Tried and True Sludge Removal?

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Steve Reinis

I just bought a lightly-used 1987 Chrysler Fifth Avenue with only 103k miles
on the 318ci V8. It was a one-owner and owned by an older gentleman who
used it for short trips only. It runs great, but as a result of the short
trips it has a fair amount of oil sludge on the oil filler cap and inside
the valve cover that I can see.

The autos stores are filled with so many products claiming they all remove
slude and are great for your engine.

Can anyone recommened a good additive or solution that really works? I just
want to help keep the engine in good order as long as I can. (I've already
changed the oil, filter, etc) The car is in too nice of shape to let it be
a beater that you drive hard until it dies.

Thanks,
-Steve
 
Steve
Tried and True Sludge Removal?
Click to expand...

I took one like this to a Jiffy Lube. A 1972 Dodge 318 PU. They had some stuff
to loosen everything. And it did. Then two oil changes to clean things up and
never used oil again for 50K + miles. $75.00. Sold it at this time. Now have a
new PU.
Bob AZ
 
Wow - Some actually recommending Jiffy Lube? I stay away from those places
and do my own oil, but I guess I'll stop by and see what they have to offer
for sludge.

Thanks,
-Steve
 
Stay away from trying to get too far with "loosening things up too" you'll
likely kill that motor. First just because there is some sludge in the cap
don't assume it's in the pan or rest of motor. Next assuming it is. Change
the oil and drive it relatively gently but drive it so it gets warmed up
thoroughly. Next oil chang do osame and so on. Don't be "hammering it
though" until it's had a good cycle like this. Those chemicals will do more
harm than good. Their there to make a service dept. money NOT help you.
Larry
 
Steve Reinis said:
trips it has a fair amount of oil sludge on the oil filler cap and inside
the valve cover that I can see.

The autos stores are filled with so many products claiming they all remove
slude and are great for your engine.

Can anyone recommened a good additive or solution that really works? I
Click to expand...
just

Yes, motor oil.

Change your oil at 2000 mile intervals and run it long and hot, and after a
few changes
the sludge will go away, then you can go to a regular oil change schedule.

Ted
 
The 318 was a very good engine, Steve. I probably didn't have to tell you
that.

Make sure the PCV system is working, and change the oil and filter
frequently. I use
2000 mile intervals.

In my case, I was not pleased with my old favorite Quaker State oil anymore
(and have
never liked Pennzoil) because I saw beginnings of varnish and sludginess so
I changed brands. It is too early to tell, but I think my new choice is
better.

Before I made the change, I ran my vehicle about 200 miles with a half pint
of Marvel Oil
in the crankcase. I did not do a detailed inspection (did not remove valve
covers, etc) after
this change, but from the dipstick and filler cap, it appeared to help clean
up.

I would not even consider synthetics for your car.
 
Marvel Mystery Oil or a quart of ATF will help clean it out. However,
I'd probably just keep it on a steady diet of a Diesel rated oil like
Shell Rotella with frequent (~1500 miles?) oil and filter changes
until it cleans itself out because you don't want to break all that
stuff loose too quickly, you can plug an oil passage that way and
that's bad juju

good luck

nate
 
First I would make sure it had the proper thermostat and it was working
correctly. Then an oil and filter change using a light oil such as 10W30
with a quart of Marvel mystery oil added. Of course the mystery oil is
included in the normal quantity for the crankcase, not an "extra" qt on top.
Make sure the engine always gets good and hot each time you run it and
change the oil and filter at 1000 miles. Repeat the process and this time
take it to 2000 miles, noting what comes out when you drain it. Once it
looks like the sludge has pretty much been removed go back to using all
regular oil and normal intervals of 3000 miles for oil changes. It will
never look like new inside but the major sludge will be cleaned away.

I've used this method many times over the years with no problems in an
otherwise healthy engine with the exception of minor seal leaks when the
sludge was actually preventing a dry seal from leaking. This was a car that
was 25 yrs old and driven maybe 100 miles a month by a little old lady and
probably never saw a day on a highway.

