In-the-tank fuel pumps cause death and destruction

A Google search found two serious fires, happening on the same day, one
fire causing death and the other perhaps a million dollars damage as a
result of servicing in-the-tank fuel pumps. Had these fuel pumps been
placed externally, as the usual and proven practice for more than 70 years,
these accidents would have been prevented. Legislation is badly needed to
address this serious design deficiency as professional mechanics as well as
amateurs are exposed to deadly danger by a totally unnecessary fuel system
configuration. In the meantime, lawyers should file a class action as all
manufacturers are currently using dangerous in-tank pumps and millions of
cars are affected. This suit is worth billions and billions. At the very
least, all cars should be retrofitted with new tanks and external pumps by
mechanics wearing fire suits and guarded by fire crews. The changeover
will save hundreds of lives and much damages while costing much deserved
hundreds of millions of dollars of expense to the responsible capitalist
titans, all of whom are totally devoid of industrial ethics.

News Story One:

Thursday, October 28, 2004 · Last updated 4:11 a.m. PT

Inhalation of toxins blamed for Des Moines fire death

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

DES MOINES, Wash. -- A man who died in a garage fire after gasoline spilled
out of a truck that was being repaired died partly from inhaling toxic
fumes, investigators said.

David E. Russ, 61, identified Wednesday as the dead man, also had burns on
more than 90 percent of his body, investigators in the King County medical
examiner's office said.

Russ and two other men was trying to replace the fuel pump on a pickup
truck Monday when the leaking fuel caught fire as the trio tried to push
the truck out of a detached garage.

All three ran outside, but Russ went back in and was trapped when the roof
collapsed, Fire Battalion Chief Victor Pennington said.

News Story Two:

Local auto dealership heavily damaged in fire
By Virgil Cochran
Lamar Daily News


Thursday, October 28, 2004 -


Tri-County Ford on Highway 50-287 north of Lamar was severely damaged by a
midmorning fire yesterday, but the manager Jeff Travis said the business
will be up and running again in just a few days.

Travis and Prowers County Rural Fire Chief Marvin Rosencrans said the fire
began when mechanics were attempting to drain a fuel tank on a vehicle in
the mechanic shop to replace a fuel pump. A fuel transfer pump developed an
electrical short, which triggered the blaze.

It rapidly engulfed the shop area of the building, but everyone managed to
get out safely, Travis said.

Tri-County will have temporary office trailers set up on the lot by next
week, Travis said, and will be open for sales of new and used vehicles. In
the meantime, all automobiles for sale will remain on the lot, and
customers are welcome to drop by and shop, and even negotiate deals. But
the business won't be able to finalize deals until the temporary offices
are set up and computer equipment is up and running again next week.

Travis said Tri-County is also negotiating for temporary headquarters for
its mechanic shops, but it may be a few more days before the shop functions
of the business are up and running.

Eight cars in the service area were destroyed and the service garage itself
was heavily damaged if not totally destroyed, but Rosencrans said damage to
the office and parts storage area was limited to mostly smoke and water
damage.

Local firefighters were called to the scene about 10:40 a.m. yesterday, and
the Prowers Rural Fire Department was assisted by the Lamar, Wiley, and
Holly Fire Departments.

As for the existing building, Travis said the business was well insured and
that he would meet with insurance adjusters sometime today.

 

Maybe I'm dense or something, but how can the in-tank fuel pump be blamed
for these two incidents?

A Google search found two serious fires, happening on the same day, one
fire causing death and the other perhaps a million dollars damage as a
result of servicing in-the-tank fuel pumps. Had these fuel pumps been
placed externally, as the usual and proven practice for more than 70 years,
these accidents would have been prevented. Legislation is badly needed to
address this serious design deficiency as professional mechanics as well as
amateurs are exposed to deadly danger by a totally unnecessary fuel system
configuration. In the meantime, lawyers should file a class action as all
manufacturers are currently using dangerous in-tank pumps and millions of
cars are affected. This suit is worth billions and billions. At the very
least, all cars should be retrofitted with new tanks and external pumps by
mechanics wearing fire suits and guarded by fire crews. The changeover
will save hundreds of lives and much damages while costing much deserved
hundreds of millions of dollars of expense to the responsible capitalist
titans, all of whom are totally devoid of industrial ethics.

