OT looking for radio

[Ken Weitzel]

Hi...

With apologies for the off-topic post, I wonder if any of you
in Canada might have or know where I could get one of the
earlier (squarish) Infinity AM/FM/CD units?

The one I need is the one that says Infinity or Infinity Gold on
the face, and has 5 (not 3) equalizer sliders.

Goes without saying that I want one with an operating display,
and that will play burned cd's.

Would like to buy one for a reasonable price if one can be found
in Canada (there is one in the US, but customs hassles).

Please let me know, thanks in advance, and take care.

Ken

 

[Rick Yerke]

Have you tried Ebay?

 

[Ken Weitzel]

Have you tried Ebay?

Hi Rick...

Yeppers, sure did... that's where I found the one in the US...
Searched all the for sale newsgroups, too


Still hoping that there must be one sitting somewhere in Canada
doing nothing... young folks seem to be "upgrading" them all the
time, so the OEM ones must be going somewhere

Thanks for your reply, and take care.

Ken

 

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Hi Rick...

Yeppers, sure did... that's where I found the one in the US...
Searched all the for sale newsgroups, too


Still hoping that there must be one sitting somewhere in Canada
doing nothing... young folks seem to be "upgrading" them all the
time, so the OEM ones must be going somewhere

Yes, they are. The Infinity sytems use powered speakers, and you
cannot substitute a standard radio and use the Infinity speakers, you
have to replace the speakers when you replace the Infinity system

As a result of this there's a market for used, working Infinity radios
because quite a lot of people who have their Infinity radio stolen by
thieves, do not want to replace the entire system, they just want to
replace the radio.

Also, the Infinity speakers themselves are expensive to replace, so
quite a lot of people who have ONE speaker fail, want to buy
just a replacement, so there is also a market for used, working,
Infinity speakers.

I have been in every wrecking yard in my city that has
Chryslers, scavenging parts for my projects, and without fail
every single vehicle that comes into a wrecking yard with an
Infinity system has that system pulled within days. The speakers
are usually pulled within a week. Radios that have the 5 band
equalizer like you want, the yards themselves take those radios
out, they don't even make it to the yard for customers to get.

The car audio shops know all this so when a young fool pup comes
in to R&R his Infinity radio with a stereo, if he does not want his
Infinity system parts, the audio shops take them and sell them.

The VAST majority of GOOD cdplayer Infinity systems with the
5 band eq go straight to the insurance companies for radio
replacement.

Every once in a while you see one of these on Ebay that is
probably a good one, for example Ebay auction #5834287779.
But most of them are suspect, and even these can be easily
bid up to $150 or more. For example of
the silliness, check out Ebay auction #8017168057, the
seller flat out admits the radio is busted but there's STILL
one bid on it for $40, 4 days before the end of the auction!

In my Ebay opinion,
(I've bought over 400 items on Ebay, my feedback is all positive,
and I've been doing it since 1999, userID tmittelstaedt) based
on looking at the auctions descriptions and sellers info for
these Infinity systems for quite a while (I wanted a cd player
too, like you do) the vast majority of cdplayer Infinity systems
with the 5 band eq that go on Ebay have a failed cd drive. The sellers
don't tell
you this, they just ship the radio with shippers insurance, and
when you go to install it and find the cd drive broken, they tell
you to file a claim with the shipper because it must have been
damaged in transit. You then go to file a claim and the shipper
tells you that you have to show an invoice for the purchase of the
radio so they can get a dollar value. You show them the $150
that you paid the Ebay seller and they issue you a check for
$150 then take your Infinity radio (which they have a right to
do so) and you end up right back where you started from.

There are companies that sell (they claim) refurbished Infinity
radios on the Internet - prices are comparable to what you would
pay an audio store for a decent car radio - but they are warrentied
and you can find them on the Internet by searching Google. That
is your best hope to get a working cdplayer Infinity radio.

Here is my advice, if you are willing to take it.

STRONGLY consider gutting your existing Infinity system and
selling the components on Ebay - you will fetch a good price
for them - and put all new speakers and a new aftermarket radio
in. Put in good 2 way speakers in the dash holes, run thick cable
from them to your radio, and put a highpass filter on them, then
run a thick cable to a subwoofer and put that in a box under the
drivers seat and a lowpass filter on it. Don't use the existing
wiring and don't waste time trying to put speakers in the door or
in the rear deck or rear tailgate. The cost is a bit more than what
you think your going to pay on Ebay, but it will sound better and
you can probably play mp3s directly off the CD.

If you absolutely must have an Infinity, then do what I did -
find an Infinity CASSETTE player with the 5 band eq. For
example Ebay acution# 8017699153. Install that,
then buy a personal CD player with a car kit (cigarette lighter
plug and cassette adapter) you can probably get one for
$30. The sound quality will be the same as if you get an
Infinity system with the cd player, and when the thieves
break into your car to steal the cdplayer, they will not
destroy your dash getting the Infinity radio out. The Infinity
cassette players are on ebay, cost a quarter of the cdplayers,
and most of them are in great shape because a cassette
drive is a lot less fragile than a cdplayer mechanism. You
do have to beware of busted mounting tabs though, for
example the 8017699153 auction is missing the bottom
mounting tab.

