PT recalls question

Discussion in 'PT Cruiser' started by TomKan, Apr 7, 2005.

  1. TomKan

    TomKan Guest

    I received a letter that my used 2001 PT hasn't been checked for two
    recalls, one for the child seat restraint and the other for the power
    steering hose. The letter states that it will take about 1/2 hour to
    complete the inspections. However, when I called for an appointment and
    said that I wanted to wait for the car to be serviced, they said that
    they might have the car all day.
    Aren't dealers reimburssed by Chrysler for these recalls? It's not like
    they are losing money on them. If you have a 10 o'clock appointment,
    seems to me you should be on the road no later than 11 o'clock.
    TomKan, Apr 7, 2005
  2. TomKan

    Bill Putney Guest

    That type of "customer service" is why many people avoid dealers
    althogether. With the time wasted and risk of other damage being done
    not related to the repair, it's generally better to take care of the
    things you can by yourself. I've received 3 or 4 recall notices on my
    cars in the last couple of years and, for various reasons, haven't had
    any of them done. If one were to truly be needed, I would most likely
    do it myself unless the effort and expense were prohibitive, which would
    present a dilemma - but so far that scenario has not happened.

    I've read too many accounts on forums of recalls being performed to
    solve a particular problem, and the "fix" doesn't work, or the problem
    returns shortly. So the time (of dealing with leaving the car with the
    dealer, etc,) and risk of other damage and creation of new problems was
    wasted. IOW - too much risk, not enough benefit.

    The other part of this is that many of the recall items are
    insignificant when compared to many of the true safety or huge expense
    issues that never get addressed (IOW, the system is corrupt): windshield
    wiper systems that fail to work just when you need them, steering racks
    that lock up, engines that self destruct in spite of all maintenance
    requirements having been met, etc.

    On things that might really be important, like a child restraint, you
    might be better off to figure out what the fix is (read the details of
    the recall, TSB, or whatever), and buy and install the parts yourself.
    I have found that to be the overwhelmingly more effective and least
    costly solution.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    adddress with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Apr 7, 2005
  3. TomKan

    David Guest

    You also failed to mention, that by performing the work yourself, and not
    letting the dealer does it, makes you a target from a prospective new owner
    of your trade-in, or should you sell it yourself, and something does happen,
    in regards to the re-call part not being repaired! A part is re-called for a
    reason! buying a part at a jobber store, does not mean it meets the criteria
    to effectively repair the problem. Only the manufacturer knows the
    engineering specs to correct the problem part. the taiwanese part more then
    likely does not meet it.
    David, Apr 7, 2005
  4. TomKan

    TNKEV Guest

    The child seat anchor recall takes about an hour,and the power steering hose
    recall takes all of five minutes after the vehicle is on the lift,all they
    are doing to most of them is repositioning the hose that runs accross the
    left side of the engine,you can see it from the bottom ot has two clamps
    that are loosened and the hose pushed back and the clamps retightened.if the
    hose has worn through the rubber lining the hose has to be replaced that
    takes about an hour and a half here.out of about 250 only 5 have needed
    If they tell you they need it longer than 3 hrs or so they are likely
    busy,I would try another dealer.
    TNKEV, Apr 7, 2005
  5. TomKan

    Bill Putney Guest

    B.S. Besides - I rarely sell a vehicle before it has 180+k miles on it.
    So then explain why I see multiple posts on LH car forums of the
    driver's seat bolts being replaced under recall and the problem (seat
    bolts coming loose) happening again (just one example).

    You ignore the other part of my gripe which is that things that truly
    should be recalled (wiper systems, steering racks, etc.) are not.

    Customers are forced to pay for costs of correcting problems that are
    clearly clearly clearly a design flaw.
    I said nothing about buying aftermarket parts. I would buy the parts
    from the dealer, though I did not say that. But the same can be said of
    dealer parts in some instances.

    Here's one for you: To fix a problem of the oil pressure light coming on
    at idle, a particular DC TSB prescribes to replace the oil pressure
    switch and add a wire to the connector body to serve as a vent of the
    sealed connector. The price at the dealer for the vent wire (comprised
    of a normal small-gage electric wire and crimped-on connector) is $16 -
    just for the part that I might be willing to pay $2.50 for! You want me
    to trust and support such a bogus pricing system as that? And to
    correct their design flaw to boot?