News Story One:

Thursday, October 28, 2004 · Last updated 4:11 a.m. PT

Inhalation of toxins blamed for Des Moines fire death

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

DES MOINES, Wash. -- A man who died in a garage fire after gasoline spilled
out of a truck that was being repaired died partly from inhaling toxic
fumes, investigators said.

David E. Russ, 61, identified Wednesday as the dead man, also had burns on
more than 90 percent of his body, investigators in the King County medical
examiner's office said.

Russ and two other men was trying to replace the fuel pump on a pickup
truck Monday when the leaking fuel caught fire as the trio tried to push
the truck out of a detached garage.

All three ran outside, but Russ went back in and was trapped when the roof
collapsed, Fire Battalion Chief Victor Pennington said.

News Story Two:

Local auto dealership heavily damaged in fire
By Virgil Cochran
Lamar Daily News


Thursday, October 28, 2004 -


Tri-County Ford on Highway 50-287 north of Lamar was severely damaged by a
midmorning fire yesterday, but the manager Jeff Travis said the business
will be up and running again in just a few days.

Travis and Prowers County Rural Fire Chief Marvin Rosencrans said the fire
began when mechanics were attempting to drain a fuel tank on a vehicle in
the mechanic shop to replace a fuel pump. A fuel transfer pump developed an
electrical short, which triggered the blaze.

It rapidly engulfed the shop area of the building, but everyone managed to
get out safely, Travis said.

Tri-County will have temporary office trailers set up on the lot by next
week, Travis said, and will be open for sales of new and used vehicles. In
the meantime, all automobiles for sale will remain on the lot, and
customers are welcome to drop by and shop, and even negotiate deals. But
the business won't be able to finalize deals until the temporary offices
are set up and computer equipment is up and running again next week.

Travis said Tri-County is also negotiating for temporary headquarters for
its mechanic shops, but it may be a few more days before the shop functions
of the business are up and running.

Eight cars in the service area were destroyed and the service garage itself
was heavily damaged if not totally destroyed, but Rosencrans said damage to
the office and parts storage area was limited to mostly smoke and water
damage.

Local firefighters were called to the scene about 10:40 a.m. yesterday, and
the Prowers Rural Fire Department was assisted by the Lamar, Wiley, and
Holly Fire Departments.

As for the existing building, Travis said the business was well insured and
that he would meet with insurance adjusters sometime today.

 

Fishing troll.
A Google search found two serious fires, happening on the same day, one
fire causing death and the other perhaps a million dollars damage as a
result of servicing in-the-tank fuel pumps. Had these fuel pumps been
placed externally, as the usual and proven practice for more than 70 years,
these accidents would have been prevented. Legislation is badly needed to
address this serious design deficiency as professional mechanics as well as
amateurs are exposed to deadly danger by a totally unnecessary fuel system
configuration. In the meantime, lawyers should file a class action as all
manufacturers are currently using dangerous in-tank pumps and millions of
cars are affected. This suit is worth billions and billions. At the very
least, all cars should be retrofitted with new tanks and external pumps by
mechanics wearing fire suits and guarded by fire crews. The changeover
will save hundreds of lives and much damages while costing much deserved
hundreds of millions of dollars of expense to the responsible capitalist
titans, all of whom are totally devoid of industrial ethics.

News Story One:

Thursday, October 28, 2004 · Last updated 4:11 a.m. PT

Inhalation of toxins blamed for Des Moines fire death

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

DES MOINES, Wash. -- A man who died in a garage fire after gasoline spilled
out of a truck that was being repaired died partly from inhaling toxic
fumes, investigators said.

David E. Russ, 61, identified Wednesday as the dead man, also had burns on
more than 90 percent of his body, investigators in the King County medical
examiner's office said.

