Its 2004, How about 21st Century Engineering in your car line?

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Nomen Nescio, Feb 16, 2004.

  1. Nomen Nescio

    Nomen Nescio Guest

    Today I am going to address suspension systems.

    In the beginning there was the solid axle. Still used on some big rig
    trucks. Very durable but rough riding.

    Knee action independent suspension came along, popularized after WWII. A
    refined version can be seen in the '82 Mercedes Benz. Upper and lower
    control arms in sort of a parallelogram geometry. Spring acts on lower
    control arm. There is a robust steering knuckle and spindle for the wheel
    mount. Very effective for its day. A knee action suspension can
    frequently hold its alignment for the life of the car. You will note the
    M.B. uses very refined forged arms instead of the usual pressed steel found
    on the American cars.

    McPherson struts came next, with huge savings to the manufacturers not
    passed along to the consumers. Its an all-in-one assembly of spring and
    damper and sort of resembles the struts used on aircraft, from which I
    assume the design was adapted for cars. Since this design is predominately
    in use today, I will delve into its serious deficiencies:

    1. It will not hold alignment. Mere friction is used at the two lower
    bolts, one an adjusting cam and the other a clamp bolt to hold the camber
    adjustment fixed. A good bump or light curb hit can and will move the
    camber angle, requiring a new alignment job. In contrast, the knee action
    used a micrometer screw or shims to affect adjustment, both very robust.
    Also, in the knee action system, caster could be adjusted; caster is fixed
    in McPherson suspensions.

    2. As the wheel undulates over bumps, the McPherson strut will alternately
    compress and extend and as it does so, the camber of the wheel is in
    constant change from its nominal zero degrees from vertical. This produces
    a constant scrubbing action on the tire. You can demonstate this by simply
    jouncing up and down on the front end or even better, jacking up and then
    lowering your front end. Observe the wheel take on a pronounced positive
    camber as your jack up and then as you apply extra weight (simulating
    rebound), it will assume a pronounced negative camber. With camber in a
    constant state of flux from neutral (where it should stay), to positive to
    negative, the tires wear out about double the rate they would if a constant
    zero camber could be maintained. Knee action is guilty of the same fault.
    Only a true aircraft strut maintains a zero in all spring deflections or
    compressions. Such a strut requires a scissors link and is more complex,
    of course, but the extra expense is indicated in $30,000 cars, if not in
    $8000 cars.

    You will note that year-to-year model changes no longer involve complete
    body style changes as in the 50's. Even in those days, the running gear
    remained largely unchanged, at least in principle; it was style that
    changed significantly from year-to-year. Even today, with the style
    changes taking several years, the running gear is carried over as long as
    the factory can possibly can get away with. Suspension systems are at
    least 50 years out of date. Now you know why radial tires should provide
    at least 100,000 miles of service but don't. Now you know why your wheels
    are always out of alignment. Its the McPherson strut.
     
    Nomen Nescio, Feb 16, 2004
    #1
  2. Nomen Nescio

    RPhillips47 Guest

    Why???
     
    RPhillips47, Feb 17, 2004
    #2
  3. Give it up, he's high on Cheetos,

    Ted
     
    Ted Mittelstaedt, Feb 17, 2004
    #3
  4. The cars I've had over the last 15 years have held alignment much MUCH better
    (and longer) than anything I owned in the 60's and 70's. I don't know what
    you're talking about.
     
    James C. Reeves, Feb 18, 2004
    #4
  5. Don't feel bad, he doesn't know what he's talking about either. At least
    you have the ability to see it. Sadly , he doesn't.


    Tom Heintz "Mopar Maniac"
     
    Tom & Debbie Heintz, Feb 18, 2004
    #5
  6. Nomen Nescio

    Mike Behnke Guest

    Funny. Just had alignment checked on my '00 Intrepid and caster IS
    adjustable from 2 to 4 degrees positive, with ideal at 3. Requires
    replacement of the original strut clevis to knuckle attachment bolts
    with undersized bolts.
     
    Mike Behnke, Feb 18, 2004
    #6
  7. Nomen Nescio

    Neil Nelson Guest

    The undersized bolts are to allow camber adjustment.

    There is no published procedure on a 2000 Intrepid for caster
    adjustment. There is a specified range as cited above.
     
    Neil Nelson, Feb 18, 2004
    #7
  8. Nomen Nescio

    Mike Behnke Guest

    Will double check with shop. They said it's possible.
     
    Mike Behnke, Feb 18, 2004
    #8
  9. Nomen Nescio

    Steve Guest

    I've never had anything hold alignment BETTER than a torsion-bar
    Chrysler from the 60s/70s (NOT the F/M/J transverse T-bar setup, but the
    A/B/C/E/R body longitudinal setup). But my '93 has held alignment AS
    WELL as the old cars.

    However, if you read some of the trade magazines there are quite a few
    modern cars that are problem children when it comes to alignments.
    Limited range of camber adjustment, NO provision for camber adjustment,
    etc. etc. Moog and other companies are making good money on 'problem
    solver' kits that have offset cam bolts that allow you to add adjustment
    capability to these cars.
     
    Steve, Feb 18, 2004
    #9
  10. Nomen Nescio

    Neil Nelson Guest

    No doubt that it's possible by shifting the sub-frame forward or
    back, but caster is not going to change by replacing with the
    previously mentioned strut to knuckle bolts.
     
    Neil Nelson, Feb 18, 2004
    #10
  11. Nomen Nescio

    Bill Putney Guest

    Actually, the car comes from the factory with one eccentric bolt and one
    non-eccentric bolt holding the knuckle to the strut, and they replace
    the non-eccentric bolt with an eccentric bolt to double the range of
    adjustment of the camber.

    As you point out in your next post, there is some adjustment of caster
    on the LH vehicles by shifting the engine cradle as allowed by the 4
    bolt to hole clearances (but shops don't know about this, or don't admit
    to knowing). This fix is in fact documented in TSB #02-16-99 and a
    repair procedure referenced in that TSB.

    Bill Putney
    (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with "x")
     
    Bill Putney, Feb 18, 2004
    #11
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