    Or, again, the LH seat bolt recall.
    (already addressed the Taiwanese part red herring)

    From what I've read, and from what I've seen first hand, I'd say that a
    lot of recalls are b.s., and several times I've seen where the fix that
    was prescibed by the recall did not adequately address or did not
    address the root cause of the problem at all. I've read enough posts on
    early LH car a.c. evaporator problems that were "repaired" per the
    recall without success to know that. Often it is clearly the result of
    a coverup or an honest effort by people who clearly did not understand
    the problem - so no - I do not accept that the manufacturer knows how to
    effectively correct the problem. While certainly *somebody* at the
    mfgr. understands "the engineering specs to correct the problem", the
    person who came up with the "solution" often obviously does not or does
    a good job of pretending not to.

    Another example: When the clips in LH cars that attach the door glass to
    the regulator lift plate break (another early design flaw - fixed at
    customer's expense), how come the dealers try to sell them a whole new
    glass with clips at $200+ and tell them the clips ($5) are not avaialble
    separately when there is a TSB put out by DC that says the clips are

    Need more examples of why I do my own repairs?

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    adddress with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Apr 7, 2005
  6. TomKan

    Bob Shuman Guest

    Find a dealer that allows you to call them in advance, discuss the recalls,
    assure they will have the parts and will schedule you properly. Keep in
    mind that many times the recalls can be performed by a Dodge, Chrysler, or
    Jeep dealer. Don't settle for the one that sold you the vehicle or is
    simply closest to you.

    Bob Shuman, Apr 7, 2005
  7. TomKan

    Bill Putney Guest

    Take a look at my photos of the OEM and the aftermarket parts in this
    thread on the 300M Club forums:

    Now tell me that the manufacturer knows how to make a better part than
    the aftermarket. 8^)

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    adddress with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Apr 7, 2005
  8. TomKan

    maxpower Guest

    First of all the recliner bolts recall has nothing to do with them coming
    loose, they are not a hardened steel and can break in the event of an
    accident, And I have seen alot break just from the weight of the driver
    Because when you attach these clips and tell the customer to leave them over
    nite so the glue will dry and they cant leave it. they disregard the fact
    that the swithc is taped up and the first thing they do is roll the window
    down, which in turn pulls the plate away from the glass and in the dealer
    the next day bitching. so alot of dealers sell the intire glass, I myself
    have a window for each side with the plates glued and ready to go so that i
    can sell only the plates and not worry about the glass being rolled down,
    Thees awhole to it Bill and a reason why things are done that way. keep in
    mind if the window plates come aprt after I fis it, I have to do it again
    for free
    Need more?
    maxpower, Apr 7, 2005
  9. TomKan

    maxpower Guest

    First of all let me say this, Chrysler doesn't give a hoot about the
    technicians working on the cars, If there is a recall say for instance an
    oil galley plug on the 4 cyl engines, pays us .4 to do, Chrysler sends you
    out the letter saying it should take about a half hr to complete, well first
    of all you bring this nice hot engine into my shop on a summer day and you
    will sit and wait at least 3 hrs before I attempt to put my hand behind the
    engine on a hot cylinder head and burn myself trying to fix an oil leak. and
    there is allot of recalls out there that Chrysler doesn't give a rats ass
    about. Maybe the dealer you took it to gives a crap about the technicians
    that perform these half ass recalls

    The Child anchor recall you are referring to pays .7 and the form you got
    says it will take about an hour to do HOWEVER additional time may be needed
    depending on how the dealer schedules the work!!
    The P/S hose recall pays .2 to check, if it has a rub mark it needs to be
    replaced, once again, hot engine on a wait job if this hose needs to be
    replaced, add a few hours for cool down time plus the time for replacing the

    Why not contact Chrysler and complain to them!! the number is on the form

    Glenn Beasley
    Chrysler Tech
    maxpower, Apr 7, 2005
  10. TomKan

    Bill Putney Guest

    Actually I was thinking of the seat drive block screws that come loose
    and get replaced - which was a TSB, not a recall - you're right - that
    is different from the recall for the recliner bolts. But the fix for
    the block screws doesn't hold. My point was the unreliability of the
    dealer service and factory fixes.
    Sounds like you need to pull the fuse for the windows! 8^)

    You're suggesting that the dealers lie about the availability of the
    clips - not a good policy. In reality I think they simply aren't aware
    of the TSB's.
    That's a smart idea to have the glass with the new clips ready - kind of
    a core program. I assume you charge them as if you replaced the clips
    on their glass and reinstalled it - that would be the right thing to do.
    I'd be curious to know what the complete charge (parts and labor) for
    replacing the clips vs. replacing with factory new glass (with clips).
    (Hmmm - I think I just figured out where you got the first glass to
    start your core program.) 8^)

    I've recommended to people on the LH forums to get a glass out of the
    junk yard and replace the clips with new ones from the dealer to reduce
    vehicle down time when they are ready to go in for the swap. We've
    considered similar core programs in the past on windows and oil pans
    (with stripped drain plug threads) on the 300M Club.