Russ and two other men was trying to replace the fuel pump on a pickup
truck Monday when the leaking fuel caught fire as the trio tried to push
the truck out of a detached garage.

All three ran outside, but Russ went back in and was trapped when the roof
collapsed, Fire Battalion Chief Victor Pennington said.

News Story Two:

Local auto dealership heavily damaged in fire
By Virgil Cochran
Lamar Daily News


Thursday, October 28, 2004 -


Tri-County Ford on Highway 50-287 north of Lamar was severely damaged by a
midmorning fire yesterday, but the manager Jeff Travis said the business
will be up and running again in just a few days.

Travis and Prowers County Rural Fire Chief Marvin Rosencrans said the fire
began when mechanics were attempting to drain a fuel tank on a vehicle in
the mechanic shop to replace a fuel pump. A fuel transfer pump developed an
electrical short, which triggered the blaze.

It rapidly engulfed the shop area of the building, but everyone managed to
get out safely, Travis said.

Tri-County will have temporary office trailers set up on the lot by next
week, Travis said, and will be open for sales of new and used vehicles. In
the meantime, all automobiles for sale will remain on the lot, and
customers are welcome to drop by and shop, and even negotiate deals. But
the business won't be able to finalize deals until the temporary offices
are set up and computer equipment is up and running again next week.

Travis said Tri-County is also negotiating for temporary headquarters for
its mechanic shops, but it may be a few more days before the shop functions
of the business are up and running.

Eight cars in the service area were destroyed and the service garage itself
was heavily damaged if not totally destroyed, but Rosencrans said damage to
the office and parts storage area was limited to mostly smoke and water
damage.

Local firefighters were called to the scene about 10:40 a.m. yesterday, and
the Prowers Rural Fire Department was assisted by the Lamar, Wiley, and
Holly Fire Departments.

As for the existing building, Travis said the business was well insured and
that he would meet with insurance adjusters sometime today.

 

Might be.

Story 1

First the disclaimer. I could be wrong, but . . .

Every in-tank fuel pump I know of requires that the tank be
removed from the vehicle. Perhaps they tried to sleaze-repair
by not draining the tank. Or maybe they substantially drained
the tank, but not completely. If the pump were external as has
been conventional for decades, the tank wouldn't have to be
drained and removed to safely remove the fuel pump.

Story 2

"Travis and Prowers County Rural Fire Chief Marvin Rosencrans said the fire
began when mechanics were attempting to drain a fuel tank on a vehicle in
the mechanic shop to replace a fuel pump. A fuel transfer pump developed an
electrical short, which triggered the blaze."

Kind of self-explanatory, isn't it?

By the way, little-old me - a mechanical engineer - really doesn't
understand
why the pumps were stuck in the tank. I believe "Click and Clack"
aka Tom and Ray Maliozzi MIT graduates and hosts of Car Talk once,
as I recall, said they were not sure why the pumps were stuck in the
tank.

Possible reason - Increases cost of repair?

 

Its a Nomen thread, anything can and will be written, someday I wish him and
Mic Canic would get a clue

 

Al Smith wrote:

Simple: To increase integration and reduce costs. The auto mfgrs.
prefer to buy fewer total assemblies from suppliers to cut down on costs
such as separate handling, installation, shipping, purchase contracts,
parallel paper trails, tracking systems, project managers, installation
effort, etc. By putting the fuel pump with the "sending" unit, the fuel
pump and gage sender (and, in the case of the LH cars, the fuel filter)
get incorporated into one purchased "part".

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

<<Snippage>>

No shiite.

Lessee...if we all gave up cars we could save 45,000 lives a year, no wait,
we'd also have to give up transportation of medicines too...so maybe we'd
have a net savings of 22,000 lives a year...ooops, death by horse
accidents...ok, we save 11,000 lives a year...but those 11,000 starve
because there's no way to transport the food from farm to market.

Ok, let's all just commit suicide now and save everyone the bother of
living.

You play the game you take your chances...

The world was made with corners and no amount of doo-doo-gooder wishful
thinking is going to change this from a zero sum game. Carpe diem...or get
out of the way and stop trying to save me from myself.

