Non-serviceable front wheel bearing - only words in manual - throwaway van?

1994 voyager 3.0 liter mitsubishi, 2-wheel drive, compact, short
minivan

the manual says "permanently sealed non-serviceable" and not one word
more.

come on!!!, what does one do with a bad front wheel bearing? throw away
the van?

it's there, if you listen for it. one tire has some cupping on the
outside but probably from the bearing going bad? it's the right front.
if i turn to the left, the sound is more pronounced and obvious from
the right front wheel.

why does the manual not say what to do?

i noticed this is in chapter 5 of the manual.

fine, there is no chapter 4!!! it's missing. there is a chaper 0
great, chaper 0 which looks like Chapter "O" instead of "0"
maybe chapter 4 had front wheel bearings? nope, also missing in
manual's index.
unbelievable. not any mention of a chapter 4.
what is wrong with these people? they can't count from 1 to 10???

anyway the manual only says "permanently sealed non-serviceable."

does this mean i throw away my minivan now?

if it's not serviceable why is one quote i have for a replacement $90
with $145 labor, about 1 1/2 hours at $79/hour? high, low, medium?

any ideas?

did tire rotations, taking tires off, swapping, looking, it is a wheel
bearing caught very early. if i wait, it will be loud enough not to
miss. surprised at the expense, over twice a regular, pressed wheel
bearing.

 

Yes and it is

You can if you want, me... I would replace the non serviceable wheel
bearing with another non serviceable wheel bearing and keep the van.
Non serviceable means you cant service it, such as remove it and grease it,
It doesnt say non replaceable.

If you are talking about the factory service manuals the reason is because
you dont have the complete set for that vehicle, there may be 32 other books
with the rest of the chapters missing.

And it is correct

Yup, read above

I hope your not going to attempt the repair on this vehicle, have someone
that can read a service manual do the job.

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

 

That's for your witty but somewhat demeaning reply, still appreciated.
Look, how can one purchase the main shop manual and it leaves out how
to replace the front wheel bearings? That's just stupid. It does say
how to replace the rear wheel bearings. So why not the front?

Last time I looked, my van had 4 wheels

Come on, that's just Chrysler for you.

 

1994 voyager 3.0 liter mitsubishi, 2-wheel drive, compact, short
minivan

the manual says "permanently sealed non-serviceable" and not one word
more.

come on!!!, what does one do with a bad front wheel bearing? throw away
the van?

it's there, if you listen for it. one tire has some cupping on the
outside but probably from the bearing going bad? it's the right front.
if i turn to the left, the sound is more pronounced and obvious from
the right front wheel.

why does the manual not say what to do?

i noticed this is in chapter 5 of the manual.

fine, there is no chapter 4!!! it's missing. there is a chaper 0
great, chaper 0 which looks like Chapter "O" instead of "0"
maybe chapter 4 had front wheel bearings? nope, also missing in
manual's index.
unbelievable. not any mention of a chapter 4.
what is wrong with these people? they can't count from 1 to 10???

anyway the manual only says "permanently sealed non-serviceable."

does this mean i throw away my minivan now?

if it's not serviceable why is one quote i have for a replacement $90
with $145 labor, about 1 1/2 hours at $79/hour? high, low, medium?

any ideas?

did tire rotations, taking tires off, swapping, looking, it is a wheel
bearing caught very early. if i wait, it will be loud enough not to
miss. surprised at the expense, over twice a regular, pressed wheel
bearing.

Yes and it is

You can if you want, me... I would replace the non serviceable wheel
bearing with another non serviceable wheel bearing and keep the van.
Non serviceable means you cant service it, such as remove it and grease
it,
It doesnt say non replaceable.

If you are talking about the factory service manuals the reason is
because
you dont have the complete set for that vehicle, there may be 32 other
books
with the rest of the chapters missing.

And it is correct

Yup, read above

I hope your not going to attempt the repair on this vehicle, have someone
that can read a service manual do the job.

Glenn Beasley

That's for your witty but somewhat demeaning reply, still appreciated.
Look, how can one purchase the main shop manual and it leaves out how
to replace the front wheel bearings? That's just stupid. It does say
how to replace the rear wheel bearings. So why not the front?

Last time I looked, my van had 4 wheels

Come on, that's just Chrysler for you.

Typo on how many books there are, it should read 3 possible manual
Any way, my witty but somewhat reply was just answering your witty but
somewhat post!! If you want to toss your van away becuase of a bad wheel
bearing and not expect to be flammed later on with replys it wont happen
in here.
Im sure all the manufactures dont have one book in all, If it says how to
do the rear bearings and not the front, once again, with out seeing what
manual you have in your possession now, maybe you dont have the set that
includes front suspension

 

I was kidding a little before. This is the first time I saw an omission
like that in the main shop manual. For this car, there's only about 10
manuals, and the others are not referencing this. They are for the
transmission or diagnostics.