    So - do you not agree that the window clip problem is a design flaw?

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    adddress with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Apr 7, 2005
  11. TomKan

    David Guest

    Yes, it looks better. But to say buy the parts yourself is saying, get any
    part! Then you said you bought the parts from the dealer? well, if the
    recall is free to the consumer, why buy the part from the dealer? A part
    over the counter even the dealership is not the same part as the recall
    part. The recall part is a totally different part number, then the one over
    the counter. The one sitting on the shelf is probably the same design flawed
    one that needs to be replaced as part of the re-call. So you just replaced
    it with the same defective one! And you paid for it and it will probably
    fail. Just so you know with vehicle recalls, the new part must be sent out
    as the recall kit, before general supply is replenished. And the dealer does
    not get to change in his old stock for recall parts. Chrysler automatically
    ships a certain percentage to dealers for the recall repairs. And they have
    a specific part number different from the rest so Chrysler can record recall
    rates for themselves and NHSTA. And a dealer cannot sell recall parts.

    And then you sell the car someone gets in an accident because of the defect
    ( but you fixed it yourself) congrats! Lawsuit coming!
    David, Apr 7, 2005
  12. TomKan

    maxpower Guest

    Did that, they say it is a safety thing, put it back, disconnected the widow
    swithc and tied the wires out of the panel for the customers to reinstall,
    that used to work, but my way of glueing the plates on the spare windows I
    have in my cabinet is the way to go, i install the window and the cust pays
    for the clips
    Im looking abd looking Bill and I cant seem to find where I suggested that,
    I merely explained to you why most dealers do it the way, and yes, many dont
    know about the plates. MY OPINION ONLY
    Where I started the program is when a vehicle is covered by a service
    contract, they would get the complete window, Chrysler says throw it away
    amd I make used out of it
    I think there are alot of flaws with alot of diffeent vehicles, and the flaw
    isnt the plates, its the fact that the windows are rolled are the way up and
    binding them untill they break, My opinion on the Problem is not the plates
    but the fact there are no upstops to prevent the glass from stopping at the
    maxpower, Apr 7, 2005
  13. TomKan

    Bill Putney Guest

    Again - I hope you charge for the labor of removing the old clips and
    gluing the new ones on - I mean, it's not like overhauling an engine,
    but there certainly is some time involved.
    Seemed like you were. I asked why the dealers tell customers that you
    can't buy the clips separately when there's a TSB that spells it out,
    and you replied that essentially that was because they didn't want to
    deal with the problems of dealing with the clips (the customer rolling
    the window down before the glue cured). It sounded like you meant that
    they told the customer they weren't available when they knew they were -
    they just didn't want the customer to know they were available. That's
    different than saying that the dealer simply didn't know about the TSB.
    The first case (saying they weren't available when they knew they
    were) would be lieing, the second (not knowing about the TSB) would be
    ignorance (not as bad as lieing?). 8^)
    Yep - that's kind of what I figured - that, or replaced a window with
    customer paying and using their old one as a seed for the core system.
    Nothing wrong with that - helps future customers.
    Yeah - it's like they just let the motor stall at full power. Whether
    it's the clip itself or the overall window system, it would still be a
    design flaw for such a failure to be so common. I suspect that they did
    something to improve the strength of the clips (that glue joint between
    the two halves of the clip) - the replacement ones don't seem to fail
    like the factory ones - and I'm thinking the failures are not as common
    on later ('02-'04) years - either they had some process problems that
    they got straightnened out or they went to a better glue. I replaced
    the clips on my drivers door 3 years ago, and it's still fine. My guess
    is that the ones you've fixed don't fail either.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    adddress with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Apr 7, 2005
  14. TomKan

    Art Guest

    My secret to recall success is to not be the first to bring the car in for
    the repair. I wait about 6 months and figure by then the dealer has the
    repair down to a science. Just had two recalls done on my 300M...... no
    problem with either.
    Art, Apr 8, 2005
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