Shop Manual & Parts Manual on CD-ROM Standard Equipment

A new Federal regulation to make MANDATORY as standard equipment the
service and parts manuals on CD-ROM is long overdue.

Along with your owner's manual, these CD-ROMs must go with every new car.
They will fit compactly in pockets in the cover of the owner's manual.

Why is this so vitally important? If you need emergency or elective
repairs by an independent service facility, any competent technician will
find the information he needs to make a time-efficient, economic repair.
Without them, he is dead in the water in most instances. Also, after
diagnosing the problem, he will be able to order the exact part(s) required
by fax or telephone, eliminating ambiguity and saving much time and money
for all parties.

Motor's Manual, Haynes, Glenn's, etc. do not provide the wealth of in-depth
service information that the factory manuals do. There is no substitute
for a genuine F.S.M. and P.M.

Presently, one can purchase service manuals at high cost but few owners do
and thus are not available when needed. Please note that GM does not offer
factory parts manuals for sale at any price. CD-ROM's cost only pennies to
produce; they will add negligible cost to a new car. True, they cost a lot
to create, but they are already created for use by the dealerships; to give
them away per regulation would add only the cost of the actual CD-ROM's,
which everybody knows the blanks cost about 25 cents retail.

In the meantime, buy or ask for them free of extra charge, both the service
manual and parts manual on every new car you buy. Do not patronize any car
manufacturer who cannot supply both; ie, GM.

 

Can you please give us more info on the federal law, like the bill # or
at least name?

Jeff

 

gee i get copies from the techs i know at the local dealers. they just burn
ones for me

 

Gee... You mean your hot-shot independant shop won't even pop for
service maunals? Sounds like a classy joint!

 

There isn't one. This is either:

1. The wet dream of a clueless individual.
2. Another trolling attempt through an anonymous remailer.

 

You don't get it. There is no federal law. He's just spouting off what he
thinks would be
a good idea. It is an idea, of course, that a lot of other people have
already thought of.

Ted

 

At this link, you can purchase, affordably, a CD with info about factory
service tips and Technical Service Bulletins and Recalls for any car. Right
decent info for the diy'er. s

 

If the info. is not right out of the FSM, it's probably worthless. If
the schematics are like what's in all aftermarket manuals, they are
worthless (i.e., a "typical" schematic being used on a specific vehicle
is about as useful as using a "typical" any old road map to go from one
specific location to another.

Can you tell us that the scehmatics are exactly what's in the FSM for
the exact year and vehicle?

*IF* the procedural info. is right out of the FSM, how complete is it?
(Alldata falls short in this area - the info. that is there *is* out of
the FSM, but it is not anywhere near complete).

With AllData, you get complete, accurate schematics, access to full
TSB's, and procedural info. (although admittedly incomplete) right out
of the FSM for a better price: 1st vehicle is $25 for a year, vs. $30.
2nd vehicle (or any renewals) are $15 for a year for the same price that
that company gives for only a month! Unless the schematics are complete
and accurate and the repair procedure info. is a lot more complete than
AllData's, that's not a very good value.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Hi!

Why is this the case?

I ask out of pure curiosity and the hope that you (or anyone else) might
have an idea or even know the exact reason.

William

 