--
Mike....................................................
"Opportunities are spawned from crisis"
I just bought a lightly-used 1987 Chrysler Fifth Avenue with only 103k miles
on the 318ci V8. It was a one-owner and owned by an older gentleman who
used it for short trips only. It runs great, but as a result of the short
trips it has a fair amount of oil sludge on the oil filler cap and inside
the valve cover that I can see.

The autos stores are filled with so many products claiming they all remove
slude and are great for your engine.

Can anyone recommened a good additive or solution that really works? I just
want to help keep the engine in good order as long as I can. (I've already
changed the oil, filter, etc) The car is in too nice of shape to let it be
a beater that you drive hard until it dies.

Thanks,
-Steve
 
Steve said:
I just bought a lightly-used 1987 Chrysler Fifth Avenue with only 103k miles
on the 318ci V8. It was a one-owner and owned by an older gentleman who
used it for short trips only. It runs great, but as a result of the short
trips it has a fair amount of oil sludge on the oil filler cap and inside
the valve cover that I can see.

The autos stores are filled with so many products claiming they all remove
slude and are great for your engine.

Can anyone recommened a good additive or solution that really works? I just
want to help keep the engine in good order as long as I can. (I've already
changed the oil, filter, etc) The car is in too nice of shape to let it be
a beater that you drive hard until it dies.
Click to expand...

Personally, I think removing the sludge chemically may well cause more
harm than good. The only right way to remove sludge is to tear down the
engine. And, sludge typically doesn't cause any problem unless it gets
really bad and clogs up an oil passage or some such. If it was my car,
I'd use a good conventional oil and change the oil and filter every
2,000 miles for say 10,000 miles. Then I'd switch to Mobil 1 and change
the oil and filter after about 1,000 miles than then increase the
mileage between changes by 1,000 miles until I reached 5,000 mile
intervals. I'd then keep changing at that interval and using Mobil 1
and drive that baby, unless you don't drive enough to accumulat 5,000
miles in 6 months time at which point I'd change the oil every 6 months
regardless of the mileage.


Matt
 
Larry said:
The 318 was a very good engine, Steve. I probably didn't have to tell you
that.

Make sure the PCV system is working, and change the oil and filter
frequently. I use
2000 mile intervals.

In my case, I was not pleased with my old favorite Quaker State oil anymore
(and have
never liked Pennzoil) because I saw beginnings of varnish and sludginess so
I changed brands. It is too early to tell, but I think my new choice is
better.

Before I made the change, I ran my vehicle about 200 miles with a half pint
of Marvel Oil
in the crankcase. I did not do a detailed inspection (did not remove valve
covers, etc) after
this change, but from the dipstick and filler cap, it appeared to help clean
up.

I would not even consider synthetics for your car.
Click to expand...

Why not?

Matt
 
I've about come to the conclusion you have - Just frequently change the oil,
and use a quality oil with good detergents, and be done with it. I drive
hard and drive about 13k a year, so we will see what happens...

The engine is far from needing to be rebuilt, I just hate opening a valve
cover and seeing a lot of thick black goo in there and wanted to see if I
could clean up some of it without having to remove the heads.

I'll just change the oil and leave it be.

-Steve
 
Why not compromise and remove the valve covers and manually remove what
you can? Maybe even drop the oil pan if you don't have to lift the
engine off its mounts. That will remove a good bit of sludge and give
your oil an easier job to clean out the rest of the engine.

good luck

nate
 
Steve Reinis said:
I just bought a lightly-used 1987 Chrysler Fifth Avenue
with only 103k miles on the 318ci V8. It was a one-owner
and owned by an older gentleman who used it for short
trips only. It runs great, but as a result of the short
trips it has a fair amount of oil sludge on the oil filler
cap and inside the valve cover that I can see.
Click to expand...