You have to admit it's a bit peculiar and funny. Really it is. Why tell
me about the rear wheels and leave out the front wheels? And it's not
that much actual steps. Not like rebuilding a tranny or something.

In fact, here are all the manuals for this vehicle that are for sale
from Chrysler to end users:

1994-1995 AA/AS Body Communications Diagnostic Manual $13 + tax +
shipping = $18.73 seems like a good deal whatever it is

81-699-94015 1994-1995 CHRYSLER TOWN & COUNTRY, PLYMOUTH VOYAGER,
DODGE CARAVAN (AA/AS BODY COMMUNICATIONS) DIAGNOSTIC MANUAL.

81-370-4105 1994 CARAVAN, VOYAGER, TOWN & COUNTRY (AS) SERVICE MANUAL
$59.00 $9.95 shipping + tax, 6%. Lots in stock as of 2/8/05.

81-370-4105CD 1994 CARAVAN, VOYAGER, TOWN & COUNTRY (AS) SERVICE
MANUAL ON CD $90.00

81-026-9418 1994 VOYAGER OWNERS MANUAL $10

81-699-95054 1994 TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETINS $24.00

2002 TSB/SERVICE INFORMATION TUNEUPS ON $33.00

2002 TSB/SERVICE INFORMATION TUNEUPS ON CD-ROM

1993/94 41TE/AE TRANSAXLE $11.00

1989-1998 41 TE/AE TRANSAXLE SUPERBOOK
$17.00

1989-1998 41 TE/AE TRANSAXLE SUPERBOOK DIAGNOSTIC MANUAL This manual
covers vehicles equipped with the 41TE and 41AE Transaxles.

81-699-94005 1993-1995 3.0L MMC ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION (SFI)
DIAGNOSTIC MANUAL $11.00

81-699-94017 1993-1995 DRIVER & PASSENGER AIR BAG (CCD
COMMUNICATIONS) DIAGNOSTIC MANUAL $7.00

As you can see, in 1994, there's only one manual, that is, main shop
manual. And it was just left out, like Chapter 4. If it's not in the
main manual, it won't be in the others.

It's not going to be in the tranny? And if it were in another manual,
should there not have been a reference?

Nope, it's just a mistake on their part I would bet.

 

In rec.autos.makers.chrysler on 20 Aug 2005 03:18:04 -0700

I wouldn't wait too long. Long time ago, I had damaged a stud or two,
by driving when the lug nuts were loose (I heard the noise but thought
it was a front wheel bearing (RWD car) Since I didn't know have the
tools to replace them, I knew better but I just took a hub from a
junkyard and put that on, mixing the old inner race of the bearing
with the new outer race. Shouldn't do that.

I drove around town for a day or two with no problem, and on the third
day I set out for Chicago. I had a rider, and she was driving, and
she said she heard a noise when she went straight, but not if she
turned the wheel a little. I drove, and voila, the same thing.

Pulled onto the shoulder and the right front wheel hub was burning
hot. I think I coudl tell even without touching it. But I could see
the expressway ramp only two blocks away and at the top was a gas
station. But he told me he couldn't do it. I had to go to the dealer.
He said the GM dealer was 5 minutes away, in Mercer, Pennsylvania.
Got there and the first thing he did was look at the clock, 20 till 5.

He started. The bearing had melted and fused to the spindle. He
couldn't do it. Called his boss, who used an acetylene torch. Said
the spindle often got ruined when this was done, but mine came out
fine.

Then he didn't have some part he needed. I wish I could remember what
it was. Maybe a hub, since maybe the other half of the bearing was
fused to the hub. Fortunately, I was at least competent enough to
have all the parts I had removed with me in the trunk.

He was done by 15 after. I apologized for keeping him late, but he
said it was fine. He lived only five minutes away. Didn't charge me
for any parts and the rest was very cheap too. Wasted less than an
hour.



As to manuals, you have to read them with a grain of salt.

As I said, I didn't have the tools to replace the studs, because the
shop manual said that wheel studs had to be removed and installed with
a hydraulic press. Later when I broke off more studs on a different
wheel or car, I asked a random question (it's always good to ask a
question, even if it is the wrong one. If I hadn't, the guy would
have assumed I knew what I was doing and would have said nothing), and
the guy at Atlantic Wheel and Rim told me that NO ONE uses a hydraulic
press. They punch the old studs out with a hammer and a drift, and
they put the new ones in by sticking them through the hole, attaching
the lug nut, and tightening it down with a wrench. I had to replace 4
studs on one hub. It worked fine and took less than a half-hour iirc.

