Recharging A/C on 1999 Dodge Caravan

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by epeart, Jul 21, 2005.

  1. epeart

    epeart Guest

    I tried Recharging the A/C on my girlfriends 1999 Dodge Caravan Sport today I got the kit " charger hose and 3 cans of 134a. my end result It blows nothing but hot air. It was cooler before I tried to recharge it. It would only take half a can and it's the small can so decided to bleed out what was left inthe line by pressing in the valve it still would only take half and it is the right connection it can only fit one way am I doing something wrong? please help before my girlfriend kills m
     
    epeart, Jul 21, 2005
    #1
  2. Yes, you're doing something wrong: Fuckin' around with your girlfriend's
    vehicle without knowing what you're doing.
    Count yourself fortunate you didn't kill yourself; A/C work is dangerous
    when you don't know what you're doing or how to do it.
     
    Daniel J. Stern, Jul 21, 2005
    #2
  3. epeart

    Steve B. Guest


    #1 Venting the refrigerant from your system is a federal crime (a
    violation of the clear air act) . Even if you don't care about the
    environment it probably isn't the best idea to admit to a federal
    crime on a world wide public newsgroup.


    While you are trying to charge is the compressor turning? The
    refrigerant carries the oil through the system. If the refrigerant
    gets low the oil isn't distributed and the compressor dies. To
    prevent this from happening the manufacturer puts a low pressure drop
    out switch on the system that turns off the compressor under low
    pressure situations.

    Check to make sure the compressor is energized ( the front disk
    spinning as well as the pulley). If it isn't energized locate the low
    pressure switch and jump it out so the compressor will spin then
    charge the system. If it still won't take more than half a can you
    need to check the high and low side pressures and get back to us.

    In all honesty you are probably in over your head on this one. After
    venting the system the dryer really should be replaced and the system
    vacuumed. Your also dealing with a $400 compressor that you can
    easily ruin by adding an improper amount of refrigerant or oil.

    Good luck. I hope that couch is comfortable ;-)
    Steve B.
     
    Steve B., Jul 21, 2005
    #3
  4. epeart

    Coasty Guest

    Well with out a proper set of gauges not the one gage check method, filling
    as per manufacturer instructions, checking pressure chart based on ambient
    temperature, checking the super heat temp, a proper leak test, properly
    evacuated the system because all the refrigerant was gone or had air
    entrainment, more than likely not having been trained in automotive HVAC or
    licensed as per the EPA you have screwed the pooch and you are lucky you
    have not blown your compressor up and injured yourself. Any one of the
    above is your problem besides knowing when to quit and get things done by a
    professional.


    --
    Coasty
    SEMPER PARATUS
    (ALWAYS READY)

    Remove The SPOOGE To Reply
     
    Coasty, Jul 21, 2005
    #4
  5. epeart

    pawn Guest

    I realize every group has a guy like you, but the question still begs to
    be asked: why do you feel the need to be such a dickhead? The second
    responder made the same point without the childishness, why do you need
    to demonstrate you're a complete social buffoon with every response that
    you happen to know something about? Grow the **** up.
     
    pawn, Jul 22, 2005
    #5

  6. Hey now, don't be so hasty. Don't you know that there's an epidemic of
    air conditioning related deaths sweeping the nation? Think of all of
    the grief stricken mothers of those unfortunate tattooed, unshaven,
    snaggle-toothed shade tree mechanics, and how your callous words stab
    these poor ladies like flying pieces of R134A shrapnel. Have some
    respect. At least Mr. Stern is doing his part to help the hopelessly
    stupid portion of our society to avoid killing themselves at least for
    one more day. You should just be glad that somebody is willing to do
    all of that thinking that the rest of us are unwilling or unable to do
    for ourselves.

    Not only that, but you should observe some newsgroup etiquette
    yourself. You asked an unrelated question in the thread. It should
    have been put under its own subject line, such as "Why is Stern such a
    dickhead?", or perhaps a teaser such as "The shocking truth about Daniel
    J. Stern!"

