Side Window Repair Advice - 63 Chrysler

[RM]

Greetings...

First off thanks to everyone that helped on my previous post on finding
replacement parts for the vacuum advance on my distributor. I was able to
track down the proper replacement via partsvoice.com and now she's back
running pretty well. So, now on to the next project.

Is there a good online guide or reference for repairing rollup-windows? The
car is a 1963 Chrysler 300 Convertible. The problem:

It appears the previous owner used some cheap adhesive or something to try
and do a home repair job. I'm suspecting they used weatherstripping
adhesive/caulk to apply the chrome trim to the windows (these windows have
chrome all the way around, including the top of the window), and they used
this stuff to help adhere the window to the support channel that runs the
window up/down (manual cranks). When the temperature gets hot, this
adhesive becomes very pliable, and the windows tend to sag in the channel
and raise up crooked. I have to hold the window in place while putting the
top up to ensure the top doesn't break the window because of the
misalignment. Also, the stuff is oozing out of all the chrome trim, such
that there is a bead of black adhesive around the perimeter of the window.

So, what is the proper method to:

A) Clean up the previous job? I'm thinking plying off the chrome and
cleaning the glass with naptha, goof off, goo gone, razor blade or
something.

B) Remove the glass from the bottom support channel and clean this mess up

C) Reattach everything...With what????? What adhesive to apply the chrome
trim to the top and sides of the glass, and what do I need to attach the
glass to the bottom channel. I would think it cinches in with something,
maybe a cork gasket or something?

D) Looking down into the door, with the window up, I'm afraid also that one
or more of the support channels are rusted through and missing steel.
Something that can be easily replaced or do I need a metal shop to
fabricate?

Is this a job that an average hack like me can do, or would I be better
advised to take to a glass shop? Estimated cost?

Sorry for all the questions, but I hope to get a handle on what I'm up
against before I screw something up like the previous owner.

Thanks in advance

Robert

 

[Art]

Hopefully you will get an experts help but one tidbit that I happen to know
is that in the 70's manufacturers used hot glue adhesives in the window
attachments for some cars. Of course by now there may be better choices
available.

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

Is there a good online guide or reference for repairing rollup-windows?
The car is a 1963 Chrysler 300 Convertible.

No good online guide, no. I certainly hope you have a factory service
manual for the car! If not, go get one right now! They are readily
available from any of the literature vendors found in Hemmings.

DS

 

[RM]

No good online guide, no. I certainly hope you have a factory service
manual for the car! If not, go get one right now! They are readily
available from any of the literature vendors found in Hemmings.

DS

Daniel,

Yes, I have the factory service manual...It has a lot of information about
adjusting the window mechanisms, weather stripping and such, but not so much
general information about replacing the window glass or redoing it.

But, thanks for the suggestion,

Robert

 

[Nate Nagel]

Greetings...

First off thanks to everyone that helped on my previous post on finding
replacement parts for the vacuum advance on my distributor. I was able to
track down the proper replacement via partsvoice.com and now she's back
running pretty well. So, now on to the next project.

Is there a good online guide or reference for repairing rollup-windows? The
car is a 1963 Chrysler 300 Convertible. The problem:

It appears the previous owner used some cheap adhesive or something to try
and do a home repair job. I'm suspecting they used weatherstripping
adhesive/caulk to apply the chrome trim to the windows (these windows have
chrome all the way around, including the top of the window),

I believe the stuff you want is "glass setting tape."

and they used
this stuff to help adhere the window to the support channel that runs the
window up/down (manual cranks). When the temperature gets hot, this
adhesive becomes very pliable, and the windows tend to sag in the channel
and raise up crooked.

I'm not entirely following you here, you mean that they put silicone
or similar in the guides *around* the window? (only one I could think
would be present would be behind the vent window) i.e. part of the
door not the window itself? New "fuzzies" should be readily available
and if you're going to be working in this area you might as well just
replace them while you're in there.

I have to hold the window in place while putting the
top up to ensure the top doesn't break the window because of the
misalignment. Also, the stuff is oozing out of all the chrome trim, such
that there is a bead of black adhesive around the perimeter of the window.

