Points which so many miss

I saw many comments on the ng and to me seems out of the actual motor
industry contest, with pride and prejudice against what could be the
last chance for chrysler.

a) Chrysler was an almost dead company. Cerberus had almost put to
death the company without any project or plan for the future
It's a miracle someone want make a try to save Chrysler with the world
of motors in such dire situtation, where make profits seems to be a mirage.

b)Marchionne has done a great work for fiat, this isn't an assurance he
can reply them in chrysler, but at least he's the right man for the
task. The prejudice for Marchionne is out of place.


c) Fear and pride for the lost of hemi motors, rebadged models, and so
on: the world of motors is changing like never before. Oil is at 75$ and
growing, it could be go over the last top of 150$: chrysler need
fuel-efficient motor like mad for the future and the downsizing is the
trend of the car industry, model like pick up and suv will suffer again
in those condition. I know America got big highway, but dollar is
falling and oil is going to skyrocket again. Analyst Jeff Rubin recently
predicted $200 a barrel for oil would translate into $7 per gallon:
amaricans will be forced to change their habits.
I wonder who will buy Ram pick ups with oil at 7pg....
Rebadges models: economy of scale is one of the key points to make
profits on cars, sharing platforms motors and models is a standard for
every big group, Chrysler must follow the market, or die.

d) Fiat got the multiair engines, one of the interesting revolution of
for combustion motor. From wikipedia
MultiAir engines will increase power (up to 10%) and torque (up to
15%), as well as a considerable reduction in consumption levels (up to
10%) and CO2 emissions (up to 10%), of particulates (up to 40%) and NOx
(up to 60%),[1] when compared to a traditional petrol engine. The system
also provides smoother cold weather operation, more even torque
delivery, and no engine shake at shut-off. In the future this tecnology
could be a hit in chrysler line up



Overprodution in the industry is a plague, oil rising, economic crisis:
with all above facts chrysler future is still at jeopardy, (but also
all other groups are in a troubled condition). Chrysler can only hope
Marchionne will do the right steps, pride is a nonsense in this condition.

Sorry for my english and if what I've said seems obvious

 

So was GM, and so too would Ford have been had it not borrowed
significantly in 2006 and 2007 giving it a huge cash cushion that will
only last it for another year. Ford is in intense negotiations with UAW
/ CAW trying to get wage concessions that match what GM and Chrysler
got.

Many other car companies in other countries got huge loans and also
old-car rebate programs (cash for clunkers) in other countries (ie
Germany).

Also note that in Japan, they have a significant subsidy program in
place for their domestic car companies: Existing cars must pass yearly
emmissions standards based on the *current* standards, not the standards
that were in place in the year the car was made. This leads to many
good cars being crushed and Japanese consumers must by new cars more
frequently.

The credit crisis crippled many companies that otherwise would have
continued to operate normally. But I agree that Cerberus was destroying
Chrysler from the inside. But Bob Eaton signed Chrysler's death warrant
in 1998. It would have been a much stronger company with much better
products when the credit crisis hit in 2008 if it had remained an
independent, public company.

But the larger fact is that much of Chrysler's executive and design
talent left the company shortly after the Daimler take-over because of
the incredibly assinine management style and belligerence of the german
managers and executives at Daimler. That left no Americans in a
position to effectively lead and manage the company when Daimler tossed
it to Cerberus like a piece of garbage. The Germans pricks at Daimler
were too stuck up to admit that their arrogance and management style
killed Chrysler.

I recommend that you read the following:

Taken for a Ride : How Daimler-Benz Drove off with Chrysler

Riding the roller coaster: A history of the Chrysler Corporation

You are giving Fiat credit when it deserves absolutely NONE!

Fiat is investing NO MONEY into Chrysler. The US and Canadian govt's
have given Chrysler $15 billion dollars, and Fiat will be siphoning away
that money over the next 2 years.

He is not the right man. The right man could be Tom Stallkamp or Tom
Gale (depending on their age at this point I guess). Lutz is
(unfortunately) too old.

Just wait until he is defined as the man who killed Chrysler. Then he
will join Eaton in hell.

You know nothing of Americans and the American way of life. Americans
will not buy and put their familes in small cars. When Iraq's oil
supply is fully on-line, oil prices will fall and remain tolerable for
the next 10 years at least. American's are not taxed on gasoline
(petrol) like you are in Europe. Americans have big roads and big
houses with big garages to park their big cars in.

The dollar can't fall very far because the Euro is also weak, and Japan
has TWICE the debt per capita as the US. In Europe, you are facing a
huge influx of muslims who will strain your social services and you will
have to tax and print more money to support them.

