Truck horn vs. car horn

Thanks for the help in the other posts.

I have 3 more, pretty straightforward questions, I think. #2 is the
most imporant.

I have a '95 Lebaron. My left horn broke, and I replaced it with a
horn from a friend's '95 Caravan, which had been wrecked.

His horn seems louder than mine was, maybe because his was a truck,
and mine is a mere car. Is that the way it works?



(I can't compare my new horn to the original horn, because I have had
the horn from my '84 or '88 Lebaron in there until today, and I had
destroyed the original horn, in order to look inside of it. The horn
I took out today from my previous car never worked well, maybe because
I had to jury-rig the connector. Which has nothing to do with rigging
a trial jury. )


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Horns are built to sound musical notes. Typically the dual-note horn
was 2 individual horns, one A the other F, that makes a partial chord
I believe (the musical folk on the group can correct me) However, you
can find notes A, B, C, D, E, & F in the wrecking yards parts bins,
as for single-note horns in cars the makers seemed to use all notes.

It is possible to put 3 horns to make a full chord, I believe it's A, C, F.

However the problem is that if you use the wrong notes, like A & D, you
create I think it's called a dissonant chord, which doesen't sound right.
Basically the 2 notes aren't harmonics of each other, and so the horns
are fighting each other, one always sounds louder. This also can happen
if the horn is out of tune.. With a full or partial chord using the right
notes the horns harmonize with each other as they are harmonics of
each other, so the notes reinforce each other.

The horn note is usually stamped somewhere on the horn itself.

Ted

 

Is that what's intentionally used on fire trucks?

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

No.

 

Probably. There's also a certain amount of debate as to whether or not a
major or minor chord is more attention-getting. Railroad companies have
often specified one vs. the other for their locomotives (google for
'Nathan Airchime' and 'Leslie air horn' for more info on train horns and
chords).

One thing I'm convinced of is that the goofy little "buzzer" horns found
on a lot of imports are completely useless.

 

I haven't studied horn technology, but the '86 Subaru wagon I had had an
adjustment knob on the horn assemblies. I discovered it one day when
the horns quit working. Apparently they adjust the little screw at the
factory to some specified dB level. Well - I pulled both horns off and
found those screws (one on each horn), and found that not only could I
make the horns start working again by adjusting them, but that I could
fine tune them for *tremendous* sound volume - way more than the
original factory setting. It was loud!

Oh - and I would strongly suggest that anyone playing with those
adjustments wear ear plugs while doing so. What? What?

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

In rec.autos.makers.chrysler on Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:26:26 -0400

Interesting thread.

So are the horns in a Caravan or other truck louder than the horns in
a LeBaron?


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Not necessarily, no.

 

I wouldn't think that a major chord would be jarring enough. It would
sound kind of silly on a car horn. I think the standard car horn has a
minor third in it.

 

In rec.autos.makers.chrysler on Wed, 17 Aug 2005 16:14:46 -0500 Robbie

I think the Caravan's horns were marked 400 and 500 Hz.



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Interesting... That would be more of a harmonious chord.

I always wanted to connect a bunch of car horns to an electronic
keyboard. Could be fun, but I've never gotten around to it in the 25
years since the idea first occurred to me.

 

Of course, a major chord contains a minor third (it's three notes,
with a major third between the lowest and middle, and a minor third
between the middle and highest).

Which wouldn't even be a recognized interval! And, frankly, seems a
lot more likely to me than any of this music-talk.

 

I've got to believe that that was done on the Ed Sullivan show at least
once.

I'd like to see a PLC hooked to an engine and the loop closed on the rpm
(exahust tone). Put it on a dynomometer and record the sound out of the
exhaust. Program the PLC to play songs - now that would be music! I
guess you could do multiple engines and get them to harmonize.

I thought about sending the idea into Tim Allen for his "Tool Time" TV
show, but never got around to it.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Of course, like many other things they had to dumb it down since
the techs today have such a narrow education that they don't even
know that a musical note is represented by a letter. Comes I guess
from replacing music in the schools with sports. Either that or the
more well rounded auto engineers retired and got replaced by a
bunch of young pups raised on heavy metal who wouldn't know
a chord from a cord.

But I assure you, as I said already, go look at a box of horns in a
wrecking yard, particularly older ones from 'real' American iron,
and you will find them marked with musical notes. A and F are
the most common.

Ted

 

In rec.autos.makers.chrysler on Wed, 17 Aug 2005 16:16:22 -0400 Bill

The '95 Chrysler horns have a screw with a fluted head that I figured
was for adjustment, and although it was hard to turn, I tried all
settings hoping the get a sound from the original broken horn. But no
setting would work (even though the horn had electrical continuity.)

I hadn't thought about adjusting a working horn. I can see how this
might happen, depending on the details of the design. I think I'm
happy with the volume of the horns now**, but if I ever take them out
again, I'll think about it.

**Unlike those tiny cars that have tiny horns. It's ridiculous, a
tiny car can cause a crash and do as much damage as a big one. It can
kill a pedestrian as easily as a big car. Why should its horn be less
loud?

OTOH, when my burglar alarm chirps, it's now too loud. That must be
because I added a second siren in parallel with the first. I would
just use the second, that came with the new alarm and is fancier than
the old siren, but if I cut the wire to the first siren, there isn't a
lot of room to connect it back up again. I have to test what the two
sirens together will sound like. Neither are simple tones. One is
the one with six sounds in sequence, and the new one is a Psycho
Psyren, that after the first few seconds sounds like two separate
siren. I'm figuring the sound I get will be distinctive, like one's
baby's crying.

They actually provide 4 chirp volumes in this alarm, plus mute. I'm
on 3 now and I may try 1 next.

If you email me, please let me know whether
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Directions are given as if you know nothing.
There's a big range here but I don't know who knows what.

 

Helped my friend put a truck horn into his geo metro once. its great
seeing people freak out cuz they think a big rig is comming only to be
passed by a geo.

 

True. I forgot about that...

Frequency ratio of 5:4 is a major third.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/music/mussca.html