Stripped oil pan plug

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bruce Baxter
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Bruce Baxter

I'm looking for a reality check here. Someone please help me out.

The other day I took my 2000 Voyager 2.4 in for an oil change at the
dealer (Dealer A) who has done most of the oil changes on this
vehicle. After waiting about 30 minutes, I checked on the progress of
the oil change and was told that the threads in the oil pan were
stripped, and they'd be happy to change the oil pan for ~250, or they
could put in a rubber plug for about $10 extra. On the counter was
the plug they'd removed from my car, which I visited and did indeed
verify that the oil pan was stripped in a major way. I don't like
seeing so much shiny aluminum where threads are supposed to be. This
car has 80K on it so the oil has been changed 20-25 times in the past
4 years.

Flash back about three months prior to the previous oil change at
another dealer (Dealer B): I was told AFTER the oil change was
complete that they'd had problems with stripped threads on the oil pan
and had installed an oversize oil plug. The oil change prior to this
had been done several months prior by Dealer A, so it's likely that
they're the ones that damaged the oil pan.

Here's my issue. I can understand steel plugs in an aluminum pan and
the possibility of damaged/stripped threads. I did a little research
and find that the oil pan is tapped 1/2 x 20. The oil plug removed
from my car was clearly stamped metric, and further more was clearly a
regular metric oil plug that was a bit larger than my original 1/2 x
20 plug. I haven't yet determined exactly what size the plug is;
that's for later today. I do know it's bigger than M12 x 1.5, likely
M13 or M14. The tip of it (tapered) just fits inside a 1/2 x 20
threaded hole. This 'oversize' plug is clearly NOT what I'd have
expected to see which would have been labeled a single oversize plug
for 1/2 x 20, and should have had cuts in it so that it would be self
tapping in the aluminum hole, with the same thread pitch as the
original plug. Am I right?

It seems to me that replacing a stripped 1/2 x 20 with a larger metric
plug that's a) got a different thread pitch, and b) isn't a self
tapping plug is a recipe for the kind of damage I've seen. I'm going
to pay a personal visit to Dealer B tomorrow to discuss this with the
service manager since it's their tech that caused the gross damage
that IMHO would have been repairable with the correct oversize plug
application. Someone's going to buy me a new oil pan, and it's NOT
me.
 
Bruce said:
I'm looking for a reality check here. Someone please help me out.

The other day I took my 2000 Voyager 2.4 in for an oil change at the
dealer (Dealer A) who has done most of the oil changes on this
vehicle. After waiting about 30 minutes, I checked on the progress of
the oil change and was told that the threads in the oil pan were
stripped, and they'd be happy to change the oil pan for ~250, or they
could put in a rubber plug for about $10 extra. On the counter was
the plug they'd removed from my car, which I visited and did indeed
verify that the oil pan was stripped in a major way. I don't like
seeing so much shiny aluminum where threads are supposed to be. This
car has 80K on it so the oil has been changed 20-25 times in the past
4 years.

Flash back about three months prior to the previous oil change at
another dealer (Dealer B): I was told AFTER the oil change was
complete that they'd had problems with stripped threads on the oil pan
and had installed an oversize oil plug. The oil change prior to this
had been done several months prior by Dealer A, so it's likely that
they're the ones that damaged the oil pan.

Here's my issue. I can understand steel plugs in an aluminum pan and
the possibility of damaged/stripped threads. I did a little research
and find that the oil pan is tapped 1/2 x 20. The oil plug removed
from my car was clearly stamped metric, and further more was clearly a
regular metric oil plug that was a bit larger than my original 1/2 x
20 plug. I haven't yet determined exactly what size the plug is;
that's for later today. I do know it's bigger than M12 x 1.5, likely
M13 or M14. The tip of it (tapered) just fits inside a 1/2 x 20
threaded hole. This 'oversize' plug is clearly NOT what I'd have
expected to see which would have been labeled a single oversize plug
for 1/2 x 20, and should have had cuts in it so that it would be self
tapping in the aluminum hole, with the same thread pitch as the
original plug. Am I right?

It seems to me that replacing a stripped 1/2 x 20 with a larger metric
plug that's a) got a different thread pitch, and b) isn't a self
tapping plug is a recipe for the kind of damage I've seen. I'm going
to pay a personal visit to Dealer B tomorrow to discuss this with the
service manager since it's their tech that caused the gross damage
that IMHO would have been repairable with the correct oversize plug
application. Someone's going to buy me a new oil pan, and it's NOT
me.
Click to expand...

You're right, but I'll be surprised if you win.
 
The 'proper' oversized oil drain plug is tapered with cuts in it for
self tapping as you suspect.

Just go to any auto parts store and ask for one.

Putting a larger plug in without cutting threads can cause the pan to
split so it does need to be replaced. That is usually done by sleaze
ball garages that want to soak you for a big repair bill next time or by
some back yard 'mechanic' that doesn't know better...