The same ones who buy the Ram at $1 and $2 per gallon. Gasoline will
never again rise to $4 or more the next 10 years. The oil speculators
have learned a lesson with the crash from $147 down to below $60.
Currency and gold speculating will replace it. Obama will have the
balls to release oil from the US strategic reserve to keep oil prices
low if he has to. Bush was a stooge for the oil industry which is why
he never did it.

 

Many other car companies in other countries got huge loans and also
old-car rebate programs (cash for clunkers) in other countries (ie
Germany).


here ya go

September 28, 2009 14:31 CET
UPDATED: Sept. 28 16:16 CET

BRIGHTON, England (Reuters) -- The UK's Business Secretary Peter
Mandelson announced a 100 million pound ($159 million) extension to
Britain's car scrappage scheme to support the recession-hit auto industry.
Mandelson said on Monday the scheme was being extended to include an
additional 100,000 vehicles.

The 300 million pounds originally allotted for the scheme was set to
run out before the scheduled end of the program next February, according to
the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT).

Industry groups have lobbied for an extension of the scheme, which
encourages motorists to trade in old cars for new, less-polluting models,
saying it has boosted sales.

Introduced earlier this year, the scheme gives drivers 2,000 pounds to
trade in cars more than 10 years old for a new model.

The government funds half of the subsidy and the auto industry pays
for the other 50 percent.

 

How do you know Marchionne is not the right man. I thought the OP's comment
is quite appropriate. Who are the two you mentioned?

As regards Americans' love of big cars, I think the average car on the road
there now is noticeably smaller than 30 years ago. What you say about big
roads and big garages is true, but so what? You can always put a smaller
car in them, and smaller cars have much better suspensions than they used to
have, so better for long distances then before. Anyway, small is relative.
I don't think Fiat would be so foolish as to expect to sell tens of
thousands of Fiat 500s in the US.

We don't know if the dollar will fall further. One thing is sure. It is
not as high relative to other major currencies as it was 30 yeas ago. A
good indicator is the so-called sky-high gold price which is still perhaps
half of what it was at the previous peak in inflation-adjusted terms.

We don't know what will happen to the oil price.

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"
---
[...]

 

on that note........


October 13, 2009 - 3:39 pm ET
DETROIT -- Chrysler Group CEO Sergio Marchionne is "the next
generation of Lee Iacocca," Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said after
visiting all three Detroit automakers yesterday and today. I think what I
saw at Chrysler is what people felt when Iacocca was there," LaHood said
after a speech to the Detroit Economic Club. "It's a new level of energy and
enthusiasm because there's new leadership of people that know what they're
doing, of people that have been successful in the automobile manufacturing
business."

LaHood visited Chrysler, General Motors Co. and Ford Motor Co. and
told his audience that "Detroit is back."

He said he had a 40-minute meeting with Marchionne yesterday. The
Chrysler CEO got his job in June when Chrysler emerged from bankruptcy as a
new company controlled by Italian automaker Fiat S.p.A.

New leadership

Marchionne, who is also CEO of Fiat, represents "the next generation
of leaders for the American automobile industry," LaHood said.

Marchionne radiated excitement, LaHood said. "But before I even got to
him, I sensed it in every employee that I met. And it wasn't phony."

Iacocca, one of Marchionne's predecessors as CEO, led the automaker
for 13 years, retiring in 1992. During his tenure, Chrysler avoided a 1980s
bankruptcy through federal loan guarantees that Chrysler repaid early.
Iacocca became famous nationwide for the "If you can find a better car, buy
it" advertising pitch he made in Chrysler ads.

Management overhaul

During his four-month tenure at Chrysler, Marchionne has overhauled
Chrysler's management, and has 25 top executives reporting directly to him.
He has appointed CEOs over each of Chrysler's four brands -- Chrysler, Jeep,
Dodge and, new last week, Ram.

LaHood said he visited Chrysler Group's design studio, saw the
excitement at Ford surrounding the revival of the Ford Taurus and drove the
Chevrolet Volt.

Luca Ciferri and Bradford Wernle contributed to this report

 

MoPar Man ha scritto:

In no way Ford is in the same position of Gm and chrysler. Gm, on the
other side, is working industry, with project underway and still selling
well in many markets. Btw I have seen a battle to buy Opel from Gm, have
you seen anyone interested in Chrysler, except Fiat?

If us and canadian governament would have a better choice rather than
fiat do you think they would have missed it.