Thanks, Bill for all the enlightenment. No, I cannot, and will not
attempt to, tell you any of the answers you queried me on. I only Googled
for any helpful info for the OP and found and quit searching when this
product showed its head, be it pretty or ugly. And I am not trying to sell
anything, just help. And I never said it was a good value--don't believe
anyone attempting to sell or sway another would describe the product as "
Right decent info for the diy'er". The OP wanted info on TSBs, and this
*says* it furnishes that: and before being asked, NO I cannot & would not
guarantee it has even ONE TSB, and much less would I guarantee a more nearly
complete list of TSBs or schematics than AllData. Heck, it could all be
merely a scam!
It seems you have found for him a better product for the money than the
one I furnished. Good going! I'm happy you did and I'm sure the OP does
too. I felt that with my furnishing one it could motivate him to search for
more help now knowing some is available. After all, SOME help would have to
be superior to NO help. Thanks, Bill, for furnishing an even superior
product for him. Had my Googling lead me to AllData first, that's the one
I'd have sent him. With one of these--or maybe he will find an even better
one--he should be armed with access to some of the TSBs and Recalls--and you
can be sure to tell him that neither the TSBs or Recalls are guaranteed
complete and up to date. Should he wonder why, I'm sure you could also
explain to him that both new TSBs and Recalls could be issued just moments
after the (AllData, Mitchell, or whomever sells in this aftermarket field)
latest version of their product was "completed"; all due to the fact that
they both are on-going processes.
BTW: I have friends using each of the 2 you and I discussed. I've also
found, like you mentioned, that some of their info is only just a little
better than Chilton's & nowhere nearly as good as service manuals. I
presently have a subscription to one of the 2 discussed and have excellent
help, at times. But, I have been greatly disappointed in the mediocrity of
some of their info --some of it is so limited that you and I each likely
have imprinted in our minds a better coverage than they sometimes offer.
For COMPLETE coverage of some topics, I immediately bypass my computer
repair program and go directly to a friend at the Caddy-Chev dealership
where I feel pretty confident I can get all the needed info from shop
manuals in one trip; same with the service mgr. at the Pont-Buick-GMC and
the Honda d'ships; and with a lesser relationship but still obtainable
invaluable info from the Ford, the Chrysler, the Mazda, Toyota, & Nissan
stores.
The OP had a good suggestion: putting the service/shop manuals on CD (or
DVD). Man, I'd love to have access to those. The idea of putting parts and
part-numbers on CD, though, may not work so well & might present more
problems if every Bill, Sam, and George tried to take an order we compiled
to the parts dept--any novice ever having tried to look up p#s (in a
collision guide)needed for a wrecked car should attest to this confusing
project as he tries to get each piece he needs w/out getting MORE than he
needs. He may even waste valuable hours on something as simple as trying to
buy just one outside front door handle for a Taurus that uses the 'keypad
entry' system. Altho' he needs just the broken one, he's gotta buy both: &
nobody, I guess, changes the good side! --make sense???
Gonna call it a night. Should you ever find the shop/manuals on CD,
PLEASE let me know. I'll do the same. And when it comes to our shelling
out the $, if you'll find the best deal, I'll order them, let you get
copies, & we'll split the cost!!! Have a good, restful night (which is
better than a "right decent nite's sleep": there IS a difference!). sam

 

Because the FSM is written by a close approximation to the people who
designed the procedure in the first place. Other sources are written
by close approximations to chimpanzees who once saw the procedure done
on a different vehicle, for a different year, on an engine that might
have been of the same family as the one you're working on.

I expect doing a search on "chilton" or "haynes" on google groups for
this newsgroup would give a better explanation. Most of the posts
will (I expect) take the form "my X manual said to remove the
framizatt and I can't find it. What do I do?"

The exact reason (when I say it, over and over) is my own experience.
I've bought non-OEM manuals before I knew the sources for the real
ones. I've found inexplicable gaping holes in the real ones, but not
to anything like the level of stupid inaccuracy of the others.

 

Sorry if I came across as critical (of you). You have a close place in
my heart - I have a brother named Sam.

The product you linked may be just as good as AllData - I don't know. I
just know that anythiung I've ever seen (Chiltons, Haynes) not taken
right from the FSM is, 9 times out of 10, inaccurate to the point of
almost being fraudulent (schematics and repair procedures - like
describing replacing a timing belt on a particular engine, and the
procedures and illustrations being of a totally different engine nothing
like the one than what came in the car).

I have AllData for most of my personal vehicles *and* an FSM for each.
If it wasn't for the TSB's (which are BTW complete and constantly
updated as new ones come out - can't do that on a CD) and the actual
complete set of schematics (again right out of the FSM) provided by
AllData, I'd say they would be a waste of money (referring to the
somewhat accurate but incomplete other information - such as procedures
and descriptive "how does it work" and "where is it located" type of
stuff - (not) included in their subscription).

I do have complete FSM's in pdf format for a couple of my LH vehicles
stored on my hard drive.

Night night.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

That's pretty much it. The last straw for me was, after I had been
burned a couple of times with Haynes manuals "typical" schematics and I
had promised myself never to buy another one, I cheaped out and got
Haynes for a used car we got for my daughter. Long story short, I ended
up replacing a perfectly good factory alternator with an always inferior
aftermarket rebuilt because the "typical" schematic in the Haynes did
not show a MegaFuse hidden in the hot wire going to the alternator that
had fractured (not blown, but mechanically fractured). Inferior rebuilt
alernator cost $260. An FSM would have cost under $100. So did I save
money on the $13 Haynes manual? You do the math.

Also - that schematic wasn't even "typical" - there was not a single
vehicle of that model of any year ever produced without that fuse that
was left out of the schematic. So it wasn't even "typical".

The next day, I ordered an FSM for the car.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Which, by the way, I have also found to be inadequate and inaccurate
in many cases. Certainly worlds better than the generic stuff, though.
Even my 2006 Grand Prix owner's manual has a woefully incorrect
procedure for replacing the cabin air filter.

 

That's true. I have said here and on other forums that the Ford and GM
FSM's that I have owned or used for my personal and acquaintances'
vehicles were woefully inferior to the FSM I have for the Chrysler LH
car (probably the Ford was the worst of the three - still better than
aftermarket manuals, but not by much - it was a Ford that that
fuse/alternator issue was on, and the FSM *did* show that fuse in the
schematics, but the repair and other info. in that manual was absolute
crap).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')