The Last Really Good Chrysler Product

Bill Putney · Oct 22, 2004

James said:
Thus the reason we, as a people, will always repeat history. We simply refuse to learn from it...then cry the blues when it does happen (why didn't the President do something?) when it's all our own fault. Oh well...hang on. Glad my commute is only 4-miles and I have a telecommute option. I can go over a month on a tank of gas if I absolutely must. Now the fuel oil to heat my house is a bigger problem!! :-(

Not to worry - help is on the way. If JK gets elected, all he'll have to do is say to Saudi Arabia "Hey guys - could you lower the prices a little?", and they'd say "Oh - ummm - OK!". Problem solved. 8^)

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Ted Azito · Oct 22, 2004

The Omnorizons were good cars for basic transport. My main beef with them vis-a-vis the VW Rabbit/Golf (early ones had Rabbit/Golf drivelines) was no diesel-unlike the VW, Ford Escort, and Shovette. I have heard it's possible, with a little fabrication, to swap a VW engine and trans in them and the little mini-pickup 024 with a VW TDi and five speed would be cool.

But they would run longer than the owners wanted them to usually.

The Slant 6, despite its three main bearing lower end, is a pleasant enough engine and it's a shame there never was a small enough, and rustproof enough, chassis for them to shine. With three sidedrafts and tube header exhaust they would be pretty swank. If memory serves they have a different bolt pattern than any Mopar V8 and to add to the misery unless they were sold with a manual there's no crank pilot hole, which is a pain in the ass to have drilled out because it has to be done on a lathe rather than a crank grinder.

The asymmmetrical XNR would make a great kit (hint,hint.)

As I remember, the Nissan SD33 was sold by Chrysler as a "Chrysler Nissan Diesel" (replete with a so-embossed chrome rocker box cover) and it had a standard Mopar bolt pattern. Was it that of a /6 or one of the V8's? These were sold as a Chrysler Industrial product and not put in cars but Tony Capana did a bunch of swaps. They suffered from lack of a 5 speed manual or a four speed Torqueflite but today that would be remediable. One of the old Valiants with the trunk lid reminiscent of a Westinghouse 45° washer would make a good host for one of these great engines,especially if someone could figure out how to get a pushbutton transmission controller to work with a four speed Torqueflite.

Art · Oct 23, 2004

Yeah like Bush solved any problems in the last 3.5 years. Give us all a break. The guy is one catastrophe after another.

Daniel J. Stern · Oct 23, 2004

The Slant 6, despite its three main bearing lower end,

...FOUR main bearings located well above the pan rail, each of which the same size as those found in Chrysler's big-block V8s, and all of which support a forged steel crankshaft (on engines built between '60 and mid-'76; engines after mid-'76 have a nodular iron crank, which isn't as sexy but is plenty strong enough for all non-race purposes). There's no "despite" about it -- it was and is considerably more than adequate.

With three sidedrafts and tube header exhaust they would be pretty swank.

For certain definitions of "swank", sure, I guess.

If memory serves they have a different bolt pattern than any Mopar V8 True.

unless they were sold with a manual there's no crank pilot hole,

False; it's there, just not fully finished out to accept a standard pilot bushing. There's a special pilot bushing that fits in such cranks.

The asymmmetrical XNR would make a great kit (hint,hint.)
Agree!

As I remember, the Nissan SD33 was sold by Chrysler as a "Chrysler Nissan Diesel" (replete with a so-embossed chrome rocker box cover) and it had a standard Mopar bolt pattern.

Doubtful but possible. The factory installed a few of these turds into Dodge D100 pickups in '78-'79.

One of the old Valiants with the trunk lid reminiscent of a Westinghouse 45° washer would make a good host for one of these great engines

Such a swap would be very much akin to entering a church, climbing atop the altar, dropping trou and taking a dump.

especially if someone could figure out how to get a pushbutton transmission controller to work with a four speed Torqueflite.

Lower the dosage, guy.

Bill Putney · Oct 23, 2004

Yeah like Bush solved any problems in the last 3.5 years. Give us all a break. The guy is one catastrophe after another.

