Thinking about a 300C, 300C AWD, TL, RL. Experiences please

I'm about to buy a new car in the next few weeks. I test drove a number of
cars yesterday and I'm torn between the Chrysler 300C AWD and the Acura
TL. Here are my impressions of the cars that I drove, listed in the order
that I tried them.

Toyata Avalon. Good driving experience but nothing special, great gas
mileage for a car this size. Horrible ergonomics, the CD player and NAV
system use tilt out control panels. The user interface to the NAV system
was the worst of any car I drove. To put a CD into the player involves
having a front panel lift itself up and then having to reach over it. The
UI issues are a deal breaker.

Toyota Camry. Driving experience not as good as the Avalon. Better Nav
system then the Avalon. Not a particularly interesting car.

Chrysler 300C AWD. I drove a 300C last year but I'm afraid of owning a RWD
car in New England, they now have a AWD version which is what I tried
yesterday. The high on this car is the driving experience, it's in a
completely different class then everything else I've driven. The handling
is awesome, it's quiet and smooth and the performance is incredible, too
good in fact, the acceleration is so quick and the feel is so smooth that
you risk going to prison. With every other car I tried when I put my foot
down a little (I didn't floor any of them) they jumped up to 80MPH and
they got a little rough. When I touched the gas on the 300C I was at
100MPH and I only knew it because I was looking at the speedometer. The
other high point is that it's comfortable, by far the most comfortable
seat of any car I tried. The NAV system is better than the Avalon's but
not as good as the TL's. It lacks a touch screen and uses a joy stick
which I don't like. Unfortunately the 300C has some down sides. One is the
looks, it's a pimp car there are no two ways about that. Another is the
visibility which is very poor towards the rear and mediocre in the other
directions. However that didn't feel as bad to me this year as it did when
I test drove a 300C last year. Also this seems to be a common problem
these days, the Avalon also had a tiny rear window. Finally there is the
fuel consumption issue, the demonstrator that I drove was averaging 16MPG.
The car is rated 17City, 25Highway, and it needs premium gas. One way to
rationalize this is that I figure the 300C will consume an extra 200
gallons a year over a TL which is only $500 at todays prices and is only
$1000 if the price of gas goes up to $5 gallon.

Honda Accord and Honda Accord Hybrid. These are terrible cars. I was very
surprised, I was expecting that they would be superb. The engines in both
are very rough and noisy. The acceleration was good, especially in the
hybrid, but I couldn't get over how rough they felt. The seat was also
just terrible. There is a lumbar support mechanism that was out and out
painful even with it cranked down as far as it could go.

Acura TL. Even though it is related to the Accord it's a vastly better
car. The driving experience is very good but not in the same class as the
300C. The seat shared a little of the same problems as the Accord but it
was tolerable. The NAV system is great. It has a touch screen and voice
recognition. The car also comes with bluetooth standard. Overall they did
a great job with the electronics, these are the features that I like best
about the car. The downside is that it's a little on the small side. Also
it doesn't come in all wheel drive but my current car is FWD and it's
handled our winters just fine. The gas mileage is OK, not great for a car
this small, but respectable especially considering the fact that it has a
fairly powerful engine.

Acura RL. The driving experience is very good but overall I didn't like
the car as much as the TL. The NAV system is placed higher up on the dash
where it is harder to see and which precludes the use of a touch screen.
It does have voice recognition but overall it's a step in the wrong
direction. The RL is AWD which is it's one plus over the TL but I don't
think AWD is worth an extra $15K.

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I'm interested in hearing from owners of the 300C and TL. For 300 owners
I'm especially in if you have found the poor visibility to be a problem.
How hard is it to parallel park? What gas mileage are you getting? How
reliable has it been? From TL owners I'd like to hear you general
impressions. How well does it handle snow, 270HP is a lot in FWD car, is
this a problem in the winter?

 

Can you get the features you want in a 300 with the 3.5 6 cylinder? It will
be plenty fast, get good gas mileage and save you plenty of money over the
others. You should also drive a Ford 500 though I'm sure people will slam
me for mentioning that here.

 

The difference between the 3.5 and the Hemi is only 1MPG. Frankly the
whole reason to get a 300 is the Hemi, that's what distinguishes it.
The styling is awful but the driving experience is incredible. If you put
an ordinary engine in it it would still be an ugly car, but it would
be a slow ugly car.

