Pacifica Rebates - Smacks of Ill Repute

Discussion in 'Pacifica' started by Nomen Nescio, Nov 2, 2003.

  1. Nomen Nescio

    Nomen Nescio Guest

    Mr. Richard Benner Jr. boasted:
    Pacifica issues demand a new thread, so here it comes!

    WTF is a "retiree voucher?" Are we talking the same ethics of ill repute
    as "student discount" or "first time buyer discount" or what can be pulled
    out next from the shit pot?

    other pricing scheme cheats the public because the one who pays more is
    subsidizing the one who pays less. Or put more simply for the idiotic
    imbeciles who run D-C sales, THE PRICE OF A LOAF OF BREAD IS THE SAME FOR
    EVERYBODY. Any deviation from this cardinal principle of fair business
    practice needs to be hit with a MONUMENTAL class action lawsuit. Different
    prices for different folks don't fly in a supermarket, so how does Chrysler
    think they can get away with it at their dealerships?

    Don't those fools realize how they ALIENATE previous buyers with special
    dispensation to the favored? Once an old fart buyer finds out their punk
    kid neighbor gets $5000 off on the flimsy excuse he's a young wanker, he is
    going to be pissed good. And he won't forget it and won't stop bitching
    about it on this played-out newsgroup. Dozens of people will read his
    messages, including me! Discounts like these can only breed ill will and
    will ruin future business now and forever.

    Aren't there any schyster lawyers out there buying these overpriced road
    slugs? Where's Algonquin J. Calhoun when we need him? Dig out your sales
    contract. Did you pay more for your Pacifica station wagon than the old
    fart who just bought one identical to yours? The criteria is the official
    pricing structure - Wheeling and dealing, that is, price negotiation only
    complicates the issue and provides the dealers with a smokescreen to ward
    off claims of unfair business practice. What counts is the official
    pricing in terms of sticker and posted "discounts." Analyze these
    factory-sanctioned offers and then get your legal ass in motion. The rest
    of us are depending on you guys.
    Nomen Nescio, Nov 2, 2003
  2. Nomen Nescio

    73blazer Guest

    Why rip on Chrysler, every OEM Foreign & Domestic gives discounts to
    employee's, retiree's, students, etc. For that matter, how about a
    Senior Coffee at Mc'ds. What's up with that, why should I pay $0.99 for
    coffee when the "old fart" as you put it, pays $0.25. How about
    telephone & heating discounts for those who make less than $20,000/year?
    What's going on there? How about that $0.25 beer for students on
    Thursday nights at your local bar when I have to pull out $2.50 for the
    same beer. How about that Weekend sale at the local sporting goods
    store, what if I work weekends, that's not fair I have to pay full
    price. Why are thier always couches in womens bathrooms and never a
    counch in a mens bathroom. The answer: that's just the way it is, and
    bellyaching and lawsuits will never change it.

    73blazer, Nov 2, 2003
  3. Nomen Nescio

    RPhillips47 Guest

    "Nomen Nescio" blathered:

    Why don't you just blow it out your A**????
    RPhillips47, Nov 3, 2003
  4. It's been common business practice for companies to give discounts to
    employees, retirees, etc. for decades. Most retail stores give anywhere
    between 10% to 30% discounts on merchandise to their employees. MCI gives
    free long distance (up to $25), or they used to. Banks give loan rate
    reductions to employees, etc. The list goes on and on and on. Doesn't your
    employer give discounts?
    James C. Reeves, Nov 3, 2003
  5. Not true. Companies don't sell to employees at a loss, generally. What is
    going on here is
    the company is making no profit from the one who pays less, and is making a
    profit from the
    one who pays more. Thus the one who pays more is not subsidizing the one
    who pays less.

    Why do companies sell at a discount to employees? Simple - it's good
    business practice to
    have your employees use your products, that's why. If everyone who worked
    at Chrysler
    drove a Chrysler, then if there's a problem with the product, the guy who
    caused the problem
    is going to have the problem happen to him. That's pretty powerful
    incentive to not cause problems
    in the first place, and to quickly fix the ones that you do cause.

    Ted Mittelstaedt, Nov 3, 2003
  6. Thank You for your concern Nomen Nescio (aka Student Mechanic). I am
    happy that I got you to sit down and type out another book. At least
    I have noticed that you are either learning to spell better or you
    have learned to use the spell checker. When Student Mechanic was
    writing, your spelling and grammar was terrible.
    OLD RETIRED FART from Chrysler.
    Richard Benner Jr, Nov 3, 2003
  7. Nomen Nescio

    Mike Elliott Guest

    It's called capitalism, fixing prices across the board in the whole country
    goes against everything the americans believe in. It's too socialist...

