Were Chrysler Voyagers ever sold in the UK (earlier models)?

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Bas, Jan 28, 2005.

  1. Bas

    Bas Guest

    Hi,

    I am planning on settling in the UK later in the year (moving from Holland)
    and am thinking of taking a 1995 Chrysler Voyager (2.5 td) with me. I
    haven't seen them for sale on the autotrader.co.uk site (only the later
    models) so I'm wondering if I could get replacement parts for the car once
    I'm in the UK (apart from importing parts of course). I would also need
    UK-spec headlamps for it (for driving on the left-hand side of the road) and
    they will of course be impossible to find if the '95 Voyagers weren't built
    to UK specs (I do hope I'm wrong).

    Many thanks in advance for your help.

    Cheers,

    Bas
     
    Bas, Jan 28, 2005
    #1
  2. Nope, you're right -- there were no pre-'96 ECE-RHD Chrysler minivans
    sold, and UK-spec headlamps do not exist for them. The powertrain is
    pretty much the same on the turbodiesel 2.5s early/late, so that won't
    make much of a problem, but the headlamps will trip you up; MoT no longer
    accepts headlamp masking tape strips as legal for permanent registration,
    it's only legal for tourists. You could exploit a loophole in MoT's SVA
    regulations and install the US-model headlamps, which are considered
    acceptable as "neutral-dip" 'cos they don't have a beam upsweep on either
    side.

    Contact me for more information, www.danielsternlighting.com

    -DS
     
    Daniel J. Stern, Jan 28, 2005
    #2
  3. Bas

    David Guest

    I don't see a problem, with getting parts, as they will be supplied from the
    parts depot from Graz, or UK. What is the difference with the headlights? I
    don't understand why they would be different for driving on the other side
    of the road.
     
    David, Jan 28, 2005
    #3
  4. Bas

    KaWallski Guest

    If you pull your car up to a wall, turn on your lowbeams and watch, the
    difference in the shape that the headlights will project onto the wall is
    that the standard low beam is a flat line with a higher illumination to the
    right side, that is where the signs would be in North America and to the
    left hand side for UK.

    ____---'''''

    vs

    ''''---____

    ....SO...

    in UK all headlights reflectors (not the lenses or bulbs) would be designed
    to work in opposite ( mirror image of North America) so that the higher
    point will be to the left, not the right hand side, to illuminate the road
    signs.

    For UK and Aus. the cars oncoming would be directly looking into the
    brighter portion of your lights if you used North American refelctors.
     
    KaWallski, Jan 29, 2005
    #4
  5. Not to mention Japan, southern Africa, Indian Subcontinent, and many more
    parts of the world :)

    DAS

    For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
    ---

    [...]
    [...]
     
    Dori A Schmetterling, Jan 29, 2005
    #5
  6. Bas

    Bas Guest

    Thanks everyone for your comments and advise, thankfully I hadn't yet bought
    one (had my eye on a '95 td model) and am now looking for a >96 model. Apart
    from new headlamp units will also need to get a replacement speedo-dial
    which includes mph scales. Funnily enough the <96 models already have mph on
    the speedo but this has been abolished in the later models.

    Any other tips on where to look out for with these cars (apart from the
    obvious service history and timing chain etc.). What's would be more
    reliable: a diesel or LPG car?

    Cheers,

    Bas
     
    Bas, Jan 29, 2005
    #6
  7. Bulbs are the same, optical lenses and/or reflectors are different.
    The UK Ministry of Transport permits US headlamps that don't have an
    upsweep to the right. There are many such headlamps.

    Don't prattle-on about that which you don't understand.
     
    Daniel J. Stern, Jan 29, 2005
    #7
  8. It seems to me that if you haven't bought it yet you shouldn't until you get
    to Britain. I don't think the savings are that great with an older car, are
    they?

    Furthermore, if you are moving for a longer period of time you may have to
    go through the 'VAT-dance' (refund in NL, pay in UK). Have you checked the
    used-car rules? For new cars you have to have owned it for 6 months and
    driven 6 000 km to import without fiddling around with VAT.

    BTW, the LPG filling station network is not that well developed here.

    DAS

    For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
    ---

    [...]
     
    Dori A Schmetterling, Jan 29, 2005
    #8
  9. Bas

    Bas Guest

    Hmmm..... VAT refund in the Netherlands could be interesting since the rate
    is 19% and I seem to remember the UK VAT rate is 17.5%. Also you have to pay
    a rediculous amount of "special vehicle tax", called BPM, which I think I
    can also reclaim when I settle permanently in the UK. A quick calculation on
    a 06/1997 Voyager originally worth EUR 32.000 tells me that there is still
    EUR2.663 worth of BPM which I might be able to reclaim (I have to look into
    that yet). That's why importing cars from the Netherlands into the UK was so
    profitable a couple of years ago, that's probably why they thought of the 6
    month ownership rule.

    If I would buy a brand new EUR35.000 Voyager today and take that with me
    into the UK, I could be getting a refund of EUR7.420. Shame I haven't that
    sort of money at the moment :(

    Cheers,

    Bas

     
    Bas, Jan 29, 2005
    #9
  10. Bas

    Bas Guest

    I just found out that the BPM cannot be reclaimed on used cars, only new
    cars. I don't think VAT will be a problem either while emigrating within the
    EU. So in short: not too much hassle, but also no bonusses :(


     
    Bas, Jan 29, 2005
    #10
  11. You are right about the UK VAT rate, i.e. 17.5%. I agree that on new
    vehicles there can be a cost advantage with a personal import from 'the
    Continent'. Indeed, I did that with my (new) 'premium German brand' of car
    in 2001 and saved about GBP 5 000 on a UK price of about 40K. I had
    expected to save about double that but the RHD price went up and UK price
    went down a bit. It was a time when the fraction of direct imports rose to
    about 8%+ (my calculation) overall and was probably much greater for the
    more expensive cars, where the saving was the greatest. For example, a
    neighbour bought a Porsche through an agency doing direct imports saving
    about GBP 10K. Not to be sneezed at...