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
 
well you can rig it for a 70 % chance it will last and not leak, like mike
might do or you can get the correct repair done with a 100 percent lasting
durability by replacing the pan and not drip oil on the ground staining the
drive way or letting it leach into the water table
 
Bruce Baxter said:
I'm looking for a reality check here. Someone please help me out.

The other day I took my 2000 Voyager 2.4 in for an oil change at the
dealer (Dealer A) who has done most of the oil changes on this
vehicle. After waiting about 30 minutes, I checked on the progress of
the oil change and was told that the threads in the oil pan were
stripped, and they'd be happy to change the oil pan for ~250,
Click to expand...

Holy cow! $250 for an oil pan? Why don't you call around, I'll
bet you could find a good pan in a wrecking yard.

If it was me I'd put in a rubber plug than call around for a new pan.
In any case I don't see why they cannot just drill and tap it for a larger
thread, and use a standard bolt and washer. If that's impossible to
do because too much material is gone, you have them pull the pan
then take the pan to an aluminum welder who can build up the area
with a weld, then it can be redrilled and tapped. Not only would this
be cheaper than a new pan, it would probably be stronger than the
original.

Ted
 
Bruce said:
...Here's my issue. I can understand steel plugs in an aluminum pan and
the possibility of damaged/stripped threads. I did a little research
and find that the oil pan is tapped 1/2 x 20. The oil plug removed
from my car was clearly stamped metric, and further more was clearly a
regular metric oil plug that was a bit larger than my original 1/2 x
20 plug. I haven't yet determined exactly what size the plug is;
that's for later today. I do know it's bigger than M12 x 1.5, likely
M13 or M14.
Click to expand...

Your original plug was M14-1.5. Almost every auto parts store has an
oversize M14-1.5 plug made for the job, but too late for that one now in
yours, eh?

You could helicoil it to make it infinitely more resistant to stripping
by the gorillas that do your oil changes. Many times the pan must be
removed to do that to gain clearance for the drilling and tapping tools
(if the hole points to a frame member 5 inches away, for example) - some
labor costs there, but not as bad as buying a new pan. The risk to that
is getting the helicoil in straight so the gasket mates up squarely with
the sealing land on the pan, otherwise you start over with another mess.

You should be able to find a new oil pan for under $100, but of course
there is labor for swapping it. One from a salvage yard will be 1/2 to
2/3 the price, but you run the risk that its threads have also been
damaged by the idiots who change oil these days. For the little
difference in money, I would go with new and avoid the risk of it also
having problems.

My choices would be new pan or helicoil the old one (in fact I just had
to make that choice myself). Drilling and tapping to a larger plug
(M16-1.5 would be the logical choice) would work too, and it would be
somewhat stronger than M14-1.5 in aluminum, but for not much more effort
and expense, you can go with the M14-1.5 helicoil and end up with the
ultimate goal of (almost) idiot-proof threads and stay with the factory
plug size.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")
 
An aluminum pan should be able to drilled & re tapped using a larger
plug. If a proper drain plug cant be found, a bolt will work. Take it
to 9/16, get a short bolt & a gasket to fit, have a nice day. This
will be much cheaper than a new pan & much cleaner than the oversized
junk that the morons tried to stuff in there. Any foreign metal your
worried about (other than whats in there already) will be in the
bottom of the pan & can be flushed out by dumping a qt. or 2 of oil in
the top with the plug out. Good luck.
 
I second your shock at the cost of the oil pan. It's not a cheap part
because it's cast aluminum, and furthermore it takes several hours of
shop time (at 60-75 an hour) to replace because you the AC compressor
bracket is attached to it, as well as part of the front motor mount.
Overall it's a lousy design that's destined for trouble when the ham
fisted grease monkeys in the dealership get ahold of it. I'm utterly
disgusted.
 
Are you sure about the M14 x 1.5 size? I looked the thing up on
several sites that indicated it was 1/2 x 20. I thought that was odd,
given the car was assembled in Canada. I just looked it up again, and
it may, indeed be M14 * 1.5. It looks like the 95 2.4 was 1/2 x 20,
and newer ones were M14 x 1.5. The 'oversize plug' that was installed
two oil changes ago was M14 x 1.5 and this one had a rubber gasket
moulded into the head of it with a tapered tip, but it did NOT have
any cutting thread slots, telling me it was NOT an oversize plug.
 
well you can rig it for a 70 % chance it will last and not leak, like mike
might do or you can get the correct repair done with a 100 percent lasting
durability by replacing the pan and not drip oil on the ground staining the
drive way or letting it leach into the water table
Click to expand...