In my case the reason I went with an Infinity in my used 94
T&C (which when I bought it, had had the original infinity
system gutted, replaced with an aftermarket, and that also
was missing) was so that it would be identical to my 95 T&C
which when I bought it came complete with a working Infinity
5 band eq and cassette head. The idea was to have them
both the same so if in the future a failure happened, I could
swap components to quickly find the problem. And I bought
my 5 band eq cassette system off Ebay as well. But if I hadn't
had that situation, I would have gone aftermarket.

And one last thing I will say - the Infinity system isn't worth
listening to unless you have the 5 band eq. That is one thing
you are right about. There is a very strong bass spike in
the 200 Hz range that makes the system sound like your sitting
in a 55 gallon drum if you have the volume up any appreciable
amount, and only the 5 band eq can adjust that out. The
fundamental problem with the system is the speakers are
2 way, not 3 way. If they had power-driven only a bass
subwoofer, and put a standard midrange and tweeter in,
instead of the power driven woofer that goes up to 1Khz
and a combo midrange-tweeter, the sound would have been
phenominal. Instead it's just like everyone elses 2-way
systems, and the power-driving of the woofer compounds
the 200Hz spike.

Ted

 

[Bill Putney]

Yes, they are. The Infinity sytems use powered speakers, and you
cannot substitute a standard radio and use the Infinity speakers, you
have to replace the speakers when you replace the Infinity system

As a result of this there's a market for used, working Infinity radios
because quite a lot of people who have their Infinity radio stolen by
thieves, do not want to replace the entire system, they just want to
replace the radio.

Also, the Infinity speakers themselves are expensive to replace, so
quite a lot of people who have ONE speaker fail, want to buy
just a replacement, so there is also a market for used, working,
Infinity speakers.

I have been in every wrecking yard in my city that has
Chryslers, scavenging parts for my projects, and without fail
every single vehicle that comes into a wrecking yard with an
Infinity system has that system pulled within days. The speakers
are usually pulled within a week. Radios that have the 5 band
equalizer like you want, the yards themselves take those radios
out, they don't even make it to the yard for customers to get.

The car audio shops know all this so when a young fool pup comes
in to R&R his Infinity radio with a stereo, if he does not want his
Infinity system parts, the audio shops take them and sell them.

The VAST majority of GOOD cdplayer Infinity systems with the
5 band eq go straight to the insurance companies for radio
replacement.

Every once in a while you see one of these on Ebay that is
probably a good one, for example Ebay auction #5834287779.
But most of them are suspect, and even these can be easily
bid up to $150 or more. For example of
the silliness, check out Ebay auction #8017168057, the
seller flat out admits the radio is busted but there's STILL
one bid on it for $40, 4 days before the end of the auction!

In my Ebay opinion,
(I've bought over 400 items on Ebay, my feedback is all positive,
and I've been doing it since 1999, userID tmittelstaedt) based
on looking at the auctions descriptions and sellers info for
these Infinity systems for quite a while (I wanted a cd player
too, like you do) the vast majority of cdplayer Infinity systems
with the 5 band eq that go on Ebay have a failed cd drive. The sellers
don't tell
you this, they just ship the radio with shippers insurance, and
when you go to install it and find the cd drive broken, they tell
you to file a claim with the shipper because it must have been
damaged in transit. You then go to file a claim and the shipper
tells you that you have to show an invoice for the purchase of the
radio so they can get a dollar value. You show them the $150
that you paid the Ebay seller and they issue you a check for
$150 then take your Infinity radio (which they have a right to
do so) and you end up right back where you started from.

There are companies that sell (they claim) refurbished Infinity
radios on the Internet - prices are comparable to what you would
pay an audio store for a decent car radio - but they are warrentied
and you can find them on the Internet by searching Google. That
is your best hope to get a working cdplayer Infinity radio.

Here is my advice, if you are willing to take it.

STRONGLY consider gutting your existing Infinity system and
selling the components on Ebay - you will fetch a good price
for them - and put all new speakers and a new aftermarket radio
in. Put in good 2 way speakers in the dash holes, run thick cable
from them to your radio, and put a highpass filter on them, then
run a thick cable to a subwoofer and put that in a box under the
drivers seat and a lowpass filter on it. Don't use the existing
wiring and don't waste time trying to put speakers in the door or
in the rear deck or rear tailgate. The cost is a bit more than what
you think your going to pay on Ebay, but it will sound better and
you can probably play mp3s directly off the CD.