    Mike Elliott, Nov 3, 2003
  8. Interestingly, completely free price bargaining was prohibited in Germany
    till quite recently. By this I mean, e.g. someone walking into a car
    dealership and asking for a price much lower than, say, 2% off sticker
    price. The dealer could not give the discount even if he wanted to. This
    law also prohibited special offers like Two for the price of One, something
    that many of us have taken for granted for years.

    The purpose was to prevent unfair competition and stemmed from the thirties,
    but it was finally recognised that it was inappropriate in the present
    environment and the law was abolished.

    An interesting 'side note', I thought.

    Dori Schmetterling, Nov 3, 2003
  9. Nomen Nescio

    Neil Guest

    Hate to break it to ya, but car prices in the US are usually pretty
    negotiable. Even some of the Saturn dealers will haggle. Besides, no
    matter who the seller is, there are always ways to negotiate, such as
    by offering generous trade-in allowances, even if the new car is sold
    at list price. I don't think there's a practical way to enforce list
    prices, even if anyone wanted to, because there are so many

    The gist of your post/troll/whatever seems to be that you heard of
    somebody who got a sweet deal, and that makes you terribly unhappy.
    Maybe instead of resenting somebody's good deal, you should accept
    that idea and be happy for the buyer who got the sweet deal.

    It's the dealer's responsibility to make deals that work for the
    customer and the dealer. And apparently the dealer was able to do

    Neil, Nov 3, 2003
  10. Nomen Nescio

    MoPar Man Guest

    So it was against the law for retailers to set prices other than the
    manufacturers suggested retail price (MSRP)? Or did this just apply
    to cars?

    I've been to Germany about 2 dozen times in the past 10 years, and in
    general really like the country. But for better or worse, it's not a
    consumer-oriented society (ie it's not open for (retail) business as
    much as US or Canada). But then again our own history here in Ontario
    for Sunday shopping is somewhat spotty. Lots of times when I had time
    to do some shopping (in Germany) - the stores were closed...
    MoPar Man, Nov 4, 2003
  11. I think it was more a case of not being able substantially to undercut the
    published price. This applied to all goods.

    There were other consequences that were not obviously noticeable when coming
    from other economic environments, such as the absence of mid-season sales.
    Sales were a set-piece affair in winter and summer within defined dates.

    You are absolutely right about the retail store opening hours in Germany as
    well. They have recently been liberalised. The restrictions were in place
    to protect the workers, as they were in the UK, which was even more
    restrictive in terms of daily and Sunday hours.

    Many years ago a proposal before the UK parliament to derestrict completely
    the shop hours was thrown out at the last minute as various lobby groups
    suddenly realised what was happening. Some time later the subject was
    picked up again, only this time the government was a bit cleverer and put
    three proposals before parliament: leave as is (silly, as the law was being
    flouted routinely and there was little appetite to enforce something so
    clearly out of date), derestrict fully (likely to be rejected again) and
    something in-between. Needless to say the 'something in-between' was passed
    into law. A key feature was that no worker could be forced to work on
    Sundays if he/she did not wish to.

    Note on Ontario: you're right about the spottiness about the attitude to
    consumers. It seems I must go to a government-controlled shop to buy my
    booze and I am not allowed to open the bottle before getting it off the
    street, whether I am driving or not.... :)

    Dori Schmetterling, Nov 4, 2003
  12. Nomen Nescio

    Lloyd Parker Guest

    I've never heard that. What has been in the news is that it's against the law
    in the EU (and has been for some time) for a German VW dealer to refuse to
    sell a car to an Italian customer, when the VW might be priced lower in
    Germany. VW has been fined much money in recent years for doing this very
    Lloyd Parker, Nov 4, 2003
  13. Nomen Nescio

    MoPar Man Guest

    Sunday shopping was opposed mainly by church-goers who (I suspect) did
    not have the discipline to follow their beliefs and NOT shop on Sunday
    if the stores were open. So they'd rather have them closed by law to
    avoid temptation. We've had wide-open Sunday shopping now for about
    10 to 15 years now. Our store hours on Sunday at this point are
    probably the same as week-day store hours in Germany.
    The only people here that complain about this are under-aged kids who
    can't buy booze at the corner conveinence store like they can
    elsewhere. Also, in the US, I think you'd find some or most booze
    outlets and their surroundings to be scary places to patronize...

    Truth is that our LCBO and beer stores are located at or in major
    shopping centers and they're pretty conveinent to get to. Note that
    the LCBO is the world's largest single purchaser of liquor and spirits
    and can negotiate the best prices for the quantity they buy.
    I don't know of any state or province or city in the US or Canada
    where open liquor or beer in public is legal. New Orleans french
    quarter being one exception.
    MoPar Man, Nov 4, 2003
  14. Nomen Nescio

    Neil Guest

    The poster states he's "a Chrysler employee," so maybe the "retiree
    voucher" has something to do with that. IOW, IMHO getting a better
    deal is probably one of the job benefits of working for Chrysler.

