Opinions on T&C Minivan Brake Rotors & Disc Pads

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Bob Shuman, Aug 24, 2005.

  1. Bob Shuman

    Bob Shuman Guest

    I'm getting ready to do my wife's front brakes again on the 1999 T&C
    Minivan. It has 69K miles and this will be the third time the front pads
    and second time the rotors have needed to be replaced. The last couple of
    times I've gone with Raybestos Quiet Stop pads and their PG Plus rotors (I
    got away with resurfacing them last time around). Despite carefully
    torquing all the wheel lugs each and every time the wheels have been
    removed, they have not worn particularly well and with just 27K miles the
    pulsing has become unbearable, the stopping distance is absolutely terrible,
    and the pads are worn down so will need replacing very shortly. (I plan to
    do it when I get time come early September...)

    I'd like to hear opinions/experiences on the Wagner line of Severe Duty
    front disc pads as well as the Raybestos Brute Stop and Super Stop compared
    with the current Quiet Stop pads I have been using. Also, any feedback on
    the Wagner rotors as compared to the Raybestos rotors would also be
    appreciated.

    The van sees a lot of short haul stop and go driving and adding to that is
    the fact that my wife is pretty hard on the brakes to begin with... To be
    clear, I would like to accomplish the following in priority order: 1)
    provide minimum stopping distance as this van is too heavy and does not stop
    well to begin with, 2) eliminate/minimize the disc squeal when braking, 3)
    minimize time before rotor warpage/pulsing, 4) maximize time between pad
    changes and rotor resurfacing, and 5) minimize brake dust staining on the
    chrome wheels. Thanks in advance to all for their thoughts.

    Bob
     
    Bob Shuman, Aug 24, 2005
    #1
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  2. Bob,

    I have always gone with the cheapest pads I can find, yes it generates
    brake dust,
    yes they wear out quick. A lot quicker than 27k miles. But overall I save
    money
    doing the brakes a couple more times than people who buy the long life pads.
    And
    best of all I never have to bother with resurfacing the rotors because the
    rotors do
    not get chewed up by the cheaper and softer pads. Putting new pads on is a
    snap,
    it takes longer to change into suitable clothes and jack up the van and
    remove the
    tires than to change the pads. And I don't care that the wheels are dirtier
    with the
    brake dust, nobody sees them on the highway anyhow.

    At any rate, if you feel your going through front pads faster then you
    should I
    urge you to also do the rear brakes at the same time. Even though the rear
    brakes supposedly only have 10% of the stopping power than the fronts, if
    they aren't up to snuff it is incredible how quick the fronts will wear out.
    And
    if your rears are drum brakes it is really easy to see 50% left on the shoes
    and
    figure they are fine - when in reality the vehicle side of the shoe is worn
    almost
    completely out. And also another thing with drums is that drums seem to
    wear
    into a cone-shape and as a result the braking force gets concentrated near
    the
    top of the cone not spread equally over the drum - so the effectiveness of
    older rear drum brakes is terrible vn with brand new shoes. Whenever you do
    drum
    brakes you must check them for runout, even if they look fine with no
    grooves
    theye probably neeed turning.

    Ted
     
    Ted Mittelstaedt, Aug 24, 2005
    #2
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  3. Bob Shuman

    Bill Putney Guest

    I think pads are the culprit in many of the situations like this where
    we automatically assume the rotor is the problem - even for vibration
    that we assume is rotor warp - I think it is often pad filming issues.

    Try a set of Performance Friction Z-Ratedâ„¢ pads.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
     
    Bill Putney, Aug 24, 2005
    #3
  4. Bob Shuman

    jdoe Guest

    Are your rear brakes working properly? I have to say I have no problems with
    either stopping power or excess wear & tear on our 99 T&C LTD. OUr driving
    is more suburban to semi-rural at times but my wife is very hard on the van.
    Even towing didn't phase it's stopping power. There may be some other
    underlying cause here. I'd start with the backs. As the wheel cylinders have
    a bad habit of rusting internally and causing the balance of braking to
    shift overly to the fronts.
    Larry
     
    jdoe, Aug 24, 2005
    #4
  5. Bob Shuman

    Matt Whiting Guest

    Unfortunately, I didn't replace my pads and rotors last time my van
    needed service as it was in for inspection so I told the garage to go
    ahead and do the work. I don't know which manufacturer of parts they
    used specifically, but I know they bought both rotors and pads at the
    local NAPA shop. I'm guessing NAPA has a range of parts so I realize
    that doesn't narrow it down for you.