    I hope you won't be quite so quick to dive in next time without
    carefully considering what you are saying.
     
    Robbie and Laura Reynolds, Jul 22, 2005
    #6
  7. epeart

    maxpower Guest

    Hey , don't let him bother you, its the way he was raised, Its just a big
    Ego trip for ole lite bulb Stern.
    Just because your system is blowing warm air does not mean it is low on
    freon, you could have fault codes, you could have blend air door problems or
    anything. If you system is fully charged and you add more to it, that will
    cause more problems.
    I would have the system recovered and charged up with the proper amount,
    check and recalibrate the system and see what the evap temp is after that.
    Glenn Beasley
    Chrysler tech
     
    maxpower, Jul 22, 2005
    #7
  8. epeart

    maxpower Guest

    I needed a good laugh like that today. GOOD ONE!!
     
    maxpower, Jul 22, 2005
    #8
  9. epeart

    tim bur Guest

    how about we help you before you kill yourself by blowing up one of those cans
    u have a leak and i would bet money the evap.coil is bad unless you have followed a gravel hauler lately the system needs to be evacuated then a dye added and then recharged and again checked for leaks with the ultravoilet lite at least
     
    tim bur, Jul 23, 2005
    #9
  10. Hey Steve, I just used part of a can of Dust Off Freeze Spray
    this afternoon to find a thermal intermittent on a radio - the
    stuff is 100% R134a - I guess I must not care about the
    environment? The instructions
    on the can say to apply directly to components to locate
    thermal intermittents, they don't say anything about recovery.

    I am confused about caring about the environment - the front
    of the can says 100% Ozone Safe - and I just bought it brand
    new about a week ago.

    My wife also wants to know if she hates the environment
    too - her hairspray can uses R134a as the propellant.

    My kid also wants to know if he hates the environment too - he painted
    his bike with spray paint last week - propellant is also r134a
    in that can.
    What the hell? If you vent the system down to atmospheric then how
    exactly does appreciable amount of outside air and moisture get in
    and ruin the dryer? Unless you vent it then remove the schrader valve
    perhaps and drive around for the next week with the system open.
    That much is true - if he gets a new compressor - but you forgot
    the money for all the extra parts and time he needs when he
    fragments the compressor and it dumps metal filings into the refrigerant
    lines.

    Ted
     
    Ted Mittelstaedt, Jul 23, 2005
    #10
  11. epeart

    Steve B. Guest

    You made up the "hate" part yourself. No where in my post did I say
    that. My exact quote from above is "Even if you don't care about the
    environment". 134a is ozone safe BUT it is also a green-house gas. I
    don't write the laws nor do I lobby for the exceptions. I''m just
    pointiing out to the OP that it isn't legal and shouldn't be admitted
    to in a public forum. There is a several thousand dollar "nark
    reward" if you turn someone in and they get prosecuted. Would it ever
    happen to him? Doubtful but seems kind of silly to risk it to me.
     
    Steve B., Jul 23, 2005
    #11
  12. Except that on Usenet, since it's so rediculous to forge names, there's
    no proof that it is who it says it is. (you don't even have any proof that
    this post is from the same person that replied to you yesterday, nor that
    both posts actually go to the "real" Ted Mittelstedt (whichever one that
    is, there's probably dozens of people worldwide with the same name as
    me) So I don't think there is any risk there.

    And my point also is that when the government makes stupid laws they
    should be flouted and ignored. That is what the Declaration of
    Independence is all about. With this refrigerant venting issue,
    the real truth of it is that the majority use of R134a is rapidly
    becoming all those OTHER uses, that are NON refrigerant uses,
    where it's just vented to atmosphere.

    The EPA mandated automotive refrigerant recovery when R12 was still
    very prevalent, and the typical A/C service shop really wouldn't know
    what the **** was in the system when it came in for service. So the
    safest thing was to assume it was R12.