Oh yes - I know, Art, how in a parallel universe in which the PoTUS was Gore or Kerry for the last 4 years the Islamists are all just peace and love, 9/11 never happened, flu shots are abounding, women still can't vote in Afghanistan, Afghanistan no longer produces poppies as the raw materials for it's biggest export, Kofi Anan's son stopped making under-the-table deals with France and Germany in the Oil for Food program which was their motivation for blocking the taking out of Sadam, Sadam quit offering and paying suicide bomber/murderers' families for their loving acts against innocents, the DNC recalled it's policy of routing out voter fraud wherever they could find it and, where it didn't exist, to plant the idea that it did anyway in the minds of the public, everyone is covered by free cradle-to-grave health insurance while taxes have dropped to their lowest levels ever and the national debt has been wiped out, industry is being punished by disincentives to keep production in the U.S. yet they are magically doubling the size of all their U.S. production facilities every year, genocide was prevented by the UN in Sudan, U.S. unemployment figures match the double-digit numbers of France and Germany, and Al Franken and James Carville both have viable radio talk shows.

I just can't wait for the Kerry Utopian society in which we need to pass the Global Approval Test before we take appropriate action in light of the Oil for Food stuff and absolute appalling UN inaction in Sudan (I guess they're waiting once again for the U.S. to go in and try to fix it so we get the blame for any and all problems and the other countries can continue to profit from the situation). Yes - we want a guy as President who met with the Viet Cong in Paris while the war was still going on - Yeah - that's my man for President! What a joke.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Ted Azito · Oct 23, 2004

...FOUR main bearings located well above the pan rail, each of which the

same size as those found in Chrysler's big-block V8s,

I stand corrected.

and all of which

support a forged steel crankshaft (on engines built between '60 and mid-'76; engines after mid-'76 have a nodular iron crank, which isn't as sexy but is plenty strong enough for all non-race purposes). There's no "despite" about it -- it was and is considerably more than adequate.

For certain definitions of "swank", sure, I guess.

Doubtful but possible. The factory installed a few of these turds into Dodge D100 pickups in '78-'79.

Such a swap would be very much akin to entering a church, climbing atop the altar, dropping trou and taking a dump.

I believe you are errant.

The Dodge _vans_ were briefly sold with Mits, not Nissan, engines. I don't know about the trucks. It would surprise me to learn they put Mitses in the vans and Nissans in the trucks-on second thought nothing Mopar did surprises me really. I will check this out.

The SD Nissans are very tough, durable engines with reasonable torque and are simple to work on, and weight is about the same as a /6. Why you think that makes them "turds" is a mystery. I have seen ones (actually SD22s which are the four cylinder variant-same cylinder kits, valves, pushrods, et al) that have rolled 55,000 hours in ground support equipment using only raw Jet A for fuel and Aeroshell for oil. They were getting tough to start in the cold and a little smoky but they were probably superb cores-no cracks. I'm very fond of these powerplants. Those that were cared for at all well are still powering IH Scouts.

They are not high horsepower and naturally aspirated ones will smoke a little sometimes. Power to weight isn't superb, but we weren't talking about flying one anyway. (If that were the criteria we'd all go Subaru, which has replaced tha aircooled VW and various Fords as the car engine most often seen hanging off firewalls at Oshkosh.) No one is flying any engine Mopar per se ever built, however the current production Mercedes diesel four is the core of the certificated Thielert TAE 125 aircraft engine package...

Ted Azito · Oct 23, 2004

Bill Putney said:
Please define "peckerwood". Is it like "redneck"? Or is it like art, i.e., hard to define, and you just know it when you see it.

Yes and yes.

