Prestone All Make All Model Antifreeze

[mk]

I need to change the coolant in my 99 Caravan 3.8L. It came with the green coolant. Prestone now makes a new long life coolant they say is good for all makes and model. Also can mix with the old green coolant they say.

Is it safe to use in my radiator for my van? Has anyone tried it in their vehicle?

Mike

 

[Bill Putney]

I need to change the coolant in my 99 Caravan 3.8L. It came with the green coolant. Prestone now makes a new long life coolant they say is good for all makes and model. Also can mix with the old green coolant they say.

Is it safe to use in my radiator for my van? Has anyone tried it in their vehicle?

Mike

I have an opinion, but I can't substantiate it. I have confidence in the G-05 (HOAT) coolant that DC and Ford both have standardized on (available as Mopar and Motorcraft, and in Shell and Zerex in the aftermarket). I think Prestone learned some hard lessons on the GM DexCool™/Prestone Extended Life™ OAT fiasco (GM still has yet to figure a way to bow out of that gracefully). I have a sneaky suspicion that the Prestone "All Makes All Models" new green stuff is good and is their graceful way to pull customers away from the DexCool™. I just can't imagine their public relations beging able to tolerate another huge mistake on its heels. I am trying it in one of my cars as an early experiment.

Like I said - I can't substantiate my opinion - so far it's just a hunch based on what I said above, and I'm willing to take the risk on the one vehicle (a 10 year old vehicle on which I just replaced the head gasket, water pump, and all coolant hoses).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

 

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

I need to change the coolant in my 99 Caravan 3.8L. It came with the green coolant. Prestone now makes a new long life coolant they say is good for all makes and model. Also can mix with the old green coolant they say.

Is it safe to use in my radiator for my van? Has anyone tried it in their vehicle?

I got a bottle of about half of that from a friend when I gave him a bottle to help him home when he lost coolant (turned out to be a loose hose clamp) I didn't realize what it was when I got it until I had used part of it. Fortunately in a vehicle I need to change coolant in anyway.

The way I feel about it is I'm rather p.o. d at Prestone for doing this. Prestone is about the only antifreeze around here that the low-ball chain store auto parts places carry and is usually discounted and put on sale during the fall. Kind of like milk in the grocery store, they sell it in volume and sell it cheap.

I can buy private label antifreeze that is the old 'green stuff' for cheaper than the Prestone so that is what I am going to be doing from now on.

Ted

 

[Steve (archive)]

I need to change the coolant in my 99 Caravan 3.8L. It came with the green coolant. Prestone now makes a new long life coolant they say is good for all makes and model. Also can mix with the old green coolant they say.

Is it safe to use in my radiator for my van? Has anyone tried it in their vehicle?

Mike

Well, you can still buy silicone/silicate inhibitor coolant in several forms, but you have to look harder and harder for it. Look for "heavy duty" or "diesel" coolants and then check the MSDS or product spec sheets for silicate inhibitors- this is the old "green" Prestone type formula.

If you want to make life easier, it appears that G-05 (the coolant Ford and Chrysler have standardized on) is just fine in older vehicles. Its a hybrid coolant, using both conventional inhibitors and organic-acid technology (OAT) inhibitors, and is thus categorized as a "HOAT" inhibitor package. Its very different from Dex-Cool which is an OAT inhibitor package, and is deadly to pretty much everything you put it in except a few GM cars.

Prestone "all makes" looks like its also a HOAT coolant, and so should be about equivalent to G-05. But given how vague Prestone is about what's really in there, I'd be tempted to go with Zerex's clearly-labelled G-05 coolant.

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

Prestone "all makes" looks like its also a HOAT coolant, and so should be about equivalent to G-05. But given how vague Prestone is about what's really in there, I'd be tempted to go with Zerex's clearly-labelled G-05 coolant.

Yep, what he said.

 

[Bill Putney]

Well, you can still buy silicone/silicate inhibitor coolant in several forms, but you have to look harder and harder for it. Look for "heavy duty" or "diesel" coolants and then check the MSDS or product spec sheets for silicate inhibitors- this is the old "green" Prestone type formula.

If you want to make life easier, it appears that G-05 (the coolant Ford and Chrysler have standardized on) is just fine in older vehicles. Its a hybrid coolant, using both conventional inhibitors and organic-acid technology (OAT) inhibitors, and is thus categorized as a "HOAT" inhibitor package. Its very different from Dex-Cool which is an OAT inhibitor package, and is deadly to pretty much everything you put it in except a few GM cars.

Prestone "all makes" looks like its also a HOAT coolant, and so should be about equivalent to G-05. But given how vague Prestone is about what's really in there, I'd be tempted to go with Zerex's clearly-labelled G-05 coolant.

FWIW...

The G-05 claims to be approved by Cat and other manufacturers for their diesels. Not sure what that means exactly - possibly that silicone/silicate inhibitor thing you mentioned.