The Ford 500 doesn't have a NAV system so I won't even look at it.

 

By what you have said you basically like the 300 the best. I would not buy a
car because it has a touch screen navigator, you could buy the model without
one and add your own touch screen for less than the manufacturer would
charge for one. The 300 looks like a pimp car now, because it is new and a
little odd, but in a year it will be as normal as a sunfire (over in north
america anyways). Buy the car you feel the best in, the one that adds to
your ego the most. The most important thing is to feel good about yourself
when in a car. The xtra expense is nothing compared to the initial cost of
the car. Your going to lose more in deprieciation on any car that you can
save in gas, so don't worry about it. If you really wanted to save money
you would buy a used car and save more than 5 years worth of gas up front.

BTW : You should floor all the cars you test drive. Any car should handle
this fine.

Steve

 

The Ford 500 and Mercury Montego are nice cars - the interior is very nice
and put together well. The exterior is nothing like a 300 but I still find
it attractive. It's a different kind of car than the 300C, no doubt. It
might be considered "boring" compared to a 300 but it's a good "boring" car
that should sell well. I wouldn't mind owning one myself but I'd have to
sell my 300C to get one and that will not happen.

 

You either love the styling of the 300 or you hate it. I wouldn't buy any
car I considered ugly, I'm puzzled why you would consider a car you think is
so ugly. BTW, my 300C does not require premium gas, only mid-grade. Are
you sure the 300C AWD requires premium? As for having AWD in New England,
that's a wise decision on your part. I kept the 300C in the garage here on
Long Island after the first time I drove it in the snow.

 

I have two reasons for considering the 300C even though I don't like the
styling. 1st I've been happy with Chryslers, I had a LeBaron GTS Turbo in
the 80s and it was a decent car for the money. I'm currently driving a 94
Concord 3.5L which was a wonderful car in it's youth. It's on it's last
legs now, it needs a complete brake job, probably shocks, the engine has
gotten rough, the air conditioning is dead, and I've just had the
transmission rebuilt for the second time (the first rebuild lasted two
months). I'm not going to throw anymore money into it.

The most important reason why I haven't been able to reject the 300C
is the driving experience. I've now driven all of the Japanese cars in
it's price range and higher (the RL is 49K and the M35 is 51K, the sticker
on the AWD 300C that I test drove was 40K). There is simply no comparison
between the way the 300C behaves and the Japanese cars. The TL, RL, M35
and Avalon were all competent. Their handling was decent and their
acceleration was respectable. But the 300C stuck to the road like glue and
it was glass smooth. I touched the pedal on the 300C and it was at 100 and
I wouldn't have known it without looking at speedometer. The Japanese cars
were all working hard at 80 even though the power to weight ratio is
similar for the TL and the RL. On the other hand the NAV system is
extremely important to me and the user interface of the Acura system is
much better than the 300C's. The 300C uses a joy stick which sucks. I'm
not sure if it has voice recognition, that's something I need to check on,
but without it the system will be fairly unusable when the car is in
motion. The Acura TL has a touch screen and voice recognition, it's
beautifully engineered. It also comes with bluetooth standard but I can
order that option on the 300C.

 

You should also check to see what Chyrsler puts on their navigation system.
I was in the UK last year and a guy with a brand new Chrysler minivan told
me it was crap. I think he said it was missing hotels and the like and
since he was a driver who picked up people at hotels it was worthless. He
said his cheap hand held portatable system was far superior.

 

The few times I've relied on the NAV system to get me to a hotel or
restaurant, it worked fine taking me right to where I wanted to be. I've
not had a NAV system in any other car and actually always thought that I
would never find it useful. After using it I don't ever want to buy another
car without one.

 

note - "few times"

It's a toy, like the stereo system with 11 speakers and 300 watts (the
last time I had a CD in my 300m's 4-CD changer was a few years ago).

If you like GPS, then get a hand-held unit. At least you can take it
with you. I take my Geko when I travel. Shove it between the
dashboard and windshield of the rental car, push a few buttons, bring
up the way-point I'm going to that I programmed into it ahead of time
(terraserver.microsoft.com) and follow the compass.

If you want fancy, then hook your hand-held up to your laptop running
something like MS Map-point. Will show you where you are in real time
on a detailed street map. Map-point Europe too.

Took my Geko to Germany a few months ago. Worked great.

