The DMV is so insidious. They are allowed to tax used property sales.

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by LovingPerson, Feb 24, 2004.

  1. LovingPerson

    LovingPerson Guest

    Dear all:

    Because of the DMV is such an evil entity, it tries to charge you
    sales tax on used cars. This is completely insane. No used items
    should be charged tax. I know even used guns bought at gun shops do
    not carry any sales tax. The DMV is just pure evil incarnate.

    After just waiting in line for two hours to get a simple title
    and temp tag at the DMV, I am very angry not only at the fees I paid,
    but at the attitude of these govt. apathetic workers. I would suggest
    everyone, in order to pay lower taxes, report prices much lower than
    the actual amount. You cannot fight the DMV head on. You will have
    to be as crafty as the DMV is.

    When I skirt an unjust law/policy, I become very proud of it. I
    am righting a wrong, and there is no other way to do it.

    Did you know that the DMV in CA brought in 5 billion dollars just
    in registration fees alone? That figure is a 10 year old figure. For
    5 billion dollar what does DMV do for you? They only think of more
    ways to steal your money. I recommend everyone try to steal (except
    it isn't stealing when you take back what is originally yours) back
    what is rightfully theirs in the first place. I recommend everyone
    report low low sales prices. In order to make it less suspicious,
    make sure the seller writes two bills of sales. One sale stating that
    the car needs majore mechanical work. So, for example, if a car was
    bought for $5000, have the seller write a bill that states the car
    needs majore engine and exhaust work. If there is a line "seller
    provides no warranty," it would further look more legit. "Car is sold
    as is!" Sales price written on bill should about 1/10 the real price.
    This would save you ten-fold in sales tax.

    People. It is time we all start doing something to stem the
    thievery that is the DMV.

    I know no one here can really argue with me about this issue. If
    you do argue, I will simply call you a governement sympathizer. And
    you don't want to be called a govt sympathizer by fellow American, do
    you? No. You don't. So go forth and claim what is yours and let no
    government seize your $$$ or property without due process.

    Signed: Proud Citizen (law abiding citizen--except for unjust laws)
    of U.S.A.
     
    LovingPerson, Feb 24, 2004
    #1
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  2. LovingPerson

    Dave C. Guest

    That's nothing. Try buying a brand new car and paying full sales tax on it
    right before (a few months before) your employer decides to move you to
    another state. Now pay full sales tax on the new car TWICE. -Dave
     
    Dave C., Feb 24, 2004
    #2
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  3. Now if you only knew how the REST of the government screws you even
    worse! ;-) ;-)



    John
     
    The Lindbergh Baby, Feb 24, 2004
    #3
  4. LovingPerson

    Lisa Horton Guest

    I believe the CA DMV now figures sales tax on used cars using their own
    estimated value, ignoring the amount on the BOS.

    Lisa
     
    Lisa Horton, Feb 24, 2004
    #4
  5. LovingPerson

    Mayor2 Guest

    That is probably NOT the case. States allow for purchases out of
    state IF a sales tax was paid on the vehicle. At the most you
    should only need to pay the difference in the tax, if the new
    states sales tax is higher that the one in which it was
    purchased.


    mike hunt
     
    Mayor2, Feb 24, 2004
    #5
  6. LovingPerson

    Tony P. Guest

    DMV isn't the one to blame. It's the state legislature that has
    recognized what a cash cow DMV can be.

    I too find taxation of a used car sale to be ridiculous. Around here
    (RI) lets say someone buys a new $40,000 car.

    First pass - RI gets $2,800 in tax revenue plus $60 to register it for
    two years.

    Second pass - Car is now 3 years old, maybe worth $25,000 - state gets
    $1,750 in tax revenue.

    Third pass - Car is now 6 years old, approximate worth $12,000 - state
    gets $840 in tax revenue

    Fourth pass - Car is now 10 year old, worth $6000 - state gets $420 in
    tax revenue.

    So in ten years - the state general fund nets $5,810 in tax revenue, or
    on average about $581 a year. But if you look at the value of the car
    when new you see that the total ten year amount actually represents a
    15% overall taxation rate.

    It gets worse - in RI we have property taxes on vehicles. In a city like
    Providence the rate is $73 per thousand of valuation. In it's first year
    that $40,000 car would net Providence $2,920, and in it's last year the
    city gets $438. Total property taxes probably amount to $12,000 or so in
    total.

    Did I mention gasoline? State of RI gets .38 per gallon. Let's say your
    new car gets 20MPG and you drive 20,000 miles a year.

    Tax revenue from gasoline = (20,000/20)*.38 = $380 a year in tax revenue
    pretty much for the ten year life of the car that I've detailed.
    Therefore over the ten years it's an additional $3800.

    So adding it all up we see the total in taxes paid on this one car, if
    it were to add it up:

    $5,810 + $12,000 + $3,800 = $21,610 in taxes paid. So that $40,000 car
    generated more then half it's value in tax revenue. Nice deal huh?

    In RI they'd challenge it. I know people who've salvaged cars and then
    argued with DMV for weeks over it's value for tax purposes.

    But then we have an irresponsible state legislature that doesn't seem to
    know the value of money. But again, they make all sorts of money
    peddling access to the legislature. Just go look at
    <http://www.projo.com> and read the articles about what our legislators
    are doing.
     
