How recalls really should be done

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by George Orwell, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. Just do it like the Government does it with aircraft. Something
    called airworthiness directives (ADs). Call it roadworthiness
    directives (RDs). The advantage is we are not dependent on
    Toyota's largesse to do what is right.
    George Orwell, Feb 12, 2010
  2. George Orwell

    hls Guest

    It isnt just Toyota who would be affected by this...therefore it might
    be a good thing
    hls, Feb 12, 2010
  3. George Orwell

    Canuck57 Guest

    1/2 the Government Motors vehicles would come off the road for bad
    manifolds. Hard sell for a debt ladden mongral like Obama.
    Canuck57, Feb 13, 2010
  4. George Orwell

    Jim Warman Guest

    Ah, yes... mandatory roadworthiness certificates.... It would certainly help
    out with rush hour traffic... That would take a lot of cream puffs off the

    Be carefull what you wish for... you just might get it (along with a public
    transit pass).
    Jim Warman, Feb 13, 2010
  5. George Orwell

    dr_jeff Guest

    In PA, the state with the weird liquor laws, it is called state inspection.

    dr_jeff, Feb 13, 2010
  6. George Orwell

    Rob Guest

    about as exciting as your insurance company billing you by the mile
    Rob, Feb 13, 2010
  7. George Orwell

    Ed Pawlowski Guest

    I don't miss that. There was more fraud and rip offs with state inspection
    than you'd ever imagine. Shops that tried to sell you things you don't need
    like ball joints or brake jobs, shops that took your money and put the
    sticker on but never inspected anything but the lights. Only reason they
    checked them is because it was visible in case the state was checking up on

    As a teenager, I took my shoddy cars to a shop owned by an old guy that
    could not take a tire off any more. He never raised it on a lift. we'd BS
    for 20 minutes (the time an inspection should take) and he'd put the sticker
    on and take my $6.

    Here is CT we have no inspection are cars are no better or worse than they
    were in PA
    Ed Pawlowski, Feb 13, 2010
  8. George Orwell

    clare Guest

    You want it done like the FAA?????
    You are sure about that?????
    That's right - you Americans don't like health care either.

    When an aircraft is subject to an AD it is the OWNER'S responsibility
    to get it fixed. At HIS expense. Using CERTIFIED parts only. By a
    specialized shop who is authorized by the manufacturer to do the
    Many AD's require "grounding" the vehicle - immediately. Means your
    car would be sitting in the driveway untill you could get an
    appointment at the DEALER to get it fixed, where you would pay
    exhorbitant prices for certified, traceable replacement components to
    be installed.
    Also, you would not be allowed to do ANY repairs on your vehicle - and
    ONLY original, traceable, certified parts could be installed. NO
    modifications would be allowed without expensive paperwork. The are
    called STCs.
    You would also be required to maintain a detailed log book - and if
    the vehicle was used for ANY commercial use there would be a mandatory
    teardown for inspection every X number of hours of operation -
    regardless of miles or condition.

    With the very low number of planes in the air, the waits are not
    terribly long - but with the millions of cars on the road it could be
    a major inconvenience waiting with a dissabled vehicle in your

    Be a GOOD American, and keep the Government OUT of your life as much
    as possible.

    If you are a Canadian, just rememberhow long you sometimes need to
    wait for theat "free" healthcare - and remember, you do not have a
    choice. Do you want your car's "health" to be treated the same, but at
    your expense????(American health system)
    clare, Feb 13, 2010
  9. George Orwell

    clare Guest

    The state inspection is NOTHING compared to FAA regulations - and only
    covers the "gross" stuff.
    Can you imagine having to replace the main bearings on your engine -
    and every (chevy V6) engine on the road in North America because they
    (the goverment agency responsible) determined there were a few that
    MIGHT possibly fail in the next 2 years - and you had to replace them
    clare, Feb 13, 2010
  10. George Orwell

    clare Guest

    Here in Ontario safety inspections are on transfer only. Emission
    tests on transfer or every 2 years. Both are invitations to be ripped
    off if you don't know where to find an honest mechanic.
    clare, Feb 13, 2010
  11. George Orwell

    Jim Warman Guest

    Some advice may be in order...

    I am licenced to perform many mandated inspections.... by either government
    or other accreditte regulatory bodies... Any of these could audit me in a
    heartbeat if there was a complaint. An audit could, depending on the
    infraction, mean that I would be banned from performing these inspections.
    Bear in mind I care more about my integrity than some others...