    These parts are holding up better than the previous OEM parts did. No
    pulsing in the pedal after more than 20,000 miles and the pads look to
    have at least 70% of the material left. And the braking performance is
    very good.

    I think the only solution to your problem is to teach your wife that the
    brake pedal is a more like a rheostat than a switch. She doesn't need
    to brake at 100% authority at every stop light. She can begin to coast
    to a stop when the light turns red and only brake towards the end. :)

    To help encourage this, give her the bill for the new brakes and tell
    her to think about the nice candle lit dinner this could have bought at
    your local fancy restaurant!

    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, Aug 24, 2005
    #5
  6. Bob Shuman

    Bob Shuman Guest

    Bill,

    Who makes these performance pads? Are they quiet or will they squeal (my
    wife will make me take them off if they are noisy.) Thanks.

    Bob
     
    Bob Shuman, Aug 24, 2005
    #6
  7. Bob Shuman

    Bob Shuman Guest

    Matt, Thanks for the response. My local NAPA offers Raybestos, Wagner, and
    Taiwanese import white box rotors. I went with Raybestos based on previous
    advice/recommendations in this newsgroup and they did fine from a warpage
    standpoint for the first set of pads. I had them resurfaced and now they
    are giving the trouble with the second set so that is why this time, even
    though they could probably get resurfaced, I will go for replacement again.
    Was just hoping Wagner might be a better choice or possibly might get
    different results with different braking material/pads.

    And, yes, I know technique is part of the problem here, but there is no
    chance this will change with any amount of "instruction" or "coercion".

    Bob
     
    Bob Shuman, Aug 24, 2005
    #7
  8. Bob Shuman

    Bob Shuman Guest

    Everything looks fine mechanically in the rears, and they are adjusted up
    such that the emergency/parking brake works fine and stops the vehicle from
    slower speed tests. I always thought it was just not proportioned properly
    directly from the factory.

    Bob
     
    Bob Shuman, Aug 24, 2005
    #8
  9. Bob Shuman

    Bob Shuman Guest

    Ted,

    Thanks for the insight on your alternative strategy. On my T&C, first, the
    27K was a typo, as it has now been just 17K miles. Based on the remaining
    thickness, I could probably get another 5-8K miles out of them, but the
    warpage is too bad so they will need to get done sooner. I have averaged
    about 23K per disc pad set on the fronts.

    As to the rear brake shoes, I got 51.6K out of those and they still look
    near new. I did turn the drums at that time. I do believe the front brakes
    do about 70% of the stopping on this van.

    Bob
     
    Bob Shuman, Aug 24, 2005
    #9
  10. Bob Shuman

    Bill Putney Guest

    Performance Friction is the manufacturer.

    http://www.performancefriction.com/pages/about_pfc.htm

    http://www.performancefriction.com/pages/pad_type.htm

    Unfortunately their web site is no help in finding the Z-Rated part for
    a particular vehicle - best to call them. In playing with their parts
    identifier feature for my car, which I know they make the Z-Rated for
    (they're on my car now), only their carbon metallics seem to come up.

    I have not had a bit of noise from them on my Concorde.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
     
    Bill Putney, Aug 25, 2005
    #10
  11. Bob Shuman

    Matt Whiting Guest

    Your wife will make you take them off, eh? Methinks I now understand
    your REAL problem.


    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, Aug 25, 2005
    #11
  12. Bob Shuman

    jdoe Guest

    It doesn't pay to resurface rotors. My jobber doesn't even do it anymore.
    There just isn't enough material in the newer stuff anymore and they can be
    replaced too cheaply. I simply put rotors/drums on every time I do
    pads/shoes.
    Larry
     
    jdoe, Aug 25, 2005
    #12
  13. Bob Shuman

    KWS Guest

    KWS, Sep 25, 2005
    #13
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