    BTW, deals for auto discounts via employers aren't that rare, even for
    employers that don't make cars. For example, some friends work for a
    large UK-based company with offices in my part of the US. My friends
    tell me that because their company (at least locally; don't know about
    internationally) buys only Fords, employees (see comment in previous
    parentheses) can buy Ford and brands of (at least partially)
    Ford-owned makes, such as Land Rover, Mazda, Lincoln, Volvo, etc. at a
    Maybe the price is (in effect) the same, because employees pay for it
    by working for their employers and/or their employers pay the
    See above. They're not giving away the cars.
    I'm not sure "Dozens of people" in "this played-out newsgroup" will
    really have any effect on Chrysler's sales, which by the way are up,
    due to "aided by heavy consumer incentives," according to:
    Actually, the incentives seem to be working, according to the above

    IMHO, the real danger of incentives and discounts is that they buy
    sales, at the expense of lowered prices and (possibly) profits. Then
    automakers can compensate by raising sticker prices, anticipating the
    discounts that will in effect bring the prices lower, but also
    confusing the consumer.

    But given that Saturn sales don't seem to be big, maybe the market is
    telling us that consumers would rather have incentives and discounts
    than fixed prices. BTW, Saturn uses fixed prices to insure higher
    profit margins. I'll add that not all Saturn dealers follow the
    fixed-price plan.
    That wouldn't be included in the contract.
    Apparently, most people prefer the incentives, discounts, and
    If it's so important to you, you've bought a Pacifica and can make
    some argument that you've somehow been cheated, and you can find an
    attorney who can find some legal basis somehow somewhere for a suit,
    then go for it.
    Neil, Nov 4, 2003
  15. Nomen Nescio

    Joe Bidwell Guest

    In Ontario actually, the Sunday Shopping Laws are very complex. The
    holiday shopping laws even more so. In Ontario the law says you
    cannot force somebody to work on Sunday. If they work on Sunday, you
    have to offer another day off in the week if they want it. The
    Professions are exempt from this. As for hours, they can be regulated
    by the local municipality, but where I live they are not.
    Also in Ontario we have what are called statutory holidays when store
    should be closed. Note I said should because, if a local municipality
    declares themselves (or part of themselves) a tourist zone, stores can
    be open on a holiday. I believe Windsor does this, since the malls
    there were open on Thanksgiving. The Professions of course are exempt
    from this too. Professionals in Ontario basically have no rights.
    This is how they can force a doctor, engineer, etc. to work on
    Christmas morning.
    Actually a lot of people think the service at the Beer Store and
    Liquor stores are not good enough. Especially when you can't get beer
    after 9pm. In today's world, that just isn't good enough. This is a
    24/7 world, and people work many types of shifts. Also the service in
    the government liquor store, or the private patronage foreign owned
    monopoly beer store is not up to par. There are not enough outlets,
    and the prices are too high. The price structure encourages smuggling
    and home brewing.

    I believe if anything the major big grocery stores should be able to
    sell beer. They would be too afriad of license loss to sell to kids,
    they already sell cigarettes and lottery so they can read ID's, and
    they are "established" enough to be responsible. This is how it is
    done in the rest of the world. Even Utah, Sweden, Norway, sell beer
    in grocery stores. Of could in Ontario we have to get over the nanny
    state loser mentality.
    In Nevada you can drink in public if you are at least 1000 feet away
    from a licensed liquor outlet. This means no drinking in the parking
    lot, but you can drink in the park, beach, etc.

    Also many states allow beach, park, only drinking.
    Joe Bidwell, Nov 4, 2003
  16. I don't live in North America...

    NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
    Dori Schmetterling, Nov 4, 2003
  17. No reason why you would. I only found out because the abolition of the law
    was in the news (and I am in Germany more than once a year). I was vaguely
    aware of the lack of deep discounts but only realised that "buy one, get one
    free" hadn't existed until afterwards.

    NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
    Dori Schmetterling, Nov 4, 2003
  18. Nomen Nescio

    rickety Guest

    MoPar Man wrote:
    Whether illegal or not I can't say, but carrying drink from one hotel/casino
    to another in Las Vegas didn't seem to raise any eyebrows (except my Ontario
    born friends)!
    rickety, Nov 5, 2003
  19. Wow, it doesn't take much to stir you guys up. ;) Yes, I am a
    Chrysler Retire and the retiree's got a $1000 voucher toward the
    purchase of a new Chrysler product in the new contract. Chrysler and
    all the car companies and many other companies realize that it is
    GREAT advertisement for an employee to be seen using and owning the
    product that they help build. Would you rather not sell ANY then to
    sell many at a slightly reduced price.
    Richard Benner Jr, Nov 6, 2003
  20. Nomen Nescio

    Neil Guest

    OK by me. Congrats!

    Neil, Nov 6, 2003
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