Another thing the shop manual said was, to remove the rear half-axle
on my rear-wheel-drive car, I should attach an axle puller, part
number W-4532-c. I didn't have one and I was out of town, so put the
car on a safety stand, took off the wheel and pulled. It came out
eassier than taking the cap off a pen. No tools. The manual didn't
say "if necessary".

And many of the instructions in manuals stay the same year after year.




If you email me, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
If necessary, change domain to erols.com.

Directions are given as if you know nothing.
There's a big range here but I don't know who knows what.

 

There is more then one manual. you dont have the drivabilty book, thats
seperate, you dont have the trans book, thats seperate and I know you dont
have the Body book which is also seperate, You may not have the wire
schematics in your manual either, im not sure but like I said, there are
several manuals for all vehicles

 

That's true.

No, replace the wheel bearing(s). Or, if you prefer parts changing to
actual repair work, replace the hub-and-bearing assembly. Either which
way, your option. Take a stroll through www.rockauto.com and amaze
yourself at the availability of replacement parts you think don't exist.

$90 for a wheel bearing and hub assembly, and a great deal more labor than
is warranted.

 

It's the wheel bearing itself that's a non-serviceable item. It is,
however, replaceable. You take the steering knuckle to NAPA, they
press out the old bearing and press in a new one.

 

I gather you missed my previous post in which I list all the manuals
available for this vehicle?

I don't follow your criticism. You don't think the main shop manual
should omit any reference to where to go to replace a front wheel
bearing?

Here are all the manuals for sale from Chrysler in regard to my 1994:

81-699-94015 1994-1995 CHRYSLER TOWN & COUNTRY, PLYMOUTH VOYAGER,
DODGE CARAVAN (AA/AS BODY COMMUNICATIONS) DIAGNOSTIC MANUAL.

81-370-4105 1994 CARAVAN, VOYAGER, TOWN & COUNTRY (AS) SERVICE
MANUAL
$59.00 $9.95 shipping + tax, 6%.
81-370-4105CD 1994 CARAVAN, VOYAGER, TOWN & COUNTRY (AS) SERVICE
MANUAL ON CD $90.00

81-026-9418 1994 VOYAGER OWNERS MANUAL $10

81-699-95054 1994 TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETINS $24.00
2002 TSB/SERVICE INFORMATION TUNEUPS ON $33.00
2002 TSB/SERVICE INFORMATION TUNEUPS ON CD-ROM

1993/94 41TE/AE TRANSAXLE $11.00
1989-1998 41 TE/AE TRANSAXLE SUPERBOOK $17.00
1989-1998 41 TE/AE TRANSAXLE SUPERBOOK DIAGNOSTIC MANUAL

81-699-94005 1993-1995 3.0L MMC ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION (SFI)
DIAGNOSTIC MANUAL $11.00

81-699-94017 1993-1995 DRIVER & PASSENGER AIR BAG (CCD
COMMUNICATIONS) DIAGNOSTIC MANUAL $7.00

Offhand, I don't see any manual referring to wheel bearings, do you?
I don't think it would be in the tranmission manual?
Nor would it be in the body manual or fuel injection manual.

Usually the main shop manual has the wheel bearings.
And the manual does list the entire procedure for rear wheel bearings.
The only thing I can think of is Chysler assumed no one would keep a
van so long that the bearings would go bad?

In the past, you have given me some good advice. But, here, it's
pushing it to suggest that it's okay for Chrysler to leave out of the
shop manual what to do with bad front wheel bearings. It's a mistake,
nothing more, nothing less. But a bad mistake. I bought the manual for
details like this. For the same amount of money, I could have purchased
Alldata for a year, which does list what to do with the front wheel
bearings.

It's not a biggie. I'm just a little disappointed. It's kind of funny.

 

Here's what I do when the front wheel bearings go bad on a Dodge
minivan. I go to the self serve junkyard that we talked about in
another thread and buy an entire hub assembly for $19. I install it and
take the old one back and get a dollar for it. (I think it's a state
law that says they have to give core charges for everything.) The whole
operation takes two hours, and that includes the time at the junkyard.

If it goes bad, I'll just do it over because it's so easy. However, I
have never had one from the junkyard go bad, after doing this on three
different vans over the past 8 years.