A friend of mine who just bought a used turbo diesel Beetle e-mailed Prestone at my suggestion. The answer he got back was to use the All Makes All Models in it. I suspect that Zerex would have told him to use G-05 if he had asked them. Just some more factoids.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

 

[Greg Houston]

I have an opinion, but I can't substantiate it. I have confidence in the G-05 (HOAT) coolant that DC and Ford both have standardized on (available as Mopar and Motorcraft, and in Shell and Zerex in the aftermarket).

Does Shell list their G-05 online anywhere? I've never seen it in stores and I couldn't find it online either, but Shell has as about as many websites as they have subsidiaries and holding companies.

 

[Bill Putney]

Bill Putney wrote:

Does Shell list their G-05 online anywhere? I've never seen it in stores and I couldn't find it online either, but Shell has as about as many websites as they have subsidiaries and holding companies.

I haven't actually seen or looked for it on line, Greg. All I know is one of the local parts stores carries the Shell, which is what I have in my Concorde now.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

 

[Steve (archive)]

FWIW...

The G-05 claims to be approved by Cat and other manufacturers for their diesels. Not sure what that means exactly - possibly that silicone/silicate inhibitor thing you mentioned.

Its got SOME silicate. But the thing that really drives most of the "Diesel requirements" on coolants is the big wet-sleeve diesels which need nitrite additives to prevent micro-boiling and cavitation damage. Not needed for most automotive diesels at all (and WOULD be needed for any wet-sleeve gasoline engine, were there many in mass production), but not a bad thing to have ini a coolant since cavitation damage can happen in any engine... it just won't eat all the way through to the combustion chamber except in wet-sleeve designs.... or as Dan will probably point out, early Ford 5.4 Triton cylinder heads

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

Its got SOME silicate. But the thing that really drives most of the "Diesel requirements" on coolants is the big wet-sleeve diesels which need nitrite additives to prevent micro-boiling and cavitation damage. Not needed for most automotive diesels at all (and WOULD be needed for any wet-sleeve gasoline engine, were there many in mass production), but not a bad thing to have ini a coolant since cavitation damage can happen in any engine... it just won't eat all the way through to the combustion chamber except in wet-sleeve designs.... or as Dan will probably point out, early Ford 5.4 Triton cylinder heads

No time to worry about Ford's garbage; I'm thinking about the wet-sleeve aluminum 225 in my '62 Lancer.

 

[Steve (archive)]

No time to worry about Ford's garbage; I'm thinking about the wet-sleeve aluminum 225 in my '62 Lancer.

IIRC (waiting for Dutra's article to load) yep, I was right- the Al 225 isn't a "wet sleeve" design. Its got free-standing aluminum bores, an open deck head, and *dry* liners inside the freestanding bores, just like almost all modern aluminum engines do. Making it a "parent bore" engine.

True wet sleeve engines run the coolant directly on the back side of the replaceable liner. That requires some fancier sealing at the top and bottom of the liner, but allows for maximum heat transfer, which is why its usually only done on BFDiesels that run at max output most of their lives.

IOW- if you removed all of the liners from an Aluminum 225, there would still be "cylinders" in the block. You could fill the block with coolant and it wouldn't run out. But if you remove all the liners from a wet-sleeve engine, there is no physical cylinder remaining at all- just the sealing ledges at the bottom of the cylinder bank and at the block deck. The cooling passages would be directly open to the crankcase.

See also:

http://www.internationaldelivers.com/government/spec/specbyspec2.asp

paragraph 2.

Or better yet: http://www.ic-corp.com/assets/pdf/DT466vsMBE-bus.pdf Pictures and everything, but you have to tolerate a bit of blather about how "inherently" better wet-sleeving is. Truth be told, the DT466 is about the cut-in size for which it is a benefit. Anything smaller doesn't really benefit as much and costs less when built as a parent-bore engine- eg. Navistar's own T444e, Cummins B-series, etc.

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

IIRC (waiting for Dutra's article to load) yep, I was right- the Al 225 isn't a "wet sleeve" design. Its got free-standing aluminum bores, an open deck head, and *dry* liners inside the freestanding bores, just like almost all modern aluminum engines do. Making it a "parent bore" engine.

Oh! Never heard the term. But I guess I get to go sit in the corner for having failed to memorise Dutra's article ;-)

True wet sleeve engines run the coolant directly on the back side of the replaceable liner. That requires some fancier sealing at the top and bottom of the liner, but allows for maximum heat transfer, which is why its usually only done on BFDiesels that run at max output most of their lives.

Think the Viper V10 was one of these (maybe only the gen1 engine?).

 

[Steve (archive)]

Oh! Never heard the term. But I guess I get to go sit in the corner for having failed to memorise Dutra's article ;-)

Nah, its just the photo of the top of one bore showing the liner and the casting that I was remembering

 

[mk]

Nah, its just the photo of the top of one bore showing the liner and the casting that I was remembering

Since I can still easily find the "old green" antifreeze at my auto parts store so that's what I bought. I bought the Canadian Tire antifreeze that says it's good for 2 years or 40,000 kms.

I'll probably do I complete flush and fill with the G05 when I can no longer find the old green antifreeze.

Thanks for all the input.

Mike