My letters to and from Chrysler about the AC blower.

As some may know, I have had a problem with the front AC blower on my '96
T&C. The dealer said the dash had to be removed to fix the problem--at a
cost of about $900. I both called and wrote Chrysler Customer Service and
asked the question, "Is it necessary to remove the dash to fix the
problem?" The Shop Manual DOES NOTI spoke with Jennifer at Customer
Service. She looked in the OWNER'S MANUAL for the answer but couldn't
find it. (What a shock!) She was nice but business-like. I then wrote a
letter to Chrysler asking the same question.

Their response:

Dear John:

Thank you for your recent email to DaimlerChrysler Motors.

(sic) the technical information you seek is not available to all the
agents,
the not (sic) technical staff agents and the contracted agents can not
assist
or obtain an answer for distribution to the public. Our STAR operation
provides assist to the dealer net work only.

Thank you again for your email.

I promptly responded: It is a simple question. Can NO ONE answer it?

Their response today--and the final series of letters, I hope:

"Thank you for your recent email to DaimlerChrysler Motors.

"Thank you for your recent email expressing interest in DaimlerChrysler
Motors Corporation.
(I swear, they said it twice!)

I AM NOT INTERESTED IN DAIMLER CHRYSLER. I'm interested in the ANSWER to
a "yes" or "no" question. And I'm not interested in getting FORM LETTERS
in response.

"We are proud of our accomplishments and the excitement our products are
generating. We are successful because we concentrate our resources in
areas of new product development, engineering and safety."

But obviously NOT on customer service or information. And the only
excitement I have received is from NOT getting the answer to a simple
question. I have ALL the shop manuals for this van. According to the
manual, the blower relay is BEHIND the junction block. In the section
concerning removing the Junction Block, Page 8E-28, it does NOT say it is
necessary to remove the dash to remove the junction block. So I am
mystified as to WHY the dealer said it was necessary.

"The information you are seeking is either unavailable from
DaimlerChrysler Motors Corporation or considered proprietary."

Sorry, Charlie IT IS AVAILABLE. It's in the SHOP MANUAL! And as for
being proprietary, if that is the case, why is it available in the shop
manual? Is the shop manual right or wrong? Is the dealer right or wrong?


"General information on the subject matter may be available through your
local library."

Sure, my local librarian will answer the question. That is the biggest
case of "pass the buck" I have heard in a long time.

"We simply do not have access to this (sic)nformation, service tech line
does but they are dealer only people and we do not access them for service
information."

So what you are saying is that there is NO way you can TALK to a "service
tech"? Does the term "caa-caa" have any relevance in your vocabulary?
I'm sure that by now you know that I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER CHRYSLER
PRODUCT and I will tell EVERYONE who COMTEMPLATES buying one about the
"run-around" I got, trying to get an answer to a simple question. So your
NON-response to my question may eventually cost your company THOUSANDS of
dollars! Of course, I'm only one person but I will also post this on the
Chrysler NewGroup online, so many MORE peoople will know of the
STONWALLING and STUPIDITY involved in this situation.

"We appreciate your interest."

More "caa-caa" If you APPRECIATED my interest, You'd FIND a way to ANSWER
THE QUESTION.

I have a plaque on my desk. It says, "Let's find a few reasons why it CAN
be done." It's obvious to ME that NO ONE IN YOUR ORGANIZATION HAS ONE OF
THESE!!

THEY NEED THEM!!!

By the way, don't waste YOUR time or MY time answering this letter. I
already HAVE the answer.
====================
And that's the way it is!

John

 

<snip the completely predictable result of asking technical questions of
any company's PR department>

It seems you failed to consider the possibility that "We'll have to remove
the dash, and it'll cost you about $900" is dealer-speak for "If you
really want us to mess with this decade-old vehicle, we'll do it, but
you'll pay for the privilege."

Rather than chasing (and biting) your tail playing hide-and-go-seek with
Chrysler's PR team, why not do something proactive about getting the
answer to your question? Something like getting second and third opinions
and quotes on the work, from a non-dealer tech?

Grand, but are you sure your problem is with the blower *relay*? You said
it's a "problem with the blower". Are you just guessing?

DS

 

That's not a question that can be answered by the phone number you called.
If your blower motor has to be replaced, NO, the assembly does not have to
be removed, If they are telling you the assembly needs to be removed there
must be something more to this estimate that you are not informing this
group.
Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

 

Grand, but are you sure your problem is with the >blower *relay*? You
said

Nope. The dealer's Shop Foreman told me it was the relay and I believe
him this time.

The last time I had a heater problem they ALSO told me it needed the dash
removed but Maxpower suggested the HVAC might be the problem and I fixed
it with one from ebay for $25. That was why I was leary of paying them to
remove the dash THIS time.