    But that was a long time ago and this assumption is rapidly becoming
    invalid with automotive A/C systems. It is unfair to place this burden
    of recovery on A/C shops then turn around and say nothing to the
    manufacturers of boat horns, insulation, dog barking collars,
    and every damn thing else who sell tons of products who's entire
    point is to dump R134a into atmosphere.

    I'm sure you regularly flout and ignore the 55Mph speed limit on
    your highways, why is this any different?

    The other thing I find absolutely a laugh on this issue is using it as a
    propellant in asthma inhalers. Here we have this - according
    to the EPA - -d--n-g-e-r-o-u-s- whoooooooo!!!! environmentally
    hazardous refrigerant - and sick people with asthma are squirting it
    into their lungs!!!


    Ted
     
    Ted Mittelstaedt, Jul 24, 2005
    #12
  13. epeart

    Bob Guest

    This explains alot about the issue. The thing I don't understand is how
    freeze spray (a pinpoint refrigerant) isn't considered a refrigerant. Of
    course, dustoff would then become a refrigerant if inverted and used like
    freeze spray.

    Handling HFC-134a
    Venting HFC-134a Refrigerant
    Section 608 of the Clean Air Act prohibits releasing HFC-134a into the
    atmosphere. The prohibition on venting HFC-134a has been in effect since
    November 1995.

    Section 609 Regulatory History
    In March, 1996, EPA proposed a rule to require recycling of HFC-134a. The
    rule proposed standards for recover-only and recover/recycle equipment and
    rules for training and testing technicians to handle this equipment. EPA
    requested comments from the public about this proposed rule, and, after
    reviewing the comments, published a final rule on December 30, 1997. This
    final rule will become effective on January 29, 1998. For more information
    about this rule, see the fact sheet "Summary of Final Rule Governing
    Substitutes for CFC-12 Refrigerant in Motor Vehicle Air Conditioners"
    available through the Hotline and the web site.

    Approved Equipment
    Technicians who repair or service HFC-134a MVACs must recover the
    refrigerant and either recycle it on-site, or send it off-site to a
    reclamation facility so that it may be purified according to ARI Standard
    700. Technicians must use EPA-approved equipment to perform the refrigerant
    recovery and recycling. Recover/ recycle equipment cleans the refrigerant so
    that oil, air and moisture contaminants reach acceptably low levels. A list
    of approved recover/recycle and recover-only equipment is available from the
    Hotline and the web site listed above. Note that certain EPA-approved models
    can recycle both CFC-12 and HFC-134a refrigerants.

    Doesn't matter.... The EPA says....
    There is NO R134a in ANY hairspray.
    There is NO R134a in ANY spray paint.
    BTW: in the links above, the EPA mentions that they are contemplating
    restricting sales of HFC 134a.
     
    Bob, Aug 1, 2005
    #13
  14. Freeze spray isn't considered a refrigerant because of a political decision
    made by the EPA that has nothing whatsoever to do with science.

    Bob, I cannot believe that you live in the United States and are a grown
    adult and still don't understand how government works. All government
    beaucracies constantly work to self-preserve. They do this by constantly
    working to expand their sphere of influence.

    The EPA is a beaucracy and right now they have power over AC
    refrigerant servicing that they obtained a decade ago when the effects of
    ozone damage by chlorinated refrigerants were extremely obvious to
    everyone, and extremely provable. We as a people in our fear gave them
    this power.

    Fast forward 10 years and now that the world has banned chlorinated
    refrigerant production, it is only a matter of time before all chlorinated
    refrigerants and other gasses leak away and complete their ozone damage.
    Then the Earth's natural processes will begin to heal the ozone layer and
    when that happens the entire reason for the EPA having control over
    AC refrigerant service will disappear. The EPA's beaucracy knows this
    and so as normal beaucracies do is moving to self-preserve by finding
    another scarecrow to use to fight off attempts to take away it's
    now-unnecessary
    control over AC servicing. That scarecrow is global warming and the
    EPA is claiming R134a refrigerant leaks are contributing to it, thus they
    must
    retain their power over AC servicing, as well as the beaucracy that
    exists to administer this.