So, what is the proper method to:

A) Clean up the previous job? I'm thinking plying off the chrome and
cleaning the glass with naptha, goof off, goo gone, razor blade or
something.

yes. Lacquer thinner works well too.

B) Remove the glass from the bottom support channel and clean this mess up

C) Reattach everything...With what????? What adhesive to apply the chrome
trim to the top and sides of the glass, and what do I need to attach the
glass to the bottom channel. I would think it cinches in with something,
maybe a cork gasket or something?

See above. The window ought to be set in its frame with rubber tape.
Also it may be easiest to remove the window from the door entirely,
this will involve removing the door panel. I have no experience with
Chrysler hardtop/convertible windows but in my old Studebaker the
stainless "frame" around the hardtop window is actually held together
with small Phillips head screws that are only accessable with the
window removed. I imagine this is why the PO tried to take a
shortcut.

D) Looking down into the door, with the window up, I'm afraid also that one
or more of the support channels are rusted through and missing steel.
Something that can be easily replaced or do I need a metal shop to
fabricate?

Maybe a junkyard would be your best bet, if you can find one with an
unrusted window assembly. FYI generally hardtops and convertibles use
the same window hardware, although again, I'm not familiar with your
particular car so that may or may not be the case.

Is this a job that an average hack like me can do, or would I be better
advised to take to a glass shop? Estimated cost?

Might be easier if you do some of this disassembly work yourself and
just take the window to the glass shop for a damage assessment, if you
want to go that route.

Sorry for all the questions, but I hope to get a handle on what I'm up
against before I screw something up like the previous owner.

Thanks in advance

Robert

no problem, and take my advice with a grain of salt as I admittedly am
not familiar with your particular model car. Also I imagine you have
more than one problem... I'd suggest removing the window regulator
itself from the door and thoroughly inspecting it for wear at pivot
points, missing/broken rollers (which have probably been reproduced at
this date, try Year One for starters?) and other obvious issues. The
window *should* roll straight up and down with minimal "slop" if
everything is working correctly. (yeah, like mine do, I know I'm a
total hypocrite but still... ask me sometime about piecing together
some Lark hardtop window regulators with a welder and bits from a GT
Hawk regulator... or better yet don't...)

BTW when you're done the glass will be an unholy mess, I generally
clean them up first with lacquer thinner followed by some Bon Ami on a
sponge and water, then finally with a strong ammonia/water solution.
I hate replacing glass because of all the cleanup required afterward
to actually get it to the point where you can see out of it.

good luck,

nate

 

[RM]

I believe the stuff you want is "glass setting tape."


I'm not entirely following you here, you mean that they put silicone
or similar in the guides *around* the window? (only one I could think
would be present would be behind the vent window) i.e. part of the
door not the window itself? New "fuzzies" should be readily available
and if you're going to be working in this area you might as well just
replace them while you're in there.

I think you answered it well with the "glass setting tape"...Assuming the
glass has four sides (top, left, right, bottom), the top, left and right
have chrome trim that was applied with some black
adhesive/caulk that has oozed out onto the window. I'm afraid they used the
same stuff on the bottom where the glass attaches to the rollup mechanism.
On a hot day, the glass will move in/out (towards the interior of the car,
or towards the outside of the car) within the channel that it sits in (the
channel being part of the rollup assembly). This movement is what I
referred to as sagging in the channel. If the window sags towards the
interior, then of course it doesn't seal against the top when raised. From
what I can tell, the channel itself doesn't appear to be flexing inward,
only the window within it.

I hope that's clearer.

Oh, and I already bought a new set of "fuzzies" (weather stripping door
wipes) from Andy Bernhaum, so I'm set there

See above. The window ought to be set in its frame with rubber tape.
Also it may be easiest to remove the window from the door entirely,
this will involve removing the door panel. I have no experience with
Chrysler hardtop/convertible windows but in my old Studebaker the
stainless "frame" around the hardtop window is actually held together
with small Phillips head screws that are only accessable with the
window removed. I imagine this is why the PO tried to take a
shortcut.

That was my plan...To remove the door panels where there are adjustment
points (four I believe) for the window tracking. Then remove the glass from
the assembly. Redo the chrome on the glass, then reattach the glass to the
assembly, then readjust everything for proper tracking.