If you absolutely must have an Infinity, then do what I did -
find an Infinity CASSETTE player with the 5 band eq. For
example Ebay acution# 8017699153. Install that,
then buy a personal CD player with a car kit (cigarette lighter
plug and cassette adapter) you can probably get one for
$30. The sound quality will be the same as if you get an
Infinity system with the cd player, and when the thieves
break into your car to steal the cdplayer, they will not
destroy your dash getting the Infinity radio out. The Infinity
cassette players are on ebay, cost a quarter of the cdplayers,
and most of them are in great shape because a cassette
drive is a lot less fragile than a cdplayer mechanism. You
do have to beware of busted mounting tabs though, for
example the 8017699153 auction is missing the bottom
mounting tab.

In my case the reason I went with an Infinity in my used 94
T&C (which when I bought it, had had the original infinity
system gutted, replaced with an aftermarket, and that also
was missing) was so that it would be identical to my 95 T&C
which when I bought it came complete with a working Infinity
5 band eq and cassette head. The idea was to have them
both the same so if in the future a failure happened, I could
swap components to quickly find the problem. And I bought
my 5 band eq cassette system off Ebay as well. But if I hadn't
had that situation, I would have gone aftermarket.

And one last thing I will say - the Infinity system isn't worth
listening to unless you have the 5 band eq. That is one thing
you are right about. There is a very strong bass spike in
the 200 Hz range that makes the system sound like your sitting
in a 55 gallon drum if you have the volume up any appreciable
amount, and only the 5 band eq can adjust that out. The
fundamental problem with the system is the speakers are
2 way, not 3 way. If they had power-driven only a bass
subwoofer, and put a standard midrange and tweeter in,
instead of the power driven woofer that goes up to 1Khz
and a combo midrange-tweeter, the sound would have been
phenominal. Instead it's just like everyone elses 2-way
systems, and the power-driving of the woofer compounds
the 200Hz spike.

I only know the 2nd gen LH systems, so I may be trying to relate apples
to oranges. On the 2nd gen (rounded corner) Infinity systems, The head
units are all interchangealbe with Infinity and non-Infinity OEM
systems. The only difference in the Infinity and non-Infinity systems
is that in the non-Infinity systems, the head unit drives the speakers
directly. In the Infinity system, the same head unit will drive an
amplifier box that in turn is wired to the speakers (not sure if the
speakers are interchangeable - probably not, if only for power reasons).

I know the above because I bought an AM/FM/cassette/CD from a 300M owner
who had upgraded his Infinity system (with amplifier), and substituted
it into my Concorde's non-Infinity system (no amplifier), so that same
head unit drives the speakers directly, and does a fine job.

Again, if the vintage systems you guys are talking about are different
from what I described, then just ignore this.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

With apologies for the off-topic post, I wonder if any of you in Canada
might have or know where I could get one of the earlier (squarish)
Infinity AM/FM/CD units?

That'll be this one?
http://i1.ebayimg.com/01/i/00/7a/1d/9c_1_s.JPG

(There's also a version without a cassette player)

Couple years ago, a shop in Toronto decided it would be a good idea to
leave my truck on their forecourt with the doors wide open and the dash
all apart while they went to lunch. I found out about it when they called
me to ask whether or not the truck had a stereo when I dropped it off.
They obtained a replacement from a local wrecking yard. You can do
likewise by means of www.car-part.com (searchable used auto parts clear
across North America; you can confine your search area to Canada if you
wish). A bunch of them come up with a search on 1997 Chrysler LHS
radio/CD. Results are from all interchangeable years/models and are listed
in descending-price order.

I've also seen 'em on Ebay.

DS

 

[maxpower]

I only know the 2nd gen LH systems, so I may be trying to relate apples
to oranges. On the 2nd gen (rounded corner) Infinity systems, The head
units are all interchangealbe with Infinity and non-Infinity OEM
systems. The only difference in the Infinity and non-Infinity systems
is that in the non-Infinity systems, the head unit drives the speakers
directly. In the Infinity system, the same head unit will drive an
amplifier box that in turn is wired to the speakers (not sure if the
speakers are interchangeable - probably not, if only for power reasons).

I know the above because I bought an AM/FM/cassette/CD from a 300M owner
who had upgraded his Infinity system (with amplifier), and substituted
it into my Concorde's non-Infinity system (no amplifier), so that same
head unit drives the speakers directly, and does a fine job.

Again, if the vintage systems you guys are talking about are different
from what I described, then just ignore this.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

You are correct Bill

 

[Rick Yerke]

I have shipped lots of electronic stuff to Canada.The only way to ship is by
the USPS do not have anyone ship to you by UPS. .I fill out a small customs
form and mark item as gift ,no problems.Rick

 

[Ken Weitzel]

Yes, they are. The Infinity sytems use powered speakers, and you
cannot substitute a standard radio and use the Infinity speakers, you
have to replace the speakers when you replace the Infinity system

As a result of this there's a market for used, working Infinity radios
because quite a lot of people who have their Infinity radio stolen by
thieves, do not want to replace the entire system, they just want to
replace the radio.

