reasons for trasmission failure

For the experts out there, why has the A604 or 41ET has had so many failures
.. What is the main reason. And why so many years with the same problems,
what is so hard of correcting it, especially after 10 years. I understand
one to have problems but after a few complains I imagine they would correct
it. What is so different of this from the other brands( GM, FORD). Is the
tranny any different on the 2003 Caravan as I am thinking of getting one.
Thanks in advance

 

I think the problems were fixed long ago. My 1996 has 141,000 miles on
the tranny and it is still going strong. I just bought a 2003 and am
not worried about the tranny. I think you are playing an old tape...


Matt

 

My 96 Town and Country with about 146,000 miles just developed a cracked
case because of a loose bell housing pin. The local transmission places tell
me they see this all the time on Chrysler transmissions. This is a big
improvement over my 92 which went through a transmission every 30,000 miles.

Richard.

 

Old tape indeed. My 1996 Grand Caravan has 96,000 miles on it, and I drive
carefully and without stressing the transmission. The proper Mopar transmission
fluid is changed at proper intervals. My Caravan has the towing package although I
never tow; ironically the package includes a transmission oil cooler. The original
transmission failed at 56,000 miles, and the second transmission failed at 94,000
miles. I am now on transmission #3 as of a few weeks ago, so stop the slurs about
playing old tapes.

Morton

 

Are you sure it wasn't a cheap sensor and the dealer might have ripped
you off by selling a rebuilt?

 

It is old news. My 99's failed at 148000 miles and while I'd prefer it
didn't when you look at how front wheel drive vehicles are made especially
heavier ones like the T&C (which is close to size and weight of a
Tahoe/Yukon, and they're being yanked around by tiny little motors with
incredibly stressed drive lines it's a wonder they go as long as they do. Go
into CR's disc. groups you'll find people with all the top rated (by cr)
famous brands all griping about failures of this type too.
THere is no magic here. We as consumers demand bigger, heavier, vehicles but
oh we want 25 mpg and fwd, and we want to tow or haul a family and gear etc.
There is NO physical way to make a driveline strong enough to perform these
tasks as reliably as before. I'd buy another T&C if I had too or GC etc.
They are as good as these vehicles get. I"ve looked very hard at all of the
and I don't see anyone doing it better.
For me personally though I will most likely go to a truely "truck based"
vehicle. Such as a Suburban or Tahoe/Yukon. BTW another thing with the
a604/41te is many unscrupulous or basically stupid mechanics/shops know only
one way to troubleshoot. Just replace it. Some claim to "build one" only to
put in a new sensor or repair a bad connection. I know of one place that
billed a customer for a rebuild and nothing more than a blown fuse. That
person will always blame the wrong thing.
Larry

 

One examply doesn't a trend establish. The statistics I've seen just
don't back up this assertion. I visit my local dealer a few times a
year and I never see more than one minivan in the garage. If every
minivan were going through transmissions every 50,000 miles or less,
every bay would be full of minivans and they'd have crates of
transmissions waiting in the warehouse to be installed. Just isn't the
case. Also, nobody would be buying Chrysler vans anymore, yet, last I
knew they were still the sales leaders. And you certainly wouldn't have
anybody dumb enough to buy a second one, yet I know LOTS of repeat
owners. I just became a repeat owner myself and now own two of them.
Show some stats to support the assertion that there is a universal
tranny problem.

The old tape comment was hardly a slur. My you are thin skinned. It
was a statement of fact. It is well known that when a person has a
problem they tell somewhere between 10 and 100 people. When something
good happens they tell very few. There have been studies on this. A
few tranny problems, especially a decade ago, got spread far and wide
and persist to this day. Doesn't mean that a few folks like you won't
get a lemon, but that doesn't make the problem an epidemic.

Matt

 

I don't kow where all these stories keep surfacing from about bad
transmissions but my 1999 Caravan has 65,000 miles and has had one problem
with the transmission - the $15 sensor went bad at 37,000 miles. Also, with
500,000 minivans being made a year, even if a small percentage do have
problems, lots of people will bitch about bad quality.

Dan

 

the tape is right, chrysler auto trannys sux it bad
96 dynasty-d.o.a. 33,000 granny miles
96 grand voyager -d.o.a. 65,000,on 3rd tranny
though i still kinda like chrysler,so when i bot my 2002 pt, it was a 5
speed...fux mopar auto trannies.

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Fortunately, the transmissions aren't nearly as bad as your spelling and
writing skills...

 

different of this from the other brands( GM, FORD).

Problems were basically fixed by 1995. Since then these trannies have been
really good IF MAINTAINED CORRECTLY (note the emphasis). What makes you
think Ford and GM haven't had problems? The current Ford automatic has
produced lots of complaints.

 

I visit my local dealer a few times a

But this trans was used in far more than just minivans, so this is not a
good way to judge. It was used in far majority of thier cars/vans, til
about '98 or so. I havn't followed it past '98 or so, and most of '98
and older cars don't go to the dealer for service, so yet another bad
way to judge the longevity of a particular transmission.