Maybe a junkyard would be your best bet, if you can find one with an
unrusted window assembly. FYI generally hardtops and convertibles use
the same window hardware, although again, I'm not familiar with your
particular car so that may or may not be the case.

Good thought....I have a friend with a '62 Newport to part out....Maybe the
mechanism was the same, although I'm afraid that between the hardtop and
convertible, the rear side windows were different shapes. Maybe the bottom
of the windows were still the same size.

no problem, and take my advice with a grain of salt as I admittedly am
not familiar with your particular model car. Also I imagine you have
more than one problem... I'd suggest removing the window regulator
itself from the door and thoroughly inspecting it for wear at pivot
points, missing/broken rollers (which have probably been reproduced at
this date, try Year One for starters?) and other obvious issues. The
window *should* roll straight up and down with minimal "slop" if
everything is working correctly. (yeah, like mine do, I know I'm a
total hypocrite but still... ask me sometime about piecing together
some Lark hardtop window regulators with a welder and bits from a GT
Hawk regulator... or better yet don't...)

BTW when you're done the glass will be an unholy mess, I generally
clean them up first with lacquer thinner followed by some Bon Ami on a
sponge and water, then finally with a strong ammonia/water solution.
I hate replacing glass because of all the cleanup required afterward
to actually get it to the point where you can see out of it.

good luck,

nate

Thanks heaps for the thorough and detailed response. I'll start researching
the glass setting tape and see if it is a job I want to tackle.

Robert

 

[Kirk Matheson]

Daniel,

Yes, I have the factory service manual...It has a lot of information about
adjusting the window mechanisms, weather stripping and such, but not so much
general information about replacing the window glass or redoing it.

But, thanks for the suggestion,

Robert

Robert, I once worked at an American Motors dealership, and at that
time, most of the glass was *bonded* to window lift mechanism by a
special adhesive made by 3M. I remember having to take the glass and
mechanism to a glass shop, since we did not do it at the dealer.

On many of the early 1960's cars that I worked on, the glass was held
in place by bolts, with rubber or mylar washers on each side. These
would sometimes loosen, and cause the sloppy operation that you
described. I remember noticing that some of the *postless* cars had
the metal trim that you describe. I was curious as to whether the trim
was *crimped* on or held on with some adhesive.

Since most cars back then did not have A/C, the windows tended to get
used more and wear out more often compared to now.

-Kirk Matheson

 

[RM]

Robert, I once worked at an American Motors dealership, and at that
time, most of the glass was *bonded* to window lift mechanism by a
special adhesive made by 3M. I remember having to take the glass and
mechanism to a glass shop, since we did not do it at the dealer.

On many of the early 1960's cars that I worked on, the glass was held
in place by bolts, with rubber or mylar washers on each side. These
would sometimes loosen, and cause the sloppy operation that you
described. I remember noticing that some of the *postless* cars had
the metal trim that you describe. I was curious as to whether the trim
was *crimped* on or held on with some adhesive.

Since most cars back then did not have A/C, the windows tended to get
used more and wear out more often compared to now.

-Kirk Matheson

Thanks for the info, Kirk. I may take the car by an Auto Glass shop and see
what they say. I don't want to make a bad situation worse by not knowing
exactly what to do.

Robert

 

[Bill Putney]

...Lacquer thinner works well too.

 

[Nate Nagel]

Heh heh! Careful with that lacquer thinner. Not saying don't use it,
but it quickly dissolves some types of automotive paint. I still
remember when I was much younger thinking it just might remove some bug
guts from the hood of my first brand new car and watching in horror as I
wiped a 6" diameter area on the hood all the way down to the primer in
less than a second.

Yikes!

I have to admit, I'm a clean parts kind of guy. You should see the rear
axle under my Lark... I've eaten off dirtier plates. When I work on
something, I want it to have a uniform, painted (or not, as appropriate)
grease/oil/dirt free surface when I'm finished. I mean, otherwise,
someone might look under there and go "you swapped *that* dirty old
thing in and didn't even bother to clean it up some?" and that would
just be too embarassing for words. Therefore my two favorite chemicals
in the whole world are lacquer thinner and Berkebile 2+2. However, your
warning is indeed appropriate, as there are a few places where their use
is not appropriate, as you found <G>

nate