No traffic on the Crossfire?

Yeah it's hard to tell a "review" from an "opinion" a lot of times. You
could easily describe the plastic dash bits in my friend's Mini Cooper S
as cheap and plasticy, but they do their job and I kinda LIKE the style
-- so your mileage may vary (I'll just have to see it in person, from
the inside this time. )

I'm still intrigued enough to go check one out some day, but I like to
know what others think. A friend before complained that almost every car
he ever had was uncomfortable. He was fat and 6'4", so go figure. Of
course my Miata is uncomfortable ya dumbass, now get the hell out.

FPtM

 

well i was here for Crossfire opinions, but now I HAVE TO ASK what teh
deal is. (I have 4 friends with 1999+ VWs (all Golf/Passats, no Jettas
or bugs strangely -- all 4 are perfect, minus the one Golf (TDI) that
recently got hit by a red light runner).

 

Hmmm - Is your middle name "Pie" or "the"?

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

Well I bought a VW in the 80's. By the time I drove it home several
of the lamps in the interior light package had vibrated out of their
cheap fixtures. 3 days later the windshield developed a stress crack
and the the dealer was unable to get a windshield in after serveral
tries. Called the factory and was told it was a common problem and
they would get on it next week. When I didn't hear from the guy I
called back Wednesday and was told he was on vacation all week.

 

Reviews ARE SUPPOSED to be opinions. The idea is that the people
doing the reviewing try to be unbiased, but nobody that is an honest
reviewer will say that they aren't speaking an opinion. Usually the best
reviewers use sentences like "I felt that the dash was cheap and plasticy"
instead of "the dash is cheap and plasticy" when they are writing an opinion
sentence, and will leave out the "I" when writing a factual sentence such
as "the two tire options are a XXX or a YYY"

The problem is that too many reviewers out there get penis envy, in that
they start thinking that they could build a better car than the automakers,
that is when their writing goes to the shitter. They forget that if they
really
were better car designers, that they would be working as car designers
making the big bucks, instead of writing about it in a crummy office
somewhere.

Ted

 

Reviews ARE SUPPOSED to be opinions. The idea is that the people
doing the reviewing try to be unbiased, but nobody that is an honest
reviewer will say that they aren't speaking an opinion. Usually the best
reviewers use sentences like "I felt that the dash was cheap and plasticy"
instead of "the dash is cheap and plasticy" when they are writing an opinion
sentence, and will leave out the "I" when writing a factual sentence such
as "the two tire options are a XXX or a YYY"[/QUOTE]

well true. But I think I can make a differentiation orŠ why bother. One
could argue that a review is a professional's THOROUGH opinion, though,
which is how I think of it.


Review example:
Of the five sedans tested, the Bumpmobile 2000 was the least comfortable
on the road, with the Crapfastic Deluxe not faring much better.

Opinion:
Man... that car's seats are shit.



-FPtM

 

So basically two decades ago you had a bad experience.

FPtM

 

According to Consumer Reports, VW repair record has not improved
during the last 2 decades making my experience relevant to my decision
not to buy another one of their products.

 

Dori Schmetterling wrote:

Jumping in here after being out-of-town for a while and catching up on
some reading...

What I'm about to post might very well have been said already, but my
2 cents:

The Crossdresser (aka the Marlin) is being attacked because it most
probably is DC's lame attempt to create a replacement for the 300-C
concept of 2000. Notice how much the front of the Crossdresser looks
like the 300-C concept?

I wonder if it's because it was conceived by FOREIGNERS

Tell you what. I won't complain about Daimler's German designers if
they let north-american's design the Chrysler cars (and use what-ever
parts *THEY* want) - ok?

The Cross-dresser is a dud because of it's seating and because it's
under powered.

 

Shit, sure DC now has that German influence, but this post above sure
sounds like the Nazi to me. Build that wall a little higher, just make
sure to wall just yourself in and not the rest of us who just want a car.

A lot of people hate the styling of the Crossfire and that's fine, but
aside from the original Viper, I haven't seen anything GOOD LOOKING from
Chrysler in, hmm, how long? Probably before I was born, so there's not
much styling-wise that's being "lost."

....and most things you touch every single day were designed by these
rancid "foreigners" you hate and if that's such a bad thing, you'd
better turn off that computer, get down the shotgun, uncomb your hair
and close the door on the shack.

Here, here's a free calendar. Notice the year starts with a 2 now.

 

Why?

For most people, I suggest, all that matters is that the designers design
cars that people will want. If they don't, people will go elsewhere.

If DC has made a mistake with the Crossfire, then it's a mistake that will
show up in the sales figures.

To my simple mind it's all very simple.

If you mosey on over to the BMW site you will see a lot of moaning and
groaning about the design of the new 5-series (lots of it from American
contributors). Is that 'German' designers? No, it's Chris Bangle, an
Englishman, I believe. If he has made a mistake, you will see it in the
sales figures. Germany, USA and UK are the key markets for that brand. Do
the opinions expressed in newsgroups (BMW, this one) reflect the buying
population at large? Time will tell.
Again, very simple to my simple mind.

As needs to be pointed out repeatedly, it's only a ruddy car.

DAS
--
---
NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
---

........................

........................

 

Apparently Chris Bangle is American-born. Based on the petition "Stop Chris
Bangle", there is a vocal group of BMW fans who feel he has "ruined" the
marque. It's just another example of not being able to please everyone.
According to reports, the sales figures have climbed.