Cripes.

Richard

 

And thus I present to him the Darwin Award.

 

Now if he was going back in "to save a dog" he'd be a typical Darwin
winner.

Just a shame that no one has invented a "fire extinguisher" yet to
deal with such a circumstance. Though I suppose working with
Gasoline, a fire is the last thing you'd suspect.

 

Yup, you are wrong.

Rob

 

Al Smith wrote:

Yup... it had little to nothing to do with the actual fuel pump - it was
faulty tools and/or techniques.

Rob

 

You obviously aren't too familiar with the blathering drivel that this jerk
posts in here too often, are you?

 

I believe this trollishly crossposted nonsense... wait for it...
was intended to IGNITE FLAMES!

OHHH... (groan)... but what's worse is that it seems to have worked.

Nomen Nescio? Scandanavian Networks?

"NN - eller Nomen Nescio - er Nordiskt Netværk for navnegenkendelse.

NN or Nomen Nescio is Scandinavian Networks by navnegenkendelse."

<http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTr...tv%E6rk+for+navnegenkendelse.&from=dan&to=eng>

Alright... I'm still working on the translation, but I think I'm close...

 

You can't legislate against stupidity. If you follow some basic safey
precautions there is very little danger. I'm not a professional mechanic
and I have changed out 3 in tank fuel pumps with no problems. This is as
stupid as the folks trying to blame Honda for fires caused by mechanics who
didn't check for the old filters gasket when doing an oil change.

 

Definitely wrong. I changed the in tank fuel pump on my 86 Dodge GLH-T
three times. All I had to do was wait for the fuel level to drop low
enough before I pulled it. I jakced up the right rear of the car and
then pulled off the wheel. Then the fuel pump/sender assembly could be
easily pulled out. Smart design.

 

An educated guess - adding to your clearly educated response - no
sarcasm, so don't get pissed...

Also, this type of integration is used secondarily, but not
insignificantly, to increase book-billed labor charges and replacement
costs on all related parts and diagnostic procedures. Under warranty,
this isn't usually a big deal, because the factory-trained techs are
specifically trained in the "is/is not" questions that arise, and how to
test for them. Off warranty, or at the local shop, properly trained
techs use this to their advantage like many other things, simply billing
"book time" that doesn't reflect reality, relying on the customer's
ignorance.

While replacing a heater core, and heater hoses while they were at it,
which I completely agreed with, a shop tried to bill me $120 in labor to
change the thermostat. I told them to put it back together, fill it,
and then expect legal trouble, or to do it as part of the job, and just
bill me for the part. Knowing I'd caught them in a lie in January,
while I was at work downtown when it was zero degrees outside, they shut
up and acquiesced, albeit begrudingly. I laughed, and asked repeatedly
why I could do something in 10 min., by itself, that would take them 1.5
hours with everything already aparts. They had no answer. I had the
facts, prices and diagrams right in front of me as well. It wasn't
worth it to them. I'm not a lawyer, I'm a businessman. It was all
about cost / benefit in this case. I never have gone back to them (a
major repair franchise, I might add).

In their defense, shops use book time out of necessity sometimes,
because of a lack of local knowledge. In their attack, shops and techs
use book time to make money on flat-rate labor. Techs and shops alike
continually look for common, high-book-time gems with which to bilk
their customers and reap profits.

Sadly, few people have time to, care to, or can, feasibly, dig into
these problems themselves, which is why this system has proven so
successful.

The saddest and most uncertain factor in these equations is the newbie
tech who just invested $50,000 in his or her education and tools to work
on new cars. Too many fail or quit, and most are underpaid for their
valuable work. Others succeed, and either become vampires themselves,
or are good enough (morally and skill-wise) to turn an honest, good
profit and NOT screw consumers with (on average) 100% markups on parts
and book-billed labor.

Ok, so many of you know all of this, and are saying "so what". I'm just
throwing this out there on my own time, having seen both sides, and I'm
just trying to share experience...

FWIW... a little homework goes a long way, if not done anywhere but from
Google and a $20 repair manual...