    Car dealers in the UK were feeling the pinch, no question.

    FYI I bought my car in Germany, having checked with dealers in NL, France
    and Belgium. I could probably have saved more money by going to Denmark
    which famously had/has low pre-tax prices but it would have been too much
    hassle for me.

    In your case (used car, higher VAT in home country), I would seriously look
    at buying in the UK. Saves you the cost/hassle of headlamps etc. BTW, the
    side of the steering wheel is not an issue, for me at least. I have owned
    and driven RHD for a long time on 'the Continent' and LHD in the UK, and
    regularly drive across from the UK now.

    Under such circumstances, what is your incentive for buying in NL? Just so
    that you an carry your stuff across?

    DAS

    For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
    ---

    [...]
     
    Dori A Schmetterling, Jan 30, 2005
    #11
  12. Bas

    Bas Guest

    You're absolutely right about buying in the UK being the best option, but we
    want to bring our personal stuff with us and selling our NL spec car in the
    UK is not such a good idea I think. I have seen a couple of RHD vehicles
    over here which would probably the best option because we would get a better
    price on our current car and LHD cars are harder to sell over here meaning
    lower prices. Unfortunately the cars I've seen, with the possible exception
    of a Saab 900, aren't that practical when you want to take as much stuff
    with you as possible, hence the idea of a Voyager/RAM van.

    Thanks for your advice, much appreciated :D

    Bas






     
    Bas, Jan 30, 2005
    #12
  13. Bas

    KaWallski Guest

    Never Prattledon DS,

    Please DO read what I said and not what you imagained you thought I had
    intended to say. I said ALL reflectors would be built different, but I did
    not say ALL lenses. Reread it. I did NOT assume or pretend to assume all
    lenses would be.

    As a former owner of SEV Marschall 7" dual reflector dual bulb North
    American only headlight assemblies I can attest to differences in both.
     
    KaWallski, Jan 30, 2005
    #13
  14. And you were wrong. There are many LHD headlamps that use the selfsame
    reflectors as the analogous RHD headlamps.
    Bzzzt! No such thing. The Marchal Amplilux was never made in a "North
    American Only" version. It was made in numerous different ECE-LHD versions
    and numerous different ECE-RHD versions, but no "North American Only"
    versions. Whatever you owned, they weren't what you think they were.

    Arguing with me about headlamps will get you nowhere in a very big hurry.
    (Actually, that's not true; it just got you into my killfile. C-ya!)
     
    Daniel J. Stern, Jan 31, 2005
    #14
  15. Save yourself a lot of grief and sell your Voyager in Holland and buy
    another car when you get to the UK. It's going to be difficult enough to
    drive on the other side of the road, using a car with the stearing wheel
    on the wrong side is going to make it much much harder. If you buy a car
    in the UK you will have the steering wheel as a constant reminder that
    you are driving on the other side if the road.
     
    General Schvantzkoph, Jan 31, 2005
    #15
  16. Piffle. There are plenty of left-hooker cars in the UK, and their drivers
    get by just fine. As do postal employees in the US in their RHD vehicles.
     
    Daniel J. Stern, Jan 31, 2005
    #16
  17. Postal workers are a special case, they drive those things slowly on
    residential streets only, going from mail box to mail box. Also everyone
    knows to look out for mail trucks. It's also less of an issue if you
    learned to drive on the left side of the road, having the steering wheel
    on the wrong side is awkward but your instincts will still be correct.
    Trying to drive on the opposite side of the road from the one you learned
    on is different. It requires a lot of extra concentration because your
    instincts are all wrong. The steering wheel is a reminder of which lane
    you are supposed to be in because you can just keep telling yourself that
    the driver must be in the center of the road. If the steering wheel is on
    the wrong side then you lose a very important clue. If there isn't any
    traffic to remind you then you almost certainly are going to drift off to
    your normal side of the road especially if you've just gone through a
    roundabout (rotary in American).
     
    General Schvantzkoph, Jan 31, 2005
    #17
  18. And yet somehow there's no systemic problem with LHD cars in the UK.
    Gracious, you must be right and everyone else must be wrong.
     
    Daniel J. Stern, Jan 31, 2005
    #18
  19. The OP isn't a Brit, he's from Holland. If you read my last post, which
    you obviously didn't, you would have noticed that I was talking about
    people who learned to drive on one side of the road trying to adapt to a
    country that drives on the other. Your every instinct is wrong. If you
    walk around London you'll notice that every cross walk has a sign
    reminding you to look right before you step off the curb because
    American's and Europeans always look left instead of right and they have a
    tendency to get flattened by taxis that are coming from the right. Driving
    is hardwired into our brains, it's something that we all do on a
    subconcious level. The reason that we can drive and talk on a cell phone
    at the same time is because our eyes and brains are automatically scanning
    the environment around us without our conscious selves even noticing. When
    you have to change to the other side of the road you have to drive
    entirely with your conscious brain because your subconcious brain is going
    to be looking in the wrong direction. The last thing you want to do is
    make it even more difficult by using a car that reenforces your wrong
    instincts. On top of this the car in question is a beaten up Voyager, it's
    hardly a classic car that anyone would want to hold onto. The smart thing
    to do is to sell that piece of junk in Holland and then use the money to
    buy a similarly priced piece of junk in the UK.
     
    General Schvantzkoph, Jan 31, 2005
    #19
  20. And whom do you figure *brings* all those left-hooker cars into the UK?
     
    Daniel J. Stern, Jan 31, 2005
    #20
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