Also, the Infinity speakers themselves are expensive to replace, so
quite a lot of people who have ONE speaker fail, want to buy
just a replacement, so there is also a market for used, working,
Infinity speakers.

I have been in every wrecking yard in my city that has
Chryslers, scavenging parts for my projects, and without fail
every single vehicle that comes into a wrecking yard with an
Infinity system has that system pulled within days. The speakers
are usually pulled within a week. Radios that have the 5 band
equalizer like you want, the yards themselves take those radios
out, they don't even make it to the yard for customers to get.

The car audio shops know all this so when a young fool pup comes
in to R&R his Infinity radio with a stereo, if he does not want his
Infinity system parts, the audio shops take them and sell them.

The VAST majority of GOOD cdplayer Infinity systems with the
5 band eq go straight to the insurance companies for radio
replacement.

Every once in a while you see one of these on Ebay that is
probably a good one, for example Ebay auction #5834287779.
But most of them are suspect, and even these can be easily
bid up to $150 or more. For example of
the silliness, check out Ebay auction #8017168057, the
seller flat out admits the radio is busted but there's STILL
one bid on it for $40, 4 days before the end of the auction!

In my Ebay opinion,
(I've bought over 400 items on Ebay, my feedback is all positive,
and I've been doing it since 1999, userID tmittelstaedt) based
on looking at the auctions descriptions and sellers info for
these Infinity systems for quite a while (I wanted a cd player
too, like you do) the vast majority of cdplayer Infinity systems
with the 5 band eq that go on Ebay have a failed cd drive. The sellers
don't tell
you this, they just ship the radio with shippers insurance, and
when you go to install it and find the cd drive broken, they tell
you to file a claim with the shipper because it must have been
damaged in transit. You then go to file a claim and the shipper
tells you that you have to show an invoice for the purchase of the
radio so they can get a dollar value. You show them the $150
that you paid the Ebay seller and they issue you a check for
$150 then take your Infinity radio (which they have a right to
do so) and you end up right back where you started from.

There are companies that sell (they claim) refurbished Infinity
radios on the Internet - prices are comparable to what you would
pay an audio store for a decent car radio - but they are warrentied
and you can find them on the Internet by searching Google. That
is your best hope to get a working cdplayer Infinity radio.

Here is my advice, if you are willing to take it.

STRONGLY consider gutting your existing Infinity system and
selling the components on Ebay - you will fetch a good price
for them - and put all new speakers and a new aftermarket radio
in. Put in good 2 way speakers in the dash holes, run thick cable
from them to your radio, and put a highpass filter on them, then
run a thick cable to a subwoofer and put that in a box under the
drivers seat and a lowpass filter on it. Don't use the existing
wiring and don't waste time trying to put speakers in the door or
in the rear deck or rear tailgate. The cost is a bit more than what
you think your going to pay on Ebay, but it will sound better and
you can probably play mp3s directly off the CD.

If you absolutely must have an Infinity, then do what I did -
find an Infinity CASSETTE player with the 5 band eq. For
example Ebay acution# 8017699153. Install that,
then buy a personal CD player with a car kit (cigarette lighter
plug and cassette adapter) you can probably get one for
$30. The sound quality will be the same as if you get an
Infinity system with the cd player, and when the thieves
break into your car to steal the cdplayer, they will not
destroy your dash getting the Infinity radio out. The Infinity
cassette players are on ebay, cost a quarter of the cdplayers,
and most of them are in great shape because a cassette
drive is a lot less fragile than a cdplayer mechanism. You
do have to beware of busted mounting tabs though, for
example the 8017699153 auction is missing the bottom
mounting tab.

In my case the reason I went with an Infinity in my used 94
T&C (which when I bought it, had had the original infinity
system gutted, replaced with an aftermarket, and that also
was missing) was so that it would be identical to my 95 T&C
which when I bought it came complete with a working Infinity
5 band eq and cassette head. The idea was to have them
both the same so if in the future a failure happened, I could
swap components to quickly find the problem. And I bought
my 5 band eq cassette system off Ebay as well. But if I hadn't
had that situation, I would have gone aftermarket.

And one last thing I will say - the Infinity system isn't worth
listening to unless you have the 5 band eq. That is one thing
you are right about. There is a very strong bass spike in
the 200 Hz range that makes the system sound like your sitting
in a 55 gallon drum if you have the volume up any appreciable
amount, and only the 5 band eq can adjust that out. The
fundamental problem with the system is the speakers are
2 way, not 3 way. If they had power-driven only a bass
subwoofer, and put a standard midrange and tweeter in,
instead of the power driven woofer that goes up to 1Khz
and a combo midrange-tweeter, the sound would have been
phenominal. Instead it's just like everyone elses 2-way
systems, and the power-driving of the woofer compounds
the 200Hz spike.

Ted

Hi Ted...

Thanks so much for so much valuable information... I appreciate it!

Here's where I am, and why. Bought my first ever non-GM car, a
'94 LHS a couple of months ago. Impeccable in almost every respect,
if you couldn't recognize the year you might well believe it to
be brand new. No exaggeration.