    This is not a scientific finding by the EPA (that R134a refrigerant has
    anything to do with global warming) It is purely a political finding.
    Global warming makes a perfect scarecrow since because while
    scientists just about all agree that it exists, nobody really knows
    for sure what the real causes are. Until the research is completed
    that identifies those causes, anybody can say that any possible
    human activity they don't understand or don't like, from AC
    servicing to farting cows, is a cause and thus must be regulated.

    Industry knows this, and the EPA knows that industry knows this.
    Therefore as new uses for R134a are proposed and put into practice
    the EPA cuts deals with industry. They agree to ignore use of R134a
    in products like freeze spray, dust off spray, dog barking collars,
    asthma inhalers, insulation, and so on. In exchange for not making
    trouble for industry, industry agrees to ignore the EPA's control over
    AC servicing.

    Government has a long, long history of making scientific decisions
    that are based on politics, and not science. They did it in the bad old
    days when they agreed that Negros were genetically inferior to
    whites. They did it during the Scopes monkey trial when they agreed
    that evolution wasn't scientific. They did it during WW2 when they
    agreed to inter Japanese Americans. They did it during the 70's when they
    kept adjusting forest statistics to continue to permit logging companies
    to cut old growth until there isn't any left today. They did it during the
    80's when they agreed that damming rivers didn't have anything to do
    with destroying fish runs. They did it during the 90's when they
    agreed that air bags are just as safe as seat belts. They are doing it
    today when they pass laws allowing people to be charged with murder
    for killing fetuses who have not yet developed into babies who have any
    measurable brain activity, but who happen to be inside the wombs
    of mothers who are murdered.

    If the EPA really wanted to make a difference they would be focusing
    on the more likely causes of global warming - such as combustion - and
    moving to limit combustion by such things as raising fuel efficiency
    standards for automobiles. Instead, they pussy foot around the elephants
    in the room while attacking the mice with a vigor.
    But it DOES matter.

    If Joe repairs an A/C system in a motor vehicle in his garage by releasing
    a pound of R134a, he is extending the usable life of the vehicle. Suppose
    he
    extends that life by 2 years.

    That is a ton's less of steel production that the world needs for those 2
    years
    because Joe isn't replacing that car with a new one. A new car that to
    produce, will emit far, far more damaging pollution than the release of
    R134a will.

    One of the side effects of the throwaway society is that we are moving into
    a model of shorter vehicle lifetimes. This is great for the car companies
    who get to produce more and more cars every year. It is terrible for the
    environment because more and more production means more and more
    pollution.

    The average MPG of cars has barely increased in over 25 years. Thus
    the argument that newer cars emit less pollution simply so
    we should all throw away our old cars to save the environment doesen't wash.
    They are still burning the same amount of gas per mile and the law of
    diminishing returns means that eventually the pollution output of
    new vehicles will be the same as old, as long as the MPG stays the
    same.

    So, ultimaately this comes down to do you want to save the environment
    or follow the law. Sure, if a
    vehicle owner has the money it is better for the environment if they
    pay an AC shop to properly reclaim the R134a. But if the vehicle
    owner doesen't have the money to pay a repair shop - and AC work
    is incredibly expensive - it is better for the environment if they
    fix the AC themselves and dump R134a and keep the car for a few
    more years, than haul it off the a wrecker because it's undrivable. And in
    many areas of the country, AC isn't just an option, it means the
    difference between a vehicle that is drivable, and one that isn't.
    The EPA would have restricted sales of 134a back when it was
    developed if they had had the political ability to do so. They didn't then
    and there is even less chance that they will now. Every time the price
    rises on a can of R134a, the money that industry gets for keeping R134a
    available off the shelf rises, and that makes it harder and harder to go
    up against the industry lobby.

    Ted
     
    Ted Mittelstaedt, Aug 3, 2005
    #14
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