I'd never choose a car based on whether or not it had built-in nav
system.

Give me ventilated seating first. That's what I'd be looking for.
Then laminated side glass. AND very important -> glass that doesn't
block radar signals enough to render radar detectors useless.

 

On Sun, 15 May 2005 22:52:47 -0400, MoPar Man wrote:

It's not a toy, they are absolutely indispensable. I have a handheld, a
Garmin GPS V. I couldn't go anywhere without it. However it's slow, has a
tiny memory and it's hard to read because the screen is so slow. The
built in units can recalculate the route instantly (the Garmin takes a
couple of minutes), they have the entire country in their memory, have big
easy to read screens, voice output, and a better antenna.

 

MoPar Man wrote:

Agreed! I'd never base a car-buying decision on something as trivial as
a nav system, stereo, or electric turnip-twaddler. Engine, suspension,
drivetrain, chassis- that's where to look because that's the foundation
that everything else is built on, and that's were the 300 trumps the
competition.

 

I have a 2005 TL I trade in my 2002 TL Type S, I can tell you the 2005 is
better in everyway. It is solid, great interior gets about 22 mpg in NY
mostly stop & go. My 2002 got 29 on the open road.
I simply wouldn't by an American car. I also had a 1986 Chrysler Turbo
Lebaron. I remember the ads where it out handled, out accelerated ..out
everything a BMW.
What they forgot to tell you is that the power windows would break every
three months.
The repair would last only 3 months. In between repair the windows were
duct taped in the up position so they would fall down into the doors. That's
the last American car I will own.
The Acura will feel & ride the same 5 years from now, do you think the 300C
will? What about trade in value? You can't go wrong with the TL.

 

You must have had a bad dealer and you are blaming Chrysler for bad local
service. I've seen lots of LeBaron's over the years and none had duct tape
holding up the windows. Many are still on the road.

 

That was 1986. You DO realize that was 20 years ago, don't you? How many
parts do you think an 86 LeBaron shares with a 2005 300C? And aside from
that I see a lot of 1986 LeBarons are still on the road (power window
problems notwithstanding). More than I see 1986 Honda products, in fact.

Your loss, not mine. If you want to live 20 years in the past, be my guest.

I think the 300C will ride and feel the same TEN years and 240,000 miles
from now, if my wife's 1993 Chrysler product is any example.

 

Then by all means,,buy the Chrysler...good luck.

 

Steve, You must live in a very exclusive part of town to see so many 86
Chrysler Lebaron's. But all means buy the 300C. BTW, your life is the sum
of your past experiences. Why some day you may even be married for 20
years, who knows.

 

I had an '84 Chrysler 600ES - essentially a LeBaron - with the Mitsubishi
2.6. It was a terrible car. The windows didn't fall down, but the driver's
window jammed every few months. Far, far worse was the Mitsubishi power
train... don't get me started. The chassis was no blessing, either. I spent
an entire day tracking down a wiring short in the lights to find it was a
wire in the passenger door that had been banging against a metal edge until
it cut through the insulation. The headliner started to fall nearly the day
the warranty expired. The CV boots lasted nearly 4 years, so I guess I
shouldn't complain much. But I traded the car and got nearly nothing for it
when it was 6 years old and needed a new timing chain. Step 1: remove
engine. The clearance in the car was not enough to remove the timing chain
cover, and remounting the engine required a special alignment jig to prevent
destroying the torque converter from misalignment (that happened to a
friend's 600). It was obviously designed by people who wanted it to sell and
didn't care what the ownership experience was after that.

Maybe they have changed their ways, but I'd be a fool to take the chance.

Mike

 

Or maybe they just last longer than Honduhs.

If my previous Chrysler products actually needed replacement... I
would!! (Actually, I'd buy a Magnum- I like the styling better).

Uh. Yeah. Maybe the price of tea in China is up this week... or not.

 

Wait, wait, wait... You're telling me that you're considering buying
another car from the same company that made you rebuild a whole
transmission twice in 11 years? I drive a 1994 Civic DX, which I drive
like I stole it. It has 188,000 miles and still has the original
clutch, shocks, springs, and drums. I only just recently had to
replace the radiator for $100. The most money I ever spent on a repair
was $385 to replace the A/C compressor. If my Civic gave me half the
trouble your Concord did, I would never buy a Honda again. Think about
it.

Nate