But what REALLY got my goat was the STONEWALLING from Chrysler. It was a
simple question requiring a simple answer. I can follow the instructions
in the manual and if I HAD TO DO IT, I could have removed the dash. The
point to my calling and writing them was, since the manual gives
instructions for removing the junction block (and according to the Shop
Foreman, the problem was BEHIND the junction block) without removing the
dash why did the guy tell me they had to R&R the dash?

I have since fixed the problem by running a 12 ga. switched wire to the
blue wire on the fan motor, putting a 40a. fuse in the line and everyting
works. I didn't use a relay but I did solve the problem WITHOUT removing
the dash. Will it stay fixed? Dunno but at least it works now and when I
have TIME, I'll do it right.

John

 

That's not a question that can be answered by >the phone number you
called.

Obviously not, but why couldn't they GIVE me a # I COULD call to get the
answer OR give me the # for the DISTRICT mgr so we could talk? They
REFUSED to do either. The only thing I was told at that # was that I
could take my car to a different dealer if I was not satisfied with the
1st one. Or ask the dealer for the # for the District mgr. And in the
e-mails, No answer to the question. And I thot it was a pretty simple
question. Frankly, if I had been the one that received the e-mail from a
customer, I would have tried to find out the answer, if I didn't already
know it. Or at least give a place to find it. But to tell me to to go to
the LIBRARY???? WHAT A FARCE!

to be removed,

I knew that the blower motor was not the problem because I had removed the
glove box and made it run by running a wire from the big fuse box by the
battery. And the 40a. fuse was OK. I then was mystified as to why it did
not run AND/or where the relay was, so I could replace it myself. I thot
it might be the resistor so I took it out but it had continuity on all
blades. That left only the relay or some open in the wiring. Since it
had run when I turned it off but did not run when I turned it back on, the
possibility of an open in the wiring seemed remote. That left the relay.
Where the heck was it? I changed around as many relays as I could find,
in the vain hope that one would be the right one. It obviously wasn't, so
when I FINALLY really read the manual THOROUGHLY, I found that it was
behind the junction block. This was AFTER the dealer told me the DASH had
to be removed to get to the relay. As I said in another part of this
thread, I finally just ran a switched wire to the motor, it works and I
will fix the relay when I have the time or the inclination. I know it is
NOT the correct solution but it saved me $900 today.

something more to this >estimate that you are not informing this

I think I've answered that question. I REALLY thank your for your honesty
and interest. But why couldn't someone at Chrysler have done the same?

John

 

You need to take that up with the service manager...But what Im saying is
maybe there is a wiring problem behind the unit that has to be repaired,
maybe that is why the assembly has to come out.
Thats what I mean by something more to this then someone is telling us.
And you still have that other option to take it to another dealer/shop!!

 

I doubt that such a phone number exists for ANY automaker. It would be
great if automakers did have technical assistance lines, but they don't.
Their business model says that kind of information is a dealer function,
and that's the way its always been.

 

If a surgeon tells you that you need your appendix removed do you go
home and call his receptionist and ask if the surgeon's opinion is
correct? That is effectively what you did with D-C...

Call another surgeon, don't call a receptionist.


Matt

 

The new car dealers make money selling cars. It is only normal that the
factory want them to actually do some things in return for that money.
Such as answering questions from vehicle owners.

Ted

 

So you want Chrysler technical service to drop everything and help out every
single person who wants a technical question on the car. If so, Maybe DC can
charge double the price of the car to ensure they have 50,000 technical
service engineers just to answer phones from the public.

Guess what the car business is set up on distribution. IE) DC has a
franchise network to distribute there vehicles. Therefore the franchisees
whom distribute these vehicles get the exclusive rights to technical
service. The franchisee is forced to purchase special service tools to do
service work on those vehicles also.

If you want the answer to how to R&R for your problem. BUY THE FACTORY
MANUAL

 

That would be because, you would have every tom, dick, and Harry calling
technical assistance. DC give the exclusive right for technical service to
the dealer network, to protect there Franchise network.

 

And you also have the liability issue. If they tell you to remove the
dash and you damage yourself or the dash guess who is getting sued.
Their advice was appropriate in my opinion.

Steve B.

 

OK OK. First, let me thank ALL the people who have attempted to help me in
this situation, even the flamers, because at least they were INTERESTED in
the problem, which is more than I can say for the people at Chrysler.

Let me sum up this situation in as few words as possible. I put this
problem on the NG because, frankly, I wanted some FREE info. However,
lacking that, I took it to the dealer. The Shop Foreman told me that the
problem was the blower relay, which was behind the Junction Box, which
required the R&R of the dash—a $900 charge.

I was reticent to have this done because previously I had a different
problem with the AC, the same dealer told me I had to remove the dash to
fix THAT problem too. Fortunately, a Chrysler Tech on the NG (who shall
remain nameless for security reasons) suggested that I have the HVAC
checked. I went ahead and got one on Ebay, the Tech helped me program it
and it FIXED the problem WITHOUT the dash removal. So I think you might
understand my reticence to have the dash removed THIS time—and of course,
there was the $900.