Having dealt with a '89 Van, '94 Spirit, '95 LHS, and '97 LHS, all of
which had premature trans failures, all had proper maint, fluid, filter,
and no it wasn't just a sensor, I bought the ATSG book and learned how
to test for that. These wern't all my vehicles, the '94 and '97 were,
the others were friends/co-workers I wanted to help out.
While the '97 lasted longer(90,000mi) than the '89(45,000mi, 104,000mi)
did, the '97 is still a bad trans in my book(failed @90,000mi,
165,000mi)), and looking at the numbers of various studies I saw when
working at DCX in the late nineties, all the eveidence is there that
this was/is a bad trans, just had a few proud souls and penny pinchers
who failed to see long term that keep saying they could fix the trans.

This was and still is, a bad transmission. I for one will not purchase
another vehicle with the 41TE transmission, and I know I'm not alone.

Ken

 

I disagree. They go a bit longer before failing, but they still do too
often and it's not so much a function of how well maintained they are; I
think you get as much benefit from a more robust tranny cooler than changing
the fluid and filter regularly..

 

Yes, a friend at work has a Windstar with 160,000 miles and its on its
3rd tranny. This seems at least as common with Windstars as with
Chryslers, and, guess what, Honda and Toyota have had their share of
tranny problems in minivans as well. I've heard less about the GM vans,
but that may be because there are, I believe, fewer of them on the road.


Matt

 

There is something else common here in addition to these all being
Chrysler trannies ... and that is the driver.

That is certainly your prerogative. If there really is a big problem
with these trannies and enough people like you stop buying, then we'll
see that reflected in the sales. I don't think that has happened thus
far so I don't think there is an unusual number of failures here.

I think virtually all minivans, at least the FWD models, have had higher
rates of tranny failure due mainly to them being on the heavy end of the
spectrum.

Unfortunately, the economics of today's auto industry requires common
assemblies be used across many product lines so it isn't likely that the
minivans will get engines and transmissions designed just for them and
nothing else.

Matt

 

I believe you are wrong. Unfortunately, neither of us has any real data
to support either position.

Matt

 

| Dave Gower wrote:
| >
| >>...why has the A604 or 41ET has had so many failures...What is so
| >
| > different of this from the other brands( GM, FORD).
| >
| > Problems were basically fixed by 1995. Since then these trannies have
been
| > really good IF MAINTAINED CORRECTLY (note the emphasis). What makes you
| > think Ford and GM haven't had problems? The current Ford automatic has
| > produced lots of complaints.
| >
| >
|
| Yes, a friend at work has a Windstar with 160,000 miles and its on its
| 3rd tranny. This seems at least as common with Windstars as with
| Chryslers, and, guess what, Honda and Toyota have had their share of
| tranny problems in minivans as well. I've heard less about the GM vans,
| but that may be because there are, I believe, fewer of them on the road.
|
|
| Matt
|

Apparently the Acura MDX has had more than it's share of failures...and I
hear a new tranny is over $7K on that vehicle! <whew!>

 

Ouch! The worst car I ever owned, well maybe next to worst as my '70
Opel Manta was pretty bad also, was a 1984 Accord. Rated very well in
Consumer Reports, but I guess the unit I had couldn't read...

Matt

 

The main reason is in my opinion that Chrysler went with a brand new tranny
design in the minivan rather than a tried and true design.

Now, I wasn't there at the time and I've read conflicting accounts, but what
I
have gathered is that at the time that Chrysler first produced the minivan,
(1984)
they were desperate for a new product that would reinvigorate sales. The
minivan was so different that the company wanted to go all the way and make
everything new, so they wouldn't have a bunch of armchair pundits carping
about "same old Chrysler guts new package"

It's the classic substandard design problem. You have a design here that
doesen't
really have any one thing about it that's massivly wrong. Instead, there's
just a lot
of itty bitty tiny things. You fix oiling in one place so that a part
doesen't break in
half after 5 years due to inadequate oiling, and now that that part is
surviving, another
one that was 80% gone is now given the chance to go all the way and it
becomes the
new candidate for redesign.

This problem happens with any complex product. Look at the Windows
operating
system for example, how long has Microsoft been dicking with it, and how
many
versions have they come out with, and it's still buggy as hell? Sure, if
they throw
enough money at it, ultimately they will fix everything, but by then the
Windows you
buy then will be a completely different product than Win 3.0

Ted

 

My friend got a 2003 Grand Caravan with 3.3 engine. After a few months when
he would put in R or D it would not engage, as if it was in Neutral. He took
it to the Dealer and they fixed right a way, there was a TSB to replace
feeding pump and front clutch, this also corrected his not so smooth
shifting from 2-1 when coming to a stop. Can this repair compromise the
trnny in the long run, or it is a routine fix. Inthe work sheet it says it
took 5 hour to do etc. Is this a new problem with the tranny? The TSB states
late 2002 and early 2003 got defective pumps. Any comments
Tx.