 

Rumor still has a 300C convertible coming. The Crossfire is not its
replacement. Think of it as more a replacement for the Maserati TC, or even
the Prowler.

Chrysler's design staff is still mostly Americans.

Who's going to pay for those "any parts they want"? Chrysler is losing $2
billion a year.

A 2-seater is intended to seat only 2 people. And the power is comparable to
Mercedes SLK, or Toyota's MR2, or Audi's TT, to name 3 other 2 seaters.

 

....which will also be put down as being underpowered by several in this NG.

The basic issue is that for many contributors to this and other newsgroups
is that if a car doesn't get to 60 mph in under 5 s it's 'underpowered'.

This is another example of the distance of the real world from the minds of
these contributors... They just want to win the traffic lights grand prix.

Maybe I have been used to really underpowered cars but now I have a car with
a 3.2 l engine (the same 218 hp one that powers/ed the SLK and is in the
Crossfire) in a car that weighs more than the SLK and I get to way beyond
the speed limit in next to no time, have lots of accelerator pedal travel
left at 120 mph (it's frightening) and can overtake at 50 mph very quickly,
i.e. the all-important acceleration 50 - 70 mph, is more than adequate.

Last year I rented an Audi TT 1.8-litre turbo. For various reasons it's not
a car I'd like to buy, but performance isn't one of them.

However, I do believe that quite a lot 'ordinary' drivers read these NGs,
thankfully. I recalla thread in the BMW group where somebody wrote in to
say how well and fast he was able to overtake on a snow-covered road in his
wonderful 5-series. The response was an avalanche of criticism about his
irresponsible driving. The 'poor' chap sent in several posts defneding
himself and saying that he had meant to emphasize the safety of his car etc.


DAS

 

Yea, sure. They'll bring back that concept (frame, chasis, et all)
just to make one car model.

My we think we're clever don't we?

I've read reviews that say the seating is uncomfortable or not exactly
ergonomic. Something to do with an interior frame member placed
directly behind the seat.

I thought I had read previously that it weighed significantly more
than 3000 lbs. I see now that it weighs in at between 3060 and 3090
lbs. Combined with it's rated 215 hp, that puts it at 14.3 lbs per
hp.

http://www.megaboost.co.uk/mr2/frames/techinfopage.htm
Toyota MR2 (MKIII / MR-S / Spyder / ZZ30)
Weight = 1015 kg (2233 lbs)
HP = 138
Weight / hp = 16 (ug!)

MR2 and variants are go-carts.

http://www.car-forums.com/car_specs/Audi_TT_2003.html
Audi TT is a 2-door, 4-passenger car.
Weight = 3274 lbs
hp = 225
weight / hp = 14.55

Seems the TT, being heavier and having a rear seat, is not directly
comparable to the Crossfire. I would think the TT's weight and small
turbo-charged engine would make it sluggish off the line.


http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/mer...n.dealerpricing.leftsidenav..8.Mercedes-Benz*

SLK weight: 3120 lbs
HP: 215
weight/hp = 14.5

Since the Crossfire is mostly a re-badged SLK it's not surprising
these specs are similar.

Conclusion:
Toyota MR2 is a go-cart with a poor weight/hp ratio.
Audi TT is either a light 4-seater or a heavy 2-seater with a typical
weight/hp ratio.
SLK is, under the sheetmetal, a Crossfire, with the same (or slightly
worse) weight/hp ratio.

300M weight/hp ratio is 14.3
Nissan Altima (3246/245) = 13.2 (hmmm)

Sorry. If they're gonna put big fat 19" wheels on the crossfire then
they should have given it a better weight/hp ratio than most 4-door,
4-passenger sedans. 14.5 lbs per hp is pedestrian these days. Why
didn't they put the 3.5L under the hood? Or would that have been too
"Chrysler" for them?

 

The 2wd TT has 180 hp. According to kbb, it weighs 2921 lb, for a ratio of
16.22 lb/hp.

If you think the TT has a real rear seat, try sitting in it. It's as much a
2-seater as the Crossfire.

And the Crossfire is comparable to, or better than them, its competition.

I wasn't aware these were 2-seaters competing against the Crossfire.

Doesn't fit. Besides, they'd have to ship it to Europe for installation. And
you might note, a Mercedes E320, with the 3.2 sohc V6, 221 hp, is faster to 60
than a 300M with its 250 hp. The Mercedes is heavier too. Lb/hp doesn't tell
the whole story.

A Porsche Boxster has 225 hp. Does that make it not a performance car?
Performance doesn't just mean 0-60. I know those educated to the 60s muscle
cars still think so, but there's a lot more to performance.

 

Then you're ignoring the obvious. The Pacifica is domestic. The
Crossfire is not. Black. White. Day. Night. Assembled in North America.
Assembled in Germany. Powered by a Chrysler-designed drivetrain. Powered
by a Mercedes-designed drivetrain.

Simple.

If that doesn't matter to you, then say so. I respect that. But
pretending that the distinction doesn't even exist is just laughable.

 

Dori Schmetterling wrote:

Bangle is from Ohio. And I LIKE his 7-series. But then I'm not an
old-time BMW fan, either

 

I also like the new 7 series. Too bad it's so damn expensive.

C

 

It shouldn't matter. Companies produce vehicles where it makes the most
business sense, not where it will soothe the most labor egos. Do you
base the purchase of sneakers or your toaster or your <whatever> on
where it's produced or do you buy what style you like in the price range
that you want? Why should a car be any different?

It's a global economy and it's not going away.

Cheers,

C