One of the few probs (also no drl's) was that the radio worked
perfectly in every respect but for no display. Given that was
very close to my trade until old age and several strokes caught up
with me, I tried to fix it to no avail.

Found on a Winnipeg newsgroup a working pull (non-infinity) from a 2000
minivan. Bought it for next to nothing, plugged it in, and the display
worked. But didn't sound anything like the infinity, and won't play
burned cd's.

So, several choices. Could stay as I am. Or could learn to live
without the display. Or could butcher the cheap one for its display
parts. Or go with your idea - to that end I have a bid in now (winning)
on an infinity cassette version. Closes in 3 days, though.

Or, given the fact that virtually all the display components are on the
top board, it's possible that the cassette and cd versions might be
swappable

Thanks again for you help, and take care.

Ken

 

[Ken Weitzel]

I only know the 2nd gen LH systems, so I may be trying to relate apples
to oranges. On the 2nd gen (rounded corner) Infinity systems, The head
units are all interchangealbe with Infinity and non-Infinity OEM
systems. The only difference in the Infinity and non-Infinity systems
is that in the non-Infinity systems, the head unit drives the speakers
directly. In the Infinity system, the same head unit will drive an
amplifier box that in turn is wired to the speakers (not sure if the
speakers are interchangeable - probably not, if only for power reasons).

I know the above because I bought an AM/FM/cassette/CD from a 300M owner
who had upgraded his Infinity system (with amplifier), and substituted
it into my Concorde's non-Infinity system (no amplifier), so that same
head unit drives the speakers directly, and does a fine job.

Again, if the vintage systems you guys are talking about are different
from what I described, then just ignore this.

Hi Bill...

This one is the "square" one; original 94 stuff. And I unknowingly
plugged a non-infinity radio into infinity speakers to have it work
fine. Didn't sound like the infinity, of course. But if I hadn't first
heard the infinity I'd have thought it was just fine

Take care.

Ken

 

[Ken Weitzel]

That'll be this one? http://i1.ebayimg.com/01/i/00/7a/1d/9c_1_s.JPG

(There's also a version without a cassette player)

Couple years ago, a shop in Toronto decided it would be a good idea to
leave my truck on their forecourt with the doors wide open and the dash
all apart while they went to lunch. I found out about it when they
called me to ask whether or not the truck had a stereo when I dropped it
off. They obtained a replacement from a local wrecking yard. You can do
likewise by means of www.car-part.com (searchable used auto parts clear
across North America; you can confine your search area to Canada if you
wish). A bunch of them come up with a search on 1997 Chrysler LHS
radio/CD. Results are from all interchangeable years/models and are
listed in descending-price order.

I've also seen 'em on Ebay.

Hi Daniel...

Nope, that's the non-infinity version. Easily spotted differences
are the infinity has 5 equalizer sliders (rather than three), and
the infinity says infinity or infinity gold on or near the display.

I checked out your site; seems there's a couple available in the
Toronto-ish area, but the cheapest is 275 bucks... a lot of money

Thanks, and take care.

Ken

 

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

I only know the 2nd gen LH systems, so I may be trying to relate apples
to oranges. On the 2nd gen (rounded corner) Infinity systems, The head
units are all interchangealbe with Infinity and non-Infinity OEM
systems.

The same is true with the first gen Infinity and non-Infinity systems,
the speaker pinout is the same on the connectors on the back.

The only difference in the Infinity and non-Infinity systems

is that in the non-Infinity systems, the head unit drives the speakers
directly. In the Infinity system, the same head unit will drive an
amplifier box that in turn is wired to the speakers (not sure if the
speakers are interchangeable - probably not, if only for power reasons).

I believe in some Infinity systems they
moved the amplifier box from the speakers in the tailgate and doors
to a single box located under the passenger seat, or in the trunk, or
some such. But I might be wrong.

I know the above because I bought an AM/FM/cassette/CD from a 300M owner
who had upgraded his Infinity system (with amplifier), and substituted
it into my Concorde's non-Infinity system (no amplifier), so that same
head unit drives the speakers directly, and does a fine job.

You can drive the non-infinity speakers from an infinity system but
your going to get reduced volume because the radio is expecting the
woofers to be powered by an amp. It will also kill bass response.
But for old-fart type of programming (big band, talk radio, am radio,
all run at very reduced volume) you undoubtedly won't notice it. For
young pup type programming (hip hop and rap at full volume) you
will definitely notice it. ;-)

Going the other way, driving infinity speakers from a non infinity
system, should in theory work OK, although if you overdrive the
amp input you will get distortion. Once again, this won't affect
old fart programming but will definitely affect young pup programming.

Symphonic programming will be ruined either way - the soft passages
will sound fine, the loud passages will be weak or distorted.

Again, if the vintage systems you guys are talking about are different
from what I described, then just ignore this.

I think the electrical is the same until sometime after 2000 when they went
to some other system.