    These inspections were never designed to be a licence to print money....
    They were designed to promote vehicle roadworthiness. If you have a concern
    with a shop, report them to the regulatory body... If you have a concern
    with a shop, have them show you how your vehicle contrevenes the regulation.

    If they wont or can't.... there is a problem.... but you wont report them
    because they do other stuff cheap.... cheaper than I will. But that
    encompasses a whole range of other considerations...

    Many people visit me because every one else has had a "crack" at the
    repair... and failed.... All of those techs have "checked everything" -
    including your bank balance. Back when you first noticed the concern, I was
    "too expensive" and now, here you are.... I'm still "too expensive" except
    now all the cheap guys have your money.... all of your money.... and that
    makes me a bad man... especially when I find that your cheap guy missed
    something simple about $3000 ago....

    Auto repair is a two edged sword....

    50 percent of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class.....
    most people will visit the cheap doctor up until they need the expensive
    guy - unfortunately, by then it may be a bit late...
    Jim Warman, Feb 13, 2010
  12. George Orwell

    Ed Pawlowski Guest

    While your answer is correct, it is not practical or what people want. At
    the time I live in PA, the inspection was done twice a year. It is now only
    once but you need emissions testing. If you did not have the proper
    sticker, you got a ticket. Drivers don't want tickets.

    So, you go to the inspection station. All you want it to pay your $6, get a
    sticker and be on your way. I found a couple of shops that did just that
    for me. I knew what was or was not needed, I took care of that myself.
    Quick and simple, I was happy. There was also a black market for stickers.
    You gave some sinister character your registration and $10 and the next day
    he gave you a sticker. That was a convenience for people that had serious
    problems with their car and knew it may cost $200 or more to repair it.

    Other shops looked at inspection as work generation. Yes ma'am, you need
    brakes. It is not safe to drive home. So the lady pays for brakes and does
    not know she is getting ripped so she cannot report the slime ball.

    Another scenario is the marginal car. Yes, maybe the idler arm is a little
    worn or the drag link bushings are loose. It is a judgment call. So the
    guy says you need a wiper blade or suggests you buy a $2 bottle of some
    additive, you buy it and he thinks those joints will last a bit longer.
    With no set guideline, who determines if the shop was right or wrong if you
    report him? (they did come up with a gauge for ball joints though) Fact is,
    you got your sticker and you don't care.

    New Jersey had state inspectors that had no monetary interest in the
    outcome. A friend that lived there took his truck and it failed every time.
    He sent his wife back with it wearing a low cut blouse and it passed every
    Ed Pawlowski, Feb 13, 2010
  13. George Orwell

    sctvguy1 Guest

    Ed Pawlowski wrote:

    Here in FL, inspections were done away with, they were only checking
    emissions anyway, and with all the new cars, it was a ripoff: $20.
    sctvguy1, Feb 13, 2010
  14. George Orwell

    sctvguy1 Guest

    Are antique cars exempt from inspection?
    sctvguy1, Feb 13, 2010
  15. George Orwell

    PeterD Guest

    Why is it that people don't understand that recalls are for safety
    defects not product quality? I don't think we see many manifolds
    causing accidents!
    PeterD, Feb 13, 2010
  16. George Orwell

    Clive Guest

    Here in the UK every car has to undergo a test yearly that includes all
    safety related issues, rust and emissions which get tighter every so
    many years. Without the certificate (called MOT) you're not allowed to
    road tax your car and cannot keep it on a road. Further, you have to
    declare to the authorities that you car has been properly removed from
    the road and will not be used, called SORN (statuary off road
    notification) if you don't you get fined for not doing so. It's not
    easy to get around as most police cars carry automatic registration
    recognition equipment which is continually linked to the central
    registration computer in Swansea and if you car doesn't come up as being
    MOT'd and Insured you'll get pulled over for your documents. Failure
    to come up with these can see you in court with a hefty fine, points on
    your licence (12 is an automatic ban) and a likely chance that you
    vehicle will be crushed.
    Clive, Feb 13, 2010
  17. George Orwell

    dr_jeff Guest

    While recalls are for safety defects, the automakers also have TSBs for
    other things. The TSBs often let the owner get the problems fixed for free.

    dr_jeff, Feb 13, 2010
  18. George Orwell

    Clive Guest

    A defective manifold could well be leaking poisonous fumes into your car
    that you can't smell, but will send you to sleep and into a tree to kill
    you if everyone else is lucky, or you just might smash into an oncoming
    vehicle killing both you and them, is that fair?
    Clive, Feb 13, 2010
  19. George Orwell

    Bill Putney Guest

    Some years ago (I'm guessing 12