James C. Reeves · Oct 23, 2004

|
| Oh yes - I know, Art, how in a parallel universe in which the PoTUS was | Gore or Kerry for the last 4 years the Islamists are all just peace and | love, 9/11 never happened, flu shots are abounding, women still can't | vote in Afghanistan, Afghanistan no longer produces poppies as the raw | materials for it's biggest export, Kofi Anan's son stopped making | under-the-table deals with France and Germany in the Oil for Food | program which was their motivation for blocking the taking out of Sadam, | Sadam quit offering and paying suicide bomber/murderers' families for | their loving acts against innocents, the DNC recalled it's policy of | routing out voter fraud wherever they could find it and, where it didn't | exist, to plant the idea that it did anyway in the minds of the public, | everyone is covered by free cradle-to-grave health insurance while taxes | have dropped to their lowest levels ever and the national debt has been | wiped out, industry is being punished by disincentives to keep | production in the U.S. yet they are magically doubling the size of all | their U.S. production facilities every year, genocide was prevented by | the UN in Sudan, U.S. unemployment figures match the double-digit | numbers of France and Germany, and Al Franken and James Carville both | have viable radio talk shows. | | I just can't wait for the Kerry Utopian society in which we need to pass | the Global Approval Test before we take appropriate action in light of | the Oil for Food stuff and absolute appalling UN inaction in Sudan (I | guess they're waiting once again for the U.S. to go in and try to fix it | so we get the blame for any and all problems and the other countries can | continue to profit from the situation). Yes - we want a guy as | President who met with the Viet Cong in Paris while the war was still | going on - Yeah - that's my man for President! What a joke. | | Bill Putney | (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my | adddress with the letter 'x')
|

Well stated...

indago · Oct 23, 2004

041023 1801 - Ted Azito posted:

Yes and yes.

Speaking of "peckerwood"...

http://www.arches.uga.edu/~dpopov/BigWoody.jpg

James C. Reeves · Oct 23, 2004

|
| On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Joe wrote:
|
| > He's telling you the truth. We have 3% of the population and use 25% of | > the energy. If only India and China come up to 1/10 (one-tenth) of our | > standard of living, where's the extra energy going to come from? Anybody | > got any ideas? China's economy is growing at about 10% a year or so. | | And the worst part is, it doesn't have to be this way. We could | simultaneously reduce greenhouse gas emissions, preserve and multiply | American jobs and greatly retard the increase of oil prices. | | All we'd have to do is quit buying from China. | |

People like their cheap products...so your solution isn't really viable. Even if we could get people in the USA to "buy-in" to that solution, you won't get the rest of the world to.

Actually Bush's energy plan had a very well balanced approach of tax incentives for development of alternative and renewable fuels for the long term as well as improving the supply of domestic energy to deal with the shorter term issues (that have only gotten worse since). However, the democrats zeroed in on the small piece they didn't like (the domestic supply piece) so it never saw the light of day in Congress. We'd be in a little better spot now (both in the short term and working on the long term) if it had been passed.

At one time the plan was available as a PDF file on the Whitehouse site...I read it. It was a very good well-rounded and comprehensive plan that had something in it for everyone. Hydrogen vehicle research/development tax breaks? Yep! Solar, wind and geothermal energy tax incentives? Yep! Drilling in Alaska? Yep! Oh wait...that last issue killed the whole thing!
Sad, ain't it?

James C. Reeves · Oct 23, 2004

Guest · Oct 23, 2004

I stand corrected.

and all of which

I believe you are errant.

The Dodge _vans_ were briefly sold with Mits, not Nissan, engines. I don't know about the trucks. It would surprise me to learn they put Mitses in the vans and Nissans in the trucks-on second thought nothing Mopar did surprises me really. I will check this out.

The SD Nissans are very tough, durable engines with reasonable torque and are simple to work on, and weight is about the same as a /6. Why you think that makes them "turds" is a mystery. I have seen ones (actually SD22s which are the four cylinder variant-same cylinder kits, valves, pushrods, et al) that have rolled 55,000 hours in ground support equipment using only raw Jet A for fuel and Aeroshell for oil. They were getting tough to start in the cold and a little smoky but they were probably superb cores-no cracks. I'm very fond of these powerplants. Those that were cared for at all well are still powering IH Scouts.

They are not high horsepower and naturally aspirated ones will smoke a little sometimes. Power to weight isn't superb, but we weren't talking about flying one anyway. (If that were the criteria we'd all go Subaru, which has replaced tha aircooled VW and various Fords as the car engine most often seen hanging off firewalls at Oshkosh.) No one is flying any engine Mopar per se ever built, however the current production Mercedes diesel four is the core of the certificated Thielert TAE 125 aircraft engine package...

There was a plane built in 1936 with a plymouth flathead engine. This was a PRODUCTION plane.

Daniel J. Stern · Oct 23, 2004

People like their cheap products...so your solution isn't really viable.

One doesn't follow from the other. What people like or dislike doesn't affect the viability of the solution, just its conceptual popularity. People are stupidly shortsighted; what else is new?

