Modern Tires Ruin the Roads

Yep, the freeze/thaw is the big killer, but salt isn't great for
concrete either.

Matt

 

Hello, Coasty!
You wrote on Sat, 26 Nov 2005 05:20:52 -0500:

C> May be they should start building roads out of recycled rubber from
C> tires, then the roads could throw the stones back in retaliation.

C> --
C> Coasty
C> Remove The SPOOGE To Reply
C> ??>> Pebbles catch in the fine sipes of modern tires and are carried in the
??>> tread. As the tire rolls, they abrade the roadways.
??>>
??>> Earlier tire designs use coarse zig-zag treads that cannot pick up
??>> small rocks. Car manufacturers should specify tire tread designs that
??>> do no degrade the roads. Only rubber compound should contact the
??>> roadways.
I seem to recall a project in Ontario a few years ago where some
experimental sections of road were laid with mixtures of asphalt with
granulated tires and/or sulphur. I guess it was not successful because I
have not heard any more about it.

Cheers

Indrek Aavisto.

 

Please don't feed the trolls.
Notice that the "non specific person" has not participated in these lengthy
posts other than to kick them off.

There are 3650 posts this month from NN this month alone.

A proper observation:
"I believe that our recent experience with "Nomen Nescio" was an attempt to
waste our time with unreasonably argumentative rants that started ..."

 

The Freeze / Thaw issue is only so when water penetrates the surface.
Salt is only an issue where it facilitates the melting of snow into
openings in the surface. Smooth, thick concrete will easily last
20+ years.

 

I don't wonder, I know it becomes particulate matter we all get to
breath, free of charge. Excepting of course the rubber that is
"burnt" into the streets in front of schools.

 

Oh yeah? You calling me a liar?

"In my area there was a 750 foot portion of concrete built to interstate
standards that lay dormant for 25 years... blocked off, it had no
vehicular traffic, and negligible salt on it.
It only had rain and freeze/thaw.


By the time the roadway got extended, it was a broken up mess.. they had
to tear it all up and lay new concrete."

 

<<<<

 

It is water under the concrete that causes the biggest problem when it
freezes. If the subgrade preparation and drainage isn't good, the
entire slab will heave causing cracks over time.

Surface damage can and does occur from the very small shrinkage cracks
that exist in virtually all concrete and these are susceptible to salt
and water damage over time. Yes, good concrete will last 20 years, but
I've seen concrete that didn't last 10. And even 20 years is pretty
expensive now that concrete costs several million dollars per mile of
four-lane highway.


Matt

 

Perhaps it was due to tire resistance, but I doubt it. IMHO it was due to
the poor road constuction back then. Modern roads are much more heavily
built than they were in the bias ply days, at least where I live. Nowadays
cities near here gut the old road and lay in much more base rock and asphalt
than they took out. Compaction and testing methods have also greatly
improved, as have materials. So, if you want to take the opinion of a
person who deals with road reconstruction on a peripheral basis, the tires
may not have had much to do with it. More important than the tires is the
amount of traffic, and how heavy the vehicles are, when it comes to roadway
wear.

WW (almost a geezer, depending on what the definition of THAT is!)

 

I'm completely mystified. How obvious a troll does dear Nomen has to
post before people will get the message and NOT RESPOND?

 

--
Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605
Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002
New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer
skype: jjpfeifferjr

Joe, Nomen is clearly a troll, but we also must question whether you are
an imposter. Surely someone with a Ph.D. in any discipline would be able
to post two sentences without a grammatical error. Were you really
someone with a Ph.D., I know that you would have said, "How obvious a
troll does dear Nomen have (not "has") to post before people will get
the message and NOT RESPOND?"

Sign Me

Just Checking

 

The secret is SMOOTH. As in WAY too smooth to provide adequate
traction for safe highway driving. A textured concrete surface WILL
deteriorate from freeze-thaw, and WILL end up with salt embeded in the
concrete. Up here in the "great white north" the vast majority of
highway surfaces are asphalt of one type or other. VERY little exposed
concrete.
The salt used on the roads has severely damaged MANY re-enforced
concrete structures- like bridges bu corroding the encapsulated
re-bar, and splitting the concrete.

 

I wouldn't say it wasn't successful - the testing continues. A few
more years will start to tell the tale.

 

No, the geezer is correct in his tire resistance theory. But it has nothing
to do with bias ply vs. radial ply. A vehicle moving in a straight line
wants to continue in a straight line, even while turning. Thankfully, there
is usually enough tire resistance to overcome this tendency. The curves in a
gravel road take extra load because of it.

More important than the tires is the

Absolutely.

Dave

 

The surface of concrete is absorbant, if you have oil drips on the surface
of the smoothest concrete they will stain. The places that the oil goes is
where the water goes, and freeze thaw will soon etch and destroy the smooth
surface.

Ted

 

Not sure if I'm supposed to be upset and start a flame war. Too tired
though.

I was tending to think of concrete sidewalks that are stamped 1940
with no cracks...

But then again they aren't built to interstate standards. They're
built better

 

Your sig line explains it all.

you can't understand b/c it's rooted in human nature.

Post secondary education is about knowing more and more about less and
less.

PS this isn't a flame, just an observation

 

I don't think his PhD is in English or Eng. Lit.

I work in a machinery field infested with engineering types and I can tell
you that knowledge of grammar and spelling is abysmal on both sides of the
Atlantic.

Similar applies to scientists, many educated to degree or postgraduate
level. It is kwite apawling.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

 

What I found surprising to learn just a few years ago was how little
international exchange there was on the question of road surfacing
materials. You'd think that companies would take the best practice and
experience on a global basis and apply that. But they don't or, at least,
didn't. Everybody was ploughing his own little furrow, so to speak.

I happened to sit next to someone on an airport shuttle bus who was on the
way to (one of?) the first international conferences in this field. And it
was being held in Iceland (hohoho!) to be on 'neutral' territory...

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

 

Sidewalks tend to get a lot less salt that roads. And sidewalks tend to
have fairly small blocks that can heave with the ground and not break.
Most interstates concrete sections are at least 20' square and most are
even larger. It is hard to heave such a large piece evenly enough to
avoid large stresses in the concrete. Then you drive heavy trucks
across them while they are heaved and bad things happen.

Probably!


Matt