Recommendations for rotors/pads?

Does anyone have any recommendations for pads and rotors for Voyagers? I
expect my Voyager's front pads to wear out soon (in fact, I'm surprised
they have not already) and thinking about buying ahead, instead of a dash
to the local store and getting whatever they have in stock.

I have experienced very bad brake fade several times with this van
(Grand Voyager with the smaller wheels) -- the smaller wheel size means
smaller rotors/pads (I assume), which would make it more likely to suffer
from fade -- so resistence to fade is important.

The brakes also seem to develop a slight pulsing after about 25k miles of
use on rotors (I've noticed this on rental Voyagers/Caravans so it
appears to be a design problem) -- if possible I would like to avoid this.

 

Well, this seems to be a religious argument in this group. But I will throw
out
the following statements of fact for you to chew on and think about:

1) Driving habits are at least as important if not more so than pad material
in determining whether brakes will fade. If you are the type that likes to
descend long 6% grade hills with a 5000 pound trailer, riding the brakes
all the way down, your going to have problems.

2) Even though rear brakes do not have the same stopping power the front
brakes
do, if the rear brakes are worn or have problems, you will burn up your
front
brakes lightening quick.

3) Moisture in the brake lines will flash to steam under the high pressures
of
braking and will reduce the pad pressures and can make it feel as though the
brakes have faded. Make sure your system is flushed.

4) Pulsing is usually caused by rotor warp. Rotor warp can be caused by
heat - such as riding the brakes, or a caliper piston not retracting, it can
also be caused by cheap rotors that have less uniformity of the metal in the
rotor, and it can be caused by uneven torque on the lugnuts (such as if they
use an impact gun to tighten down the wheels rather than a torque wrench)

5) A harder pad will wear slower, but in exchange for increased rotor wear.
A
softer pad will wear faster and has to be replaced more often, but the rotor
will
wear less.

Ted

 

This is certainly true, but I've read a number of articles lately that
suggest that this isn't the most common cause of brake pulsing. The
theory is that differential friction around the surface of the rotor is
the culprit, this being caused by uneven transfer of brake pad material
to the rotor. One cause being getting the brakes really hot and then
coming to a stop and holding on the brakes pretty hard. I know I've
seen such "pad shadows" on my brakes before when I rotate my tires.

One of my vans developed a pulse recently and not too long after putting
on brand new (American made) rotors and pads. So, to test this theory,
I went out and made several very hard stops as the writer of one of
these articles suggested. I then was careful not to apply the brakes
again until I'd driven enough to let the brakes cool down. Presto, the
pulse was gone. If the rotors had really been warped, this wouldn't
have happened.

So, I must admit that I'm beginning to think this theory has substance
as compared to my long held belief that rotor warp really was the
culprit. I still believe that both can occur, so I'm careful to torque
the lug nuts evenly, etc., but I do believe now that there is more than
one cause of brake pulse with disk brakes.


Matt

 

This is certainly true, but I've read a number of articles lately that

Exactly my experience as well. I recommend going to Tirerack and ordering a
pair of Brimbo front rotors and a pair of ceramic pads. Seat the pads as
noted above and you will be a happy camper. (The ceramic pads will keep your
front wheels from turning black from pad dust and will be kind to your new
rotors). It did the trick for me with my 96 Town & Country and the pads were
like magic in my 94 T&C.

Richard.

 

I have come to the same conclusions, Matt. In addition, I am absolutely
convinced that the pad material has a lot to do with this problem. I
also believe that not all ceramic pads are created equal. The
definition of "ceramic pad material" is not controlled or bounded.
Saying you're using ceramic pads is like saying you're eating wheat bread.

Tough indepentendly coming to conclusions about pad filming problems, a
Frozen Rotor (Diversified Cryogenics) engineer told me that they
sometimes get their rotors returned by customers with complaints that
they are warped. When they study the returned rotors, they invariably
find that the rotors were not at all warped, but that there was a very
uneven distribution of pad filming - more ofen than not, the problem is
ceramic pads (presumably of certain brands). He said it had gotten to
the point that they considered refusing to sell there rotors for certain
problem appliations without also selling a certain type of pad with them
that they know does not have these issues.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

This would seem to agree with my experience, that the pulsing seems to
come and go -- which is hard to correlate with warped rotors.

OK, so I take it that Brembo rotors are recommended, but I also see plenty
of ceramic pads at tirerack.com -- so which are the good brands? and what
about EBC "Greenstuff" pads?

 

And which pad would that be?

Matt

 

Dang - I must've been in a hurry when I typed that - *way* too many
typos!

The pads would be the Performance Friction Z-Rated. I am using those
with the Frozen Rotors. I've posted about both the pads and rotors before.

OK - proof-reading before hitting send. OK - hitting send - now...

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

OK, so I take it that Brembo rotors are recommended, but I also see plenty

Akebono makes a superb ceramic pad. They are the OEM supplier to Toyota, a
company that fits ceramic pads at the factory. I have had good performance
with their pads combined with Brembo rotors. Too bad no one makes rear
ceramic pads for the PT Cruiser.

Richard.