 

Fuel pump the cause is bullshit. More like human stupidity i would say.

 

Right ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! brother. Does not matter if the
stupidity occures in a garage or on the internet.

 

You don't think there were fuel fires when people replaced
external fuel pumps, or tank, or lines, or filters?

Ed

 

POPPY COCK!!!!! what a crock,,,ok lets put the fuel pumps outside the tank,
Where should we put the fuel Sending unit???? Ever thought maybe the person
working on the car didnt know what they were doing???? I wonder if maybe
they were using a drop lite next to the tank to see what they were doing and
maybe the pressurized fuel hit the bulb and ignited the fuel? Mcdonalds got
sued for having coffee scold someone, coffee has been hot for how many
yrs??? should me make coffee cold now

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech
A Google search found two serious fires, happening on the same day, one
fire causing death and the other perhaps a million dollars damage as a
result of servicing in-the-tank fuel pumps. Had these fuel pumps been
placed externally, as the usual and proven practice for more than 70 years,
these accidents would have been prevented. Legislation is badly needed to
address this serious design deficiency as professional mechanics as well as
amateurs are exposed to deadly danger by a totally unnecessary fuel system
configuration. In the meantime, lawyers should file a class action as all
manufacturers are currently using dangerous in-tank pumps and millions of
cars are affected. This suit is worth billions and billions. At the very
least, all cars should be retrofitted with new tanks and external pumps by
mechanics wearing fire suits and guarded by fire crews. The changeover
will save hundreds of lives and much damages while costing much deserved
hundreds of millions of dollars of expense to the responsible capitalist
titans, all of whom are totally devoid of industrial ethics.

News Story One:

Thursday, October 28, 2004 · Last updated 4:11 a.m. PT

Inhalation of toxins blamed for Des Moines fire death

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

DES MOINES, Wash. -- A man who died in a garage fire after gasoline spilled
out of a truck that was being repaired died partly from inhaling toxic
fumes, investigators said.

David E. Russ, 61, identified Wednesday as the dead man, also had burns on
more than 90 percent of his body, investigators in the King County medical
examiner's office said.

Russ and two other men was trying to replace the fuel pump on a pickup
truck Monday when the leaking fuel caught fire as the trio tried to push
the truck out of a detached garage.

All three ran outside, but Russ went back in and was trapped when the roof
collapsed, Fire Battalion Chief Victor Pennington said.

News Story Two:

Local auto dealership heavily damaged in fire
By Virgil Cochran
Lamar Daily News


Thursday, October 28, 2004 -


Tri-County Ford on Highway 50-287 north of Lamar was severely damaged by a
midmorning fire yesterday, but the manager Jeff Travis said the business
will be up and running again in just a few days.

Travis and Prowers County Rural Fire Chief Marvin Rosencrans said the fire
began when mechanics were attempting to drain a fuel tank on a vehicle in
the mechanic shop to replace a fuel pump. A fuel transfer pump developed an
electrical short, which triggered the blaze.

It rapidly engulfed the shop area of the building, but everyone managed to
get out safely, Travis said.

Tri-County will have temporary office trailers set up on the lot by next
week, Travis said, and will be open for sales of new and used vehicles. In
the meantime, all automobiles for sale will remain on the lot, and
customers are welcome to drop by and shop, and even negotiate deals. But
the business won't be able to finalize deals until the temporary offices
are set up and computer equipment is up and running again next week.

Travis said Tri-County is also negotiating for temporary headquarters for
its mechanic shops, but it may be a few more days before the shop functions
of the business are up and running.

Eight cars in the service area were destroyed and the service garage itself
was heavily damaged if not totally destroyed, but Rosencrans said damage to
the office and parts storage area was limited to mostly smoke and water
damage.

Local firefighters were called to the scene about 10:40 a.m. yesterday, and
the Prowers Rural Fire Department was assisted by the Lamar, Wiley, and
Holly Fire Departments.

As for the existing building, Travis said the business was well insured and
that he would meet with insurance adjusters sometime today.