Hyundais as Dodges?

The recent thread on the Mexican-market Dodge Ram Durango had me over to
www.dodge.com.mx . Apparently they've got a new model called the "Verna".
The Verna greets us when the page comes up...

....replete with Hyundai badge in the middle of the grill. Wonder if this
is a Mexico-only marketing arrangement, or if DC, having failed to learn
the lessons presented by years of unholy alliance with Bitsushitti, has
got in bed with Hyundai.

 

They've been in bed with Hyundai for a while. There was(is?) some car
smaller than the Neon sold in Mexico, that is really a rebadged Hyundai.

The two are also working together on future models / platforms /
powertrains.

As well even when they were providing crap, Chrysler didn't cut ties with
Mitsubishi, so I doubt they've learned anything.

 

Mits, Hyundai and DC's Chrysler Group had agreed to manufacture
engines together under the "Global Engine Alliance LLC" banner back in
Feb 2003. The US plant, located in Dundee, Michigan, was to have
started ops in 2005. Chrysler backed out in May 2004, when it announced
it was to sell it's 10.5% stake in Hyundai.

Chysler still involved with Hyundai and Mits to produce the Hyundai
"World Engine" in Japan and the US. The engines look to be all aluminum
1.8, 2.0 and 2.4L I-4's. The 2.4L is also known as the "Theta" engine,
used in the Sonata. The engine family supposedly uses a Borg-Warner
timing chain setup.

The next generation Neon (2007) is rumored to use at least one of the
family. Mits will sell a version of the Neon, with different interior
and exterior, to s. America.

 

The Atos, yes.

Oh, joy.

Looks like not.

 

....assuming Mitsubishi lasts that long.

 

DC has the distribution rights for Hyundai in Mexico. Hyundai has not been
there that long, so they do not have a national office or distribution arm
setup. Only because DC was in bed with them, that they distribute them. But
since they sold out there stake, they might not be the distributor for
hyuindai's to soon in Mexico.

 

Could be worse. Hyundai used to make poor cars (but cheap, which is what
kept them in business) but lately their quality seems to be improving
considerably. The Excel, for example, is a better car than the Neon by
almost every measure. Hyundai is a huge and very formidable company - they
dominate the large ship construction industry for example.

"Getting into bed" is not only fashionable, it's absolutely necessary to
survive in today's market. It's the only way to finance the R&D, and this
will become more important in the future with new types of fuels,
drivetrains etc.

Besides, it's hardly new. For example, the CVT transmission that Ford is
introducing in the 500 and Freestyle goes all the way back to the Dutch DAF
car in the 1950s, and has been developed in cooperation with Volvo and other
companies since then.

 

Are you sure you mean the Excel? If you mean the Elantra or something MAYBE.

1994 Excel:
81HP engine
0-60 12 seconds
28/36MPG with a manual shift
Everything breaks at a moment's notice


1998 Neon
132HP engine
0-60 9.1 seconds
29/41MPG with manual shift.
Not the best, but not absolutly horrid for maintanence

 

Sorry, Elantra.

 

Well, "better" what? Refinement, power, economy, fit 'n' finish, etc? OK,
good, I wouldn't have too much trouble with that. But durability and
long-term dependability and serviceability are three big unknowns with
these "better" Korean cars. So far, Korean cars get old and unworth fixing
(or impossible to fix) in a big hurry. Will the more recent models be
significantly better in this regard? Maybe, maybe not. We don't know yet,
and won't for a number of years.

Not that a Neon is the sine qua non of vehicular durability, but servicing
remains *possible and affordable* in the long term.

DS

 

Agreed - but you will have to admit the Elantra is much farther ahead
of the excel than the excel was ahead of the Pony.And the excel was a
quantum leap above the Pony.
Parts availability and pricing will be, to a large extent, what
determines how repairable todays Korean cars will be 5 or more years
down the line.

Fit and finsh, engineering, and design of Hyundai, Kia, DaeWoo(GM) et
al are at LEAST on a par with Mitsubishi, Suzuki and many european
cars - very competetive with the Mazdas and Nissans of the world, and
breathing heavily down the necks of Honda and Toyota.

Where does that put them in relation to Ford, Chrysler, and GM?
GM, for one, is banking heavily on its DaeWoo designed engines (and
cars).

And the Korean vehicles are significantly less costly to purchace than
the Japanese "equivalents"

 

I thought DC now had a large interest in Hyundai, and I remember
reading some years ago that the next Neon would be on a Hyundai
platform.

 

Ah, I hadn't seen that -- glad to hear it!

So... the next Neon won't be a Hyundai after all? That would be
*excellent* news.

 

Not true. At least, not true on the money part. All the automakers have
the
money to finance their own R&D. In fact, GM developed the EV1 entirely
by themselves, without partnering, see:

http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/adv_tech/300_hybrids/hyb_ev1.html

And what they got out of it is a patent portfolio that will probably pay
back
every penny they invested in the program.

The problem is one of patents, and key researchers. In todays specialized
market you can count the chemists that are specialists in passenger car
hydrogen fuels on the fingers of one hand. And I don't mean just ordinary
types I mean the gurus that write the scientific articles that get
published.
The same goes for any other itty bitty tiny extremely specialized facet of
automotive manufacturing. These people all command top dollar and they
only work for one company at a time. If your GM and you need a problem
solved that is extremely specialized, and the few guys in the world that can
do it aren't working for you, you have no choice but to partner. And of
course the patents also come into vicious play. It's a lot cheaper to
partner
with some other company who has the patents in their portfolio that you
want,
and exchange licensing with them, than to go it alone and try licensing
their
crown jewels from them.

Ted

 

I heard it was going to be based on a Mitsu. Might end up with a Mitsu with
a Hyundai engine.

 

Why? Not like Mitsu is any better.

 

Wouldn't be the first time. (Mitsubishi Precis = rebadged Hyundai Excel)

 

Was a time when Hyundai cars were basically built under licence from
Mitsu. The pony and excel engines and transmissions were exact copies
of Mitsu Colt and Galant engines.
They soon had enough of that crap and got their engine designs
elsewhere. Can't remember where the second generation engines came
from, but it was a european company. Currrently Hyundai/Kia are
designing their own engines, as is Daewoo (now GM owned).

 

"I was jumping to conclusions, and one of them jumped back" as Al
Stewart once wrote. The one I was jumping to was that this meant the
next Neon would be a real live American car. You're right, it's much
more likely to be a Mitsu.

 

I'd really like for it to be American. If it isn't, I won't be buying it,
and will look at Ford or GM.