That's your point. The world is changing at very fast pace. Third world
is asking for his slice of petrol. China and India have 2,3 billion of
potential consumer. China is alredy the biggest auto market and still
growing. Ten years ago China auto industry was inexistent, now set every
month new records: oil demand, without price incrase, would go to the
roof. Europe, Japan and usa will be forced to adjust their style of life
to the new price of oil and small car and fuel efficient engine is the
only answer.

Japan debt is high but almost all owned by japanese, so is european
debt. The differece for the Us debt is 70% of it is owned by china,
japan and others country and at the moment all of them are switching
their investments from usa debt, in addiction consider also the terrific
trade deficit, and you have another answer for dollar weakness.

Speculators were, are and will be forever at work, but real demand for
oil is changing with Chinese, indians and others asking every day more
oil, which until now was aviable only for european, japanese and
americans. Chinese cars don't run with thè.

Regards

 

I just said that Ford *would have been* in the same position, had it not
borrowed heavily in 2006 and 2007. All major manufacturing companies
are (or were) leveraged heavily into debt. Some just happen to be in a
better position in others when it comes to rolling that debt over. GM
and Chrysler needed a gov't handout to continue operating this year -
Ford didn't. Let's see if that's still the case in 6 to 9 months time.

Fiat was essentially paid to manage Chrysler. Chrysler couldn't have
been "given" to Ford or GM (that was not an option), Daimer had already
fucked with Chrysler and showed how incompentent they were, the japs
didn't seem to have a clue what was going on (and it would have been
bad, optically, to give a jap company control of an American icon).

There was absolutely no need to give 20% of Chrysler to Fiat, as well as
give Fiat complete operational and management control. What was needed
was to have the board of directors appoint new management from within
North America and operate Chrysler as a stand-alone company - one
largely owned by gov't and the union.

It is was a ruse to use Fiat's "small car technology" as the reason to
bring Fiat into the picture and give it 20% of the company and full
operational ownership of it.

Chrysler does not need small-car technology - ESPECIALLY SMALL CAR
TECHNOLOGY THAT WILL TAKE 2.5 YEARS TO HIT THE SHOW ROOM AND BE MADE
MOSTLY IN ITALY AND MEXICO.

Chrysler needs a more economical sedan platform. Their current one is
too heavy and they have too many sedans offered only in RWD.

Canada oil-sands and oil from Iraq will be flowing soon enough. Several
new major off-shore oil discoveries are made every year. Large cars and
utility vehicles that Americans like are becoming MORE fuel efficient.
Americans do not pay the high taxes on gasoline as is the case in
Europe, and who knows about India and China.

The world is not changing as much as you think, not here in North
America when it comes to private vehicles.

No country wants to see their currency rise higher compared to the US
dollar - it will kill exports to the US and hence their own
manufacturing and export jobs.

If the US isin't buying stuff made in India and China, then there will
be many indians and chinese out of a job. And when you're out of a job,
you're not buying oil.

 

So were several auto companies almost dead. Their Gov saved them.
Chrysler's problem was bean counting Cerberus following thief Daimler.
Between them they stripped Chrysler bare and left no one in control.

Marchionne is OK as far as I can see.
The Fiat problem is lack of cars that would sell well here.
Now if Opel cars could be obtained, there would be hope.

 

If Fiat has licked the quality problems -- not a sure thing -- they have the
larger Fiats and Alfa-Romeos (very stylish cars).

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"

 

Chrysler can use Fiat's technology for improved fuel mileage, but I
agree Fiat's small cars will not fly here in NA.

Right on, Chrysler has blown the mid sized FWD market they had a
significant chunk of.
That's what I was looking for over the previous two years, Chrysler
didn't have a product I desired. The first time Chrysler's products
didn't meet my needs since they came out with FWD many years ago.
The downturn was in 2005 when they came out with the 300 which sells to
a different market and has done well.

 

The price of those would make them competitive in the NA mid sized
market? I wouldn't even bother going to the dealer to see.

 

Josh S ha scritto:

Marchionne has stopped all sedan for fiat, Lancia and Alfa because he
wants to make profits for every model and to do this looks for numbers,
like they have done with small cars. Fiat 500, Fiat Panda, Ford Ka are
all done in the same plant, with an impressive output (600.000 are
expected for 2009, with huges Economy of scale), all sharing the same
platform, engine, trasmission etc, he will do the same with the next
sedan for chrysler, Fiat and Alfa, one plant in the usa or Mexico, same
platform and engine and different badges.
Make profit is the only way to survuve

As for small cars, I agree they are not suitable in states, but low mpg
engines will be even more unsuitable .