If he keeps getting his oil changed at the same dealerships what are the
chances they won't screw it up again? I would rubber plug it. My father
did that to a van he had and the plug laster a really long time with no
problems.
 
x-no-archive: yes

Bruce Baxter said:
I did a little research
and find that the oil pan is tapped 1/2 x 20. The oil plug removed
from my car was clearly stamped metric, and further more was clearly a
regular metric oil plug that was a bit larger than my original 1/2 x
20 plug.
Click to expand...

The original oil pan is tapped metric. The original plug is metric-I think
it's an M14x1.5. All Chrysler products to my knowledge the past 10+ yrs have
used the same size. The oversize is an M14x1.5 OS.So no issue here with
someone replacing an SAE threaded plug with a metric one.

It's real easy to strip these. I had to replace the pan on my 97 Stratus
2.4L because the dealer kept overtightening it. Even when the new pan/plug
alignment was clearly marked with white paint, the dealer routinely
overtightened the new one by 90 degrees.

Good luck.

Bob
 
x-no-archive: yes

Bruce Baxter said:
The 'oversize plug' that was installed
two oil changes ago was M14 x 1.5 and this one had a rubber gasket
moulded into the head of it with a tapered tip, but it did NOT have
any cutting thread slots, telling me it was NOT an oversize plug.
Click to expand...

That describes the original plug exactly.

Bob
 
A properly installed oversize oil drain plug or helicoil kit will not
leak. If they do, the job has failed and 'then' you need to go spend
the big bucks to some fool at a dealership that wrecked it in the first
place.

But then you would have to have actually worked on a vehicle to know
that.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
 
Bruce said:
Are you sure about the M14 x 1.5 size? I looked the thing up on
several sites that indicated it was 1/2 x 20. I thought that was odd,
given the car was assembled in Canada. I just looked it up again, and
it may, indeed be M14 * 1.5. It looks like the 95 2.4 was 1/2 x 20,
and newer ones were M14 x 1.5. The 'oversize plug' that was installed
two oil changes ago was M14 x 1.5 and this one had a rubber gasket
moulded into the head of it with a tapered tip, but it did NOT have
any cutting thread slots, telling me it was NOT an oversize plug.
Click to expand...

If this aftermarket plug supplier (mfgr.?) chart is correct, then after
'95, all 2.4L pan plugs are M14-1.5.

BTW - I really like the plugs with a rubber gasket or o-ring inserted
into the underside of the head. Soft so it seals, is re-useable, has
controlled crush, so minimum torque guarantees reliable sealing. What's
really stupid is that many cars come from the factory with that type,
but if you order a new one thru the parts department, you get the type
without the molded in soft gasket but with a really hard gasket that
doesn't seal well and temps people to really crank down on it. Of course
even if you have a good sealing soft gasket, unconscious monkeys will
try to strip the theads out anyway.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")
 
Robert said:
...It's real easy to strip these. I had to replace the pan on my 97 Stratus
2.4L because the dealer kept overtightening it.
Click to expand...

I disagree that it's real easy to strip them. It takes a concerted
effort - either using an impact wrench or putting everything you've got
into a longer than normal wrench.

I got a Subaru back from an oil change one time. Fortunately it had a
steel pan. It was so tight, I had to whack a wrench with an 8 pound
hammer repeatedly to break it loose. It asbolutely would have stripped
out had it been aluminum.

That kind of tightening is inexcusable. I can't imagine what people who
do that kind of thing are thinking.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")
 
Bruce said:
I second your shock at the cost of the oil pan. It's not a cheap part
because it's cast aluminum, and furthermore it takes several hours of
shop time (at 60-75 an hour) to replace because you the AC compressor
bracket is attached to it, as well as part of the front motor mount.
Overall it's a lousy design that's destined for trouble when the ham
fisted grease monkeys in the dealership get ahold of it. I'm utterly
disgusted.
Click to expand...

That's one of the reasons I still do my own oil changes, even though it
makes little sense economically. I've never stripped or forgot to
tighten a drain plug in 30+ years of changing oil on a wide range of
vehicles. You just take more care when it is your own car, in my opinion.


Matt
 
The monkeys at Canadian Tire on Sheppard Ave. & Leslie St. in Toronto ruined
my pan the same way. I noticed my car rocking back and forth when they were
working on it and asked the manager if there was a problem. In his opinion,
there wasn't (of course).

Three months down the road, I took it to my dealer who told me the hole was
stripped and the car was unsafe because at any time, the plug could pop out
and I would lose my oil on the highway. $250 later, I drove out with a new
pan. I couldn't prove that Canadian Tire did the damage because I was too
stupid to have the problem written on the receipt when I changed the oil
there.

No more Canadian Tire, Mr. Lube or any other chain places for me. If I get
the oil changed in one place (at the dealer), at least I know who the
culprit is.

We get too soon old, and too late smart.
 
you may work on them but you don't fix them (this post a prime example) like i do
thats why you are here getting tips on how to fix them
 
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