 

It's pretty easy to take off an existing minivan in the junkyard? No
special tools needed? I have only one self-serve junkyard near me. It's
hilly and sometimes quite muddy so I'm asking. Did not know it was that
easy to get to the assembly. I read, had to jack up the vehicle,
disconnect tie rod end, separate ball joint from stud from knuckle...
so no special tools needed or did you mean just pick up an existing
one? It'd be nice to save a lot of money like this. And the core for
$1, that's interesting if so in my state, Pennsylvania.

 

I did take a stroll. They had the wrong parts listed, all regular parts
for bearings from AC Delco that are the normal, serviceable kind.
You're right. Did not know so many things available, like bearing
spacers. I telephoned, 800-ROCKAUTO, and it was $90 with shipping for
the right sealed part, right on the money. Thanks.

 

You're right. Did not know so many things available, like bearing

I made an error; it's 866-762-5288 866-ROCKAUTO. Even open on Saturday
and very polite and helpful and knowledgeable. That's a treat. The
fellow answering the phone knew it was a sealed bearing.

 

Uh, getting the wheel out is the rub, if you follow my drift.

But thanks for the tip about NAPA having handy machine shop services. I
forgot all about NAPA although I priced the part there. 50% more than
Rockauto.com that DS suggested. That's such a big difference I thought
Chinese vs. American? But Rockauto said their 50% less part was made by
BCA National, the main bearing company in the states.

It helps to have a few instructions so nothing gets broken or damaged,
standard stuff. The manual neglected this. An oversight on the
editorial staff.

A repair needs to be effected so the semantics is not what is important
here. Even non-serviceable items are "serviced," that is, they are
repaired or replaced. In electronics, where I have some saavy, I rarely
find an electronics device than I cannot repair, even if it plainly
states that no serviceable parts inside. Not really so unless it's been
"potted" and encased in a brick of plastic - and even then... just need
some patience and a dental pick.

Such fustigations or so it feels like.

 

hey max
got a new tool today a robinair recycler for r12 but i'm going to covert it
to 134 all i have to do is change the oil seperator and filter and flush out
old oil and add new pag oil 50 bucs can't go wrong

 

I don't know if core charges are a universal thing now. I think they
have to do it by law in Missouri. Even if you buy an electrical relay
you get 25 cents back for the old one!

To get the hub assembly off a Voyager or Caravan you'll need a big
socket set, pliers for the steering rod cotter pin, a hammer and a tie
rod fork. This is a fork with a wedge shape. You undo the nut holding
the ball joint at the bottom of the hub and pull the bolt out. On the
steering arm, you just undo the nut on the bottom (or is it the
top....) Then you stick the end of the fork into each joint and hammer
it in so it separates the joint. You'll need to support the vehicle off
the ground to do this, because it's done after the wheel is off.

Here's some important info you'll want to know. Before you start, with
your van on the ground, loosen the nut that holds the drive shaft into
the hub. If you try this with the wheel in the air, it will just spin
unless you get King Kong to push the brake pedal for you. Then lift the
vehicle and remove the tire and undo the joints. Now you will find that
it is very hard to push the lower A-arm down from the ball joint. My
solution to this problem is to remove the sway bar bushings on both ends
and rotate the sway bar down out of the way. The suspension A-arm
becomes very easy to move after this. Take off the brake assembly by
removing the two big-headed bolts that hold the whole thing on, and you
won't have to disassemble the brakes. Tuck the brakes out of the way.
Find the four bolts that hold the hub assembly on, as well as the two
big ones that hold the top to the strut. When you take the hub off, be
sure not to pull the drive shaft out of the transmission, or you'll end
up with transmission fluid on the ground. When you put the replacement
on, just slide it over the end of the drive shaft, and make sure that
the ball joint stem is in the right position to accept the keeper bolt.

Some more important info that deserves careful consideration: By
removing and replacing the two big bolts that hold the hub assembly to
the strut, you are altering the camber of the wheel. If you want to
eyeball it and try to get it right, that's your business. I've done
that myself after changing struts when I was short of cash, and I got it
close enough that my tires wore perfectly. But if you want to get it
exactly right, take your van in for an alignment after you are sure that
you have completed your hub replacement to your satisfaction. It's
usually around 50 bucks, but it beats buying new tires next month.

 

One other thing, when I say "replace the entire hub assembly" I mean go
to the junkyard and get the thing that has a ball joint stem on the
bottom, a steering arm in the back, and it attaches to the strut on the
top. You can get just the hub and leave most of that other stuff off,
but reaking it down any more than this is just adding unnecessary
complication.

 

Thanks for the excellent explanations, very helpful.

 

I'm surprised at that - I had the impression that the AllData stuff was
right from the FSM - it might have less info. than the FSM, but never
more. Apparently I was wrong.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')