So when I called Chrysler Customer Service, asking the question, “Does the
dash require removal to R&R the blower relay?” you can imagine my surprise
when they not only would not (or could not) give the answer, they would
not give me the # of someone who KNEW the answer NOR the # for the
District Mgr. who might know someone who MIGHT know the answer. I guess I
thot customer service meant SERVICE TO THE CUSTOMER. SILLY ME! I was a
‘CUSTOMER’ who had a ‘SERVICE’ question. Obviously, Chrysler’s definition
and mine are NOT the same.

But I had 6 big lovely Chrysler FACTORY purple and gold shop manuals (plus
a green Haynes, which didn’t help at all in this situation) and in the BIG
GREASY one, were pix and description of how to remove the junction box and
they did NOT include R&R the dash. So I WROTE Chrysler an e-mail asking
the same (to me) simple question. I have already included them so I won’t
go thru THAT again.

I agree with those of you who say that Chrysler Dealers should make money,
both from sales AND service. BUT….where is it written that the PARENT
company should NOT give the answers to (what to me are) simple questions
about their product TO A CUSTOMER? Microsoft does, Yahoo does, I even got
answers from Studebaker and Fiat. AND Pontiac on the Fiero. And they
don’t even MAKE them any more.

So I hope EVERYONE can understand that if a company does NOT give service,
THEY DON’T GET MY MONEY NEXT TIME. And I’ll tell everyone who MIGHT want
to give them money, the story of my experience. Wouldn’t you?

John

 

I thot I DIDN'T call a receptionist. At least that was NOT my intention.
I thot I was gonna get the info from the horse's mouth. If a # says
Chrysler Customer Service, I EXPECT service. I was a CUSTOMER. If I
reached the receptionist why didn't SHE give me the # for another doctor
who COULD answer the question?

Frankly, Matt, I think that if YOU had been in this situation, after
having paid $40 (plus $5.60 hazardous material fee!) and getting what
MIGHT be incorrect info (based on the previous diagnosis), you might be
reluctant to pay it again for what might be ANOTHER incorrect diagnosis.


And to my way of thinking, Chrysler SHOULD have HAD the answer SOMEWHERE
in the organization without having to pay another $46!

Frankly, the Chrysler shop manual told me what I wanted to know but, I
have found, sometimes even the SHOP manual is wrong, so I was really only
confirming what I THOT I already knew--which was that the Shop Foreman was
wrong again.

John

 

If you want the answer to how to R&R for your problem. BUY THE FACTORY
MANUAL.

I thot I made it plain in the 1st part of the thread that I have the
factory manuals--in fact I have SIX of them. Frankly, I was trying to
CONFIRM what the factory manual told me--that the dash DID NOT NEED TO BE
R&R.

John

 

That's not a question that can be answered by the phone number you called.
If your blower motor has to be replaced, NO, the assembly does not have to
be removed, If they are telling you the assembly needs to be removed there
must be something more to this estimate that you are not informing this
group.

=====================

Sorry, I thot I had made it plain in one of the other threads that the
dealer's Shop Foreman told me that the blower relay was the problem and
that the dash had to come out because of it. I apologize for leaving out
that part.

John

 

Fortunately, a Chrysler Tech on the NG (who shall

Does not compute... "HVAC" simply means "heating, ventilation, and
air-conditioning." Its the whole system, not a specific part so it sure
wouldn't be "on Ebay."

Do you mean a specific part? HVAC fan relay? HVAC compressor relay?
expansion valve? etc?

 

Sheesh... since when does an intelligent person expect TECHNICAL
information from "customer service." Do you go to the "customer service"
desk at a stereo store to ask what the frequency response of a pair of
speakers you bought there is, or to ask the value of a capacitor in the
crossover network? Do you go to "customer service" at Sears to get the
specs on a Craftsman battery charger?

NO! "Customer service" is for complaints about they buying PROCESS
(financing, warranty claims, etc.) not about PRODUCT! Don't be
deliberately stupid.

 

That would be because, you would have every tom, dick, and Harry calling
technical assistance. DC give the exclusive right for technical service
to
the dealer network, to protect there Franchise network.

================
In other words, they would be calling customer assistance wanting
assistance because they were CUSTOMERS? WHAT A REVOLUTIONARY IDEA! Boy,
THAT would be terrible. It might catch on and soon EVERYONE would be
GETTING SERVICE just because they were CUSTOMERS. And they'd be HAPPY
customers. And they'd buy the PRODUCT again. Wow, could the economy
stand THAT MUCH STIUMULATION?

John

 

And you also have the liability issue. If they tell you to remove the
dash and you damage yourself or the dash guess who is getting sued.
Their advice was appropriate in my opinion.

==================

Do you mean their LACK of advise? Steve, I didn't ask them if I COULD
remove the dash, I asked if it was NECESSARY to remove it to solve the
problem. Based on my previous experience with this dealer, I had a
question that they refused to answer.

John