Ted

 

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Here's where I am, and why. Bought my first ever non-GM car, a
'94 LHS a couple of months ago. Impeccable in almost every respect,
if you couldn't recognize the year you might well believe it to
be brand new. No exaggeration.

One of the few probs (also no drl's) was that the radio worked
perfectly in every respect but for no display. Given that was
very close to my trade until old age and several strokes caught up
with me, I tried to fix it to no avail.

Found on a Winnipeg newsgroup a working pull (non-infinity) from a 2000
minivan. Bought it for next to nothing, plugged it in, and the display
worked. But didn't sound anything like the infinity, and won't play
burned cd's.

Hmmm - maybe you can swap with Bill Putney's infinity? ;-)

Before you write that off make sure your playing CD's mastered Disk At
Once, and NOT multisession. But most likely it's because the laser
diode isn't the right color.

I would be very surprised if not stunned if the cd player in the infinity
used a different setup than the non-infinity cd player.

So, several choices. Could stay as I am. Or could learn to live
without the display. Or could butcher the cheap one for its display
parts. Or go with your idea - to that end I have a bid in now (winning)
on an infinity cassette version. Closes in 3 days, though.

Or, given the fact that virtually all the display components are on the
top board, it's possible that the cassette and cd versions might be
swappable

I think not because I think there's some additional info displayed on the
CD display.

You could probably find an infinity that's the exact same model as the
one you have with the shot display, and use it for parts, and get a single
working unit out of it. Or not. Me, I've got really tired with taking
apart car radios anymore, they seem made to be assembled once then
never taken apart again.

Circuit City is selling a personal CD player that also plays data CDs that
have mp3s burned to them, with anti-skip, complete with a car kit (the
cassette and cigarette adapter) from Circuit City for $26.00

They are selling the car kit adapter alone for $29.99. Go figure.

Walmart is selling the same thing except that it doesen't play mp3s
but it does have a remote control, for about $24

Ted

 

[Bill Putney]

The same is true with the first gen Infinity and non-Infinity systems,
the speaker pinout is the same on the connectors on the back.

The only difference in the Infinity and non-Infinity systems



I believe in some Infinity systems they
moved the amplifier box from the speakers in the tailgate and doors
to a single box located under the passenger seat, or in the trunk, or
some such. But I might be wrong.

That is definitely true of all 2nd gen. LH cars. All amplifiers are
stand-alone boxes located in either the front passenger side kick panel
or in the trunk depending on which Infinity system (I or II) it has.

You can drive the non-infinity speakers from an infinity system but
your going to get reduced volume because the radio is expecting the
woofers to be powered by an amp.

The head unit is expecting a certain impedance - which it sees whether
it is driving the speakers directly or driving an intermediate
amplifier. The inputs to the amplifier are designed to look like a
speaker to the head unit - that's circuit design 101. The head unit is
expecting a certain impedance, and it doesn't know a speaker from an
amplifier if the amplifier is designed properly.

I do not think the output drivers are different on the different head
units. The head unit drives my speakers directly with Fleetwood Mac
cranked up just fine. Certainly not with the same combination of volume
and clarity that amplifier-driven speakers could do, but that is
inherent in the presence (and wattage/design) or absence of the
intermediate amplifier - not dependent on the head unit - that is the
purpose of the amplifier.

It will also kill bass response.
But for old-fart type of programming (big band, talk radio, am radio,
all run at very reduced volume) you undoubtedly won't notice it. For
young pup type programming (hip hop and rap at full volume) you
will definitely notice it. ;-)

Did you just call me an old fart?

Again - a function of the presence and specs. of the amplifier. Head
unit output is the same. Plug a given head unit directly into speakers
with the volume control at a given setting, you will get a certain
volume out of the speakers. Unplug the speakers and insert an amplifier
between the head unit and speakers with the volume control at the same
setting, and it will be louder (or less distorted if the volume control
is adjusted for the same volume as withou the amplifier). Of course, a
system with an amplifier should have higher wattage speakers in it so
they don't blow out the first time the young pup cranks it up - they
should wait for the 6th or 7th such occurrence to blow (or conversely,
the non-amplified system will have cheaper speakers in it because the
owner deserves to be punished for not spending the money on a better
system).

Going the other way, driving infinity speakers from a non infinity
system, should in theory work OK, although if you overdrive the
amp input you will get distortion. Once again, this won't affect
old fart programming but will definitely affect young pup programming.

At a given volume, the base head unit will simply not have the CD player
and/or the 5-band equalizer. Getting the higher-end OEM head unit in
the infinity system will simply add those features (which is what I did
(except the 2nd gen. is only a 3-band equalizer - I just wanted
AM/FM/Cassette/CD). The volume level and distortion (or lack of it) is
no different with the head unit with 2-band equalizer without CD player
that came in my car than with the head unit with CD player and 3-band
equalizer that came out of a 300M with Infinity system that I stuck in
its place.