Even if we could get people in the USA to "buy-in" to that solution, you won't get the rest of the world to.

Wouldn't need to; the US is China's biggest export market.

Actually Bush's energy plan had a very well balanced approach of

....of cutting down old-growth and cutting down new-growth and warring for oil and burning rocks^h^h^h^h^hdirt^h^h^h^hcoal, yes.

At one time the plan was available as a PDF file on the Whitehouse site...I read it.

I'd have to remain very skeptical that Mr. Bush would come up with a very well balanced approach to energy policy unless I read the primary document. Still got the PDF?

(BTW, why have you got your newsreader set to use the | character rather than the > character for quoted text? The > character is the standard, and many newsreaders don't handle | well.)

Daniel J. Stern · Oct 23, 2004

I believe you are errant.

I believe you meant "mistaken" or "incorrect", for "errant" makes no sense in this context. Whichever of the three you meant, I am not.

The Dodge _vans_ were briefly sold with Mits, not Nissan, engines.

That's as may be, but the D100 was available with the Nissan diesel in '78-'79. I've got a contemporaneous Popular Mechanics with a road test of it, around here somewhere, and at one time was in regular contact with a former owner of such a truck.

The SD Nissans are very tough, durable engines with reasonable torque and are simple to work on, and weight is about the same as a /6. Why you think that makes them "turds" is a mystery.

According to the road test (and the abovementioned former owner), the trucks took about 35 minutes to go from 0 to 60, once you got them started, which took considerable patience. Exhaust smoke was heavy. Horsepower was something ridiculous for a D100 -- I'd have to re-read the road test, but it was something like 72BHP; totally inadequate.

They are not high horsepower and naturally aspirated ones will smoke a little sometimes. Power to weight isn't superb, but we weren't talking about flying one anyway.

Who the hell cares if you could get 22 mpg on the highway if you were doing it at 22 mph trying to lug a week's worth of groceries up a 1% grade?

DS

Daniel J. Stern · Oct 23, 2004

I believe you are errant.

I'll also add: A company in California offered a Dart/Valiant/Duster conversion using this same Nissan diesel engine from '73 to '74. That vehicle, like the factory-equipped '78-'79 D100 pickups, was excessively noisy, bog slow, extremely smoky and bitchy to start from cold.

We're supposed to think you've got a great idea here because *why* again?

indago · Oct 23, 2004

041023 1904 - James C. Reeves posted:

| 041023 1801 - Ted Azito posted:
|
| >> Ted Azito wrote:
| >>
| >>> My uncle...
| >>>
| >>> Yes, he's a peckerwood...
| >>
| >> Please define "peckerwood". Is it like "redneck"? Or is it like art, | >> i.e., hard to define, and you just know it when you see it. | >> | >> | > Yes and yes. | | Speaking of "peckerwood"... | | http://www.arches.uga.edu/~dpopov/BigWoody.jpg |

Yikes!

Some guys are real artists with a chainsaw aren't they???

doc · Oct 23, 2004

James C. Reeves said:
Well stated...

And you had to repost all of it for your stupid "me too" when you could have just said, "Moo."

James C. Reeves · Oct 23, 2004

| 041023 1904 - James C. Reeves posted:
|
| >
| > | > | 041023 1801 - Ted Azito posted:
| > |
| > | > | >> Ted Azito wrote:
| > | >>
| > | >>> My uncle...
| > | >>>
| > | >>> Yes, he's a peckerwood...
| > | >>
| > | >> Please define "peckerwood". Is it like "redneck"? Or is it like art, | > | >> i.e., hard to define, and you just know it when you see it. | > | >> | > | >> | > | > Yes and yes. | > | | > | Speaking of "peckerwood"... | > | | > | http://www.arches.uga.edu/~dpopov/BigWoody.jpg | > | | > | > Yikes! | > | > | | Some guys are real artists with a chainsaw aren't they???

Apparently so, but the artistic subject is a bit odd...unless it's the only "woody" the guy can have!

doc · Oct 23, 2004

But getting back on subject, he was going off on what the last good Chrysler product was. I'll post his answer.

You won't, though; you only want to troll. You'll get a lot of responses from this group but I'll call you, ****: Post it.

doc

James C. Reeves · Oct 23, 2004

The Last Really Good Chrysler Product

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