    Tony P., Feb 24, 2004
    #6
  7. LovingPerson

    The Real Bev Guest

    Whenever anything (except food and whatever other stuff is exempt) is
    purchased by anyone, even at a yard sale, the seller is supposed to
    collect the ~8% sales tax and forward it to the Board of Equalization.
    If the seller doesn't collect it, the buyer is supposed to send it in.

    --
    Cheers,
    Bev
    ==================================================================
    "America is at an awkward stage: it is too late to work within the
    system, but it is too early to shoot the bastards." -Claire Wolfe
     
    The Real Bev, Feb 24, 2004
    #7
  8. LovingPerson

    Mike Hall Guest

    In Ontario Canada, we also have to pay sales taxes on pre-owned vehicles,
    and no, it doesn't seem right that we should pay sales tax on a vehicle
    where it has already been levied.. having said that, it is a SALES tax that
    we are paying, and there is undoubtedly a sale during the process of
    transferring a vehicle from one person to another.. sometimes, loose wording
    is more effective than a whole bunch of small print that covers all legal
    exits.. :) .. unfortunately, the Ontario Provincial Government does not base
    the tax on the actual sale price of the vehicle.. they go by 'book' price,
    thus closing the exit that allows a buyer to get two receipts, one being the
    actual monies paid, and the other being a reasonable sum..
     
    Mike Hall, Feb 24, 2004
    #8
  9. LovingPerson

    Steve Barker Guest

    Hell, that's nothing. Here in Kansas, we have to claim LAST years STATE
    refund as this years income. Now if that ain't double taxation, nothin is.
     
    Steve Barker, Feb 25, 2004
    #9
  10. LovingPerson

    Mike Hall Guest

    Just one of the many benefits of living in a 'free' country..
     
    Mike Hall, Feb 25, 2004
    #10
  11. | Hell, that's nothing. Here in Kansas, we have to claim LAST years STATE
    | refund as this years income. Now if that ain't double taxation, nothin is.
    |

    Same in Maryland. Although the amount was deducted the previous year, so I
    suppose it really is a 1-year tax deferral.
     
    James C. Reeves, Feb 25, 2004
    #11
  12. LovingPerson

    Brent P Guest

    IL collected some sort of sales/use tax on the torqueless wonder which I
    got for *FREE*. Although I got a reduced rate because it was so old and
    came from direct relative.
     
    Brent P, Feb 25, 2004
    #12
  13. Not always true. This is only the case if the buyer is a resident of the
    state
    that the sale is taking place in. If the buyer is out of state then the US
    Supreme
    Court has ruled that the seller only is required to collect state sales tax
    for
    states that they have a "nexus" in, ie: a presence.

    Of course this is violated all the time. If I travel from Oregon (which has
    no sales tax) to Washington and buy a hamburger, I end up paying Washington
    sales tax even though I'm a resident of Oregon and am legally entitled to
    not have to pay Wasington sales tax. Most major appliance stores in
    Washington have figured this out finally and will provide waviers I can sign
    to not have to pay the sales tax on big ticket items.

    Of course, it works the other way too - because so many Washington residents
    will drive over the border and buy their refrigerators and such from Oregon
    and of course not pay the sales tax to Washington for these purchases
    because
    they don't declare them, so Oregon benefits from the extra job creation.

    Ted
     
    Ted Mittelstaedt, Feb 25, 2004
    #13
  14. You forgot income taxes, though. Each seller when they sell the used car
    is supposed to declare the sale amount as income and pay taxes on that.

    Ted
     
    Ted Mittelstaedt, Feb 25, 2004
    #14
  15. LovingPerson

    Louis Hom Guest

    And don't even get me started on the innumerable ways the CHP
    squanders those funds on "law enforcement" (asking to see if your
    registration is current when they pull you over and all that) or CalTrans
    and its loony "road improvements". What a crock *that* all is.
     
    Louis Hom, Feb 25, 2004
    #15
  16. California's that bad? Most states exempt used personal items sold on
    an occasional basis (that is, not part of a business). So yard sales
    are exempt. Cars still get special treatment.
     
    Matthew Russotto, Feb 25, 2004
    #16
  17. So if you underpay the tax, can you claim last year's payment as a
    deduction to this year's income?
     
    Matthew Russotto, Feb 25, 2004
    #17
  18. LovingPerson

    Tony P. Guest

    I deliberately left income tax out of the equation to keep the cost
    purely related to the car itself.
     
    Tony P., Feb 25, 2004
    #18
  19. LovingPerson

    LovingPerson Guest


    I am all for Oregon. Oregon is a great state, it sounds like.
    It deserves to have the job creation. That is how it is supposed to
    work. Make things easier for the businesses to survive and do it
    transactions and get rewarded. Cudos for OR!

    sincerely. Signed: Libertarian at heart--though he lives in a
    democrat world.
     
    LovingPerson, Feb 25, 2004
    #19
  20. LovingPerson

    Steve Barker Guest

    dunno. I've never underpaid. Been getting a state and federal refund every
    year for 31 years now.
     
    Steve Barker, Feb 25, 2004
    #20
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