Symphonic programming will be ruined either way - the soft passages
will sound fine, the loud passages will be weak or distorted.

Still no difference in head unit output drivers. Infinity system simply
tends to come with head untis with more features (same output drivers),
amplifier, and higher wattage speakers (due to amplifier - not due to
head unit output capability).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

[philthy]

boy oh boy u talk more shit
the infinity speakers can be powered up with a aftermarket radio if u use
the correct direct wire replacement jumper harness that can even be bough
at walmart provided it does not run over the ccd/pci or can bus circuit

 

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

That is definitely true of all 2nd gen. LH cars. All amplifiers are
stand-alone boxes located in either the front passenger side kick panel
or in the trunk depending on which Infinity system (I or II) it has.

In that kind of system then that's different than the pre-1996? Infinity
systems (rectangular, not rounded corners) because you would have amp
outputs that go on a single pair to the speakers, and the speakers would
be standard, no difference between Infinity style and non-Infinity style
save
the nameplate.

With the Infinity systems that are the earlier ones, at least up through
1995
and possibly later, you get 2 pairs that go to the speakers, a + and -, and
a "speaker" pair. The speaker pair drives a standard midrange/high speaker
which is presumably at 4,8 or 16 ohms, plus an amplifier wired in parallel
that is mounted on the speaker and that drives the woofer. (and is powered
by the -, + pair) and like any transistorized amp, has high
impedance inputs.

The head unit is expecting a certain impedance - which it sees whether
it is driving the speakers directly or driving an intermediate
amplifier.

Yes, that is true of the Infinity systems that use a -single- trunk or
side-kick panel amplifier. It is not true of the Infinity systems that
use Infinity speakers which have amplifiers mounted on -each-
speaker.

Keep in mind also that transistorized amps run fine without seeing a
load, unlike tube amplifiers. You can take the speaker outputs of
a transistorized amp and plug them into the high impediance inputs
of a second amplifier and everything works.

I do not think the output drivers are different on the different head
units. The head unit drives my speakers directly with Fleetwood Mac
cranked up just fine.

Because your Infinity speakers are not the kind of Infinity speakers that
the OP has in his -94, those Infinity speakers are the older type with
individual amps mounted on the speakers

Of course, Fleetwood Mac isn't known for using a lot of bass in
their music, it isn't a good music test source.

The best music test sources are hip-hop/rap, and symphonic.
These have large amounts of bass and treble at the extreme ends
of the range of audibility. However they require a more trained
ear. The public generally cannot tell the difference between clean
or distorted sound from an orchestral piece with a guy whaling away
at a set of kettle drums, nor can it tell the difference between clean
or distorted sound from a hip-hop piece with a strong bass synthesizer
in it.

Of course, a
system with an amplifier should have higher wattage speakers in it so
they don't blow out the first time the young pup cranks it up - they
should wait for the 6th or 7th such occurrence to blow (or conversely,
the non-amplified system will have cheaper speakers in it because the
owner deserves to be punished for not spending the money on a better
system).

I think the trend in car audio speakers designed for the young pups is
to design the speakers so the cones are very stiff, and the speakers
require a lot of power to drive. Also, they go with round speakers
and adapters in the 6x9 opening.

Sound is great, if you have the wattage for it, because the round speaker
cones are stronger than oval, and less likely to distort at extreme
excursions, also the stiffer cones resist this better than the usual paper
ovals.

You know, of course, that the bass is what uses the highest wattage
available from the amp.

Still no difference in head unit output drivers. Infinity system simply
tends to come with head untis with more features (same output drivers),
amplifier, and higher wattage speakers (due to amplifier - not due to
head unit output capability).

I think that Infinity actually meant something with the older systems, in
the newer systems it appears to be nothing other than a marketing
label with little electrical differences.

When you remove the amps mounted on each speaker and put them
into a single unit driven from a head unit, the setup is exactly the same
as if you just had a big amp inside the head unit itself.

I think the promise of the original Infinity systems is that the idea was
with high volume bass you have very large currents for cone excursion,
and if the amp is mounted on the speaker, you do not have line losses
in the speaker wires. Once you move the amp away from the speaker,
like in the systems you've seen, then there's no point in having the amp
separate from the head unit.

The frustrating part of all this is the Infinity system is NOT well
documented
in the factory service manual so it's difficult to understand what they
are doing unless you take apart things.

Ted

 

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

boy oh boy u talk more shit

Shut your fat ugly face, dickwad.

the infinity speakers can be powered up with a aftermarket radio if u use
the correct direct wire replacement jumper harness that can even be bough
at walmart

Oh sure, the $7 harness from Walmart is going to preserve the steering
wheel and rear seat audio controls on the newer Mopars, right, sure!

Go away and smoke some more pipeweed.

The original poster said "earlier (squarish) Infinity AM/FM/CD units"
then followed this up with a date - 1994. That vintage uses different
speakers than the later systems. I never said it won't work at all,
dipshit, I said it won't work well. Of course, people who buy wiring
harnesses at Walmart typically don't give a shittaux if their radio sounds
good or like crap.