Do not use any aggressive chemicals, especially those 10-minute
flushes, which are known for clogging up oil passages and making
pistons leak much more than before. The safest solution is, as people
have suggested, frequent oil and filter changes, but if you try
transmission fluid (no more than 1 quart), remove it in 100 miles
(drain oil, change filter) and remove it again 100 miles later or the
engine will wear out prematurely. Never use bargain basement-quality
oil, only SJ or SL rated oil, not even for those 100-mile changes.

Check the PCV system because a clogged valve or leaky hose can
increase sludge a lot.
 
.. Then I'd switch to Mobil 1 and change
the oil and filter after about 1,000 miles than then increase the
mileage between changes by 1,000 miles until I reached 5,000 mile
intervals. I'd then keep changing at that interval and using Mobil 1
and drive that baby, unless you don't drive enough to accumulat 5,000
miles in 6 months time at which point I'd change the oil every 6 months
regardless of the mileage.


Matt
Click to expand...


I wouldn't go synthetic, as I mentioned earlier. This car is nearly 15
years old.
The clearances cannot be as tight as they once were, the gaskets not as
flexible,
nor the engine as clean.

At this stage you have nothing to gain in terms of wear protection from this
type of oil.
No reason to waste money on an engine that doesn't need it, and might
actually suffer
from it.
 
Larry said:
. Then I'd switch to Mobil 1 and change




I wouldn't go synthetic, as I mentioned earlier. This car is nearly 15
years old.
The clearances cannot be as tight as they once were, the gaskets not as
flexible,
nor the engine as clean.
Click to expand...

So? Synthetics have no more need for tight clearances or flexible
gaskets that other auto oils.

At this stage you have nothing to gain in terms of wear protection from this
type of oil.
Click to expand...

Wear protection is the least of the reasons I use synthetic. I use it
mainly for cold weather cranking and faster oil pressure rise as I live
in the northeast. If I lived in a hot climate, I'd use it for its
resistance to break-down from high heat.

No reason to waste money on an engine that doesn't need it, and might
actually suffer
from it.
Click to expand...

Whether the engine needs it or not depends on a lot of factors, climate
being one. It is easy to argue that no engine NEEDS synthetic. I think
it has benefits so I use it. I don't know of any engine that will
suffer from synthetic. You are repeating old wives' tales here.


Matt
 
Ted said:
just

Yes, motor oil.

Change your oil at 2000 mile intervals and run it long and hot, and after a
few changes
the sludge will go away, then you can go to a regular oil change schedule.

Ted
Click to expand...

I wholeheartedly back Ted's recommendation. Don't put ANYTHING except
oil in the crankcase. Use a top quality oil (Castrol GTX conventional,
Mobil 1 synthetic, etc. -see bobistheoilguy.com for ones that are
currently giving the best results in oil analyses) and do short-interval
changes for 10-15k miles. Change the filter at EVERY oil change, and if
you're paranoid change the filter and add a quart of fresh oil halfway
between changes.
 
Larry said:
. Then I'd switch to Mobil 1 and change




I wouldn't go synthetic, as I mentioned earlier. This car is nearly 15
years old.
The clearances cannot be as tight as they once were, the gaskets not as
flexible,
nor the engine as clean.
Click to expand...


So? I currently use synthetic oil (Mobil 1) in an engine with 430,000
milles, one with 207,000 miles, and one with 150,000 miles. The claim
that synthetic oil will cause leaks like a sieve is just a myth. IMO,
whether you want to spend for it depends on how long FROM NOW ON you
plan to keep the car, not how old the car is or how many miles are on
it. But also be aware that there are conventional oils now turning in
metal numbers nearly as good as synthetics, and synthetic blends are
also a possibility.
 
I've taken the advice of many folks who responded and simply changed the oil
and filter. And I'll change it again in another 1500 or so miles. Oil and
filters are cheap... rebuilding an engine is not!

-Steve
 
Steve, I hear you and Matthew.

I don't necessarily accept what you say, however.

There are old wives tales abounding, true enough. You pay your money and
take your chances.
 
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