My post responded to the OP's specific Infinity setup, not to
every Infinity system ever made. Since there's been quite vast
differences, a $7 wiring harness can't cross from " '89-up" like
the Wallmart one claims. It can do a subset of these, but not
all. And it can't do the OP's unless he is happy with reduced
quality sound output.

provided it does not run over the ccd/pci or can bus circuit

More shittaux, because REAL wiring harness adapters exist that
CAN handle this, see the SW1 from these guys:

http://www.pac-audio.com/products/swi.htm

"The SWI-CAN is an add-on module for use with the SWI-X, SWI-ALP
or SWI-PS. It is used for steering wheels that use a dual wire CAN bus to
control the factory radio
Vehicles currently supported: 2004-2006 Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep"

Ted

 

[Joe]

In that kind of system then that's different than the pre-1996?
Infinity systems (rectangular, not rounded corners) because you
would have amp outputs that go on a single pair to the speakers, and
the speakers would be standard, no difference between Infinity style
and non-Infinity style save
the nameplate.

With the Infinity systems that are the earlier ones, at least up
through 1995
and possibly later, you get 2 pairs that go to the speakers, a + and
-, and a "speaker" pair. The speaker pair drives a standard
midrange/high speaker which is presumably at 4,8 or 16 ohms, plus an
amplifier wired in parallel that is mounted on the speaker and that
drives the woofer. (and is powered by the -, + pair) and like any
transistorized amp, has high impedance inputs.


Yes, that is true of the Infinity systems that use a -single- trunk
or side-kick panel amplifier. It is not true of the Infinity systems
that use Infinity speakers which have amplifiers mounted on -each-
speaker.

Keep in mind also that transistorized amps run fine without seeing a
load, unlike tube amplifiers. You can take the speaker outputs of
a transistorized amp and plug them into the high impediance inputs
of a second amplifier and everything works.


Because your Infinity speakers are not the kind of Infinity speakers
that the OP has in his -94, those Infinity speakers are the older
type with individual amps mounted on the speakers

Of course, Fleetwood Mac isn't known for using a lot of bass in
their music, it isn't a good music test source.

The best music test sources are hip-hop/rap, and symphonic.
These have large amounts of bass and treble at the extreme ends
of the range of audibility. However they require a more trained
ear. The public generally cannot tell the difference between clean
or distorted sound from an orchestral piece with a guy whaling away
at a set of kettle drums, nor can it tell the difference between
clean or distorted sound from a hip-hop piece with a strong bass
synthesizer in it.




I think the trend in car audio speakers designed for the young pups
is to design the speakers so the cones are very stiff, and the
speakers require a lot of power to drive. Also, they go with round
speakers and adapters in the 6x9 opening.

Sound is great, if you have the wattage for it, because the round
speaker cones are stronger than oval, and less likely to distort at
extreme excursions, also the stiffer cones resist this better than
the usual paper ovals.

You know, of course, that the bass is what uses the highest wattage
available from the amp.


I think that Infinity actually meant something with the older
systems, in the newer systems it appears to be nothing other than a
marketing label with little electrical differences.

When you remove the amps mounted on each speaker and put them
into a single unit driven from a head unit, the setup is exactly the
same as if you just had a big amp inside the head unit itself.

I think the promise of the original Infinity systems is that the idea
was with high volume bass you have very large currents for cone
excursion, and if the amp is mounted on the speaker, you do not have
line losses in the speaker wires. Once you move the amp away from
the speaker, like in the systems you've seen, then there's no point
in having the amp separate from the head unit.

The frustrating part of all this is the Infinity system is NOT well
documented
in the factory service manual so it's difficult to understand what
they are doing unless you take apart things.

Ted

Ted, you are absolutely correct. The newer Infinity system (I have an
'03 Dakota) is garbage. My RAZ head unit (which is not 'Infinity')
runs speaker leads into the Infinity amp, which then runs to each
speaker.

The Infinity amp in my kick panel is very heavily eq'd to compensate
for the lousy sound of the Infinity speakers. It only puts out about
12 watts RMS, and the distortion figure is something ridiculous like 2%
THD. Sounds ok if you're listening at conversation level with the
truck turned off, but forget it if you're driving with the windows
open.

Why anyone would want to keep the stock system is beyond me, as it's
nowhere near what you could get with aftermarket components. It only
took me a month to blow out 2 of the 4 speakers after replacing the
Infinity kick panel amp with a 45-watt RMS x 4 Sony amp. Now I'm
saving up to get some Polk components for the fronts, and I'm going to
run the Sony bridged so that I can run around 100 watts RMS to each
front speaker. Should be nice and clean regardless of the volume.

The only reasons I'm keeping the OEM head unit are: (a) The steering
wheel controls are great, and (b) I want to retain the stock
appearance. When it goes (I'm on my 2nd one under warranty btw), I
plan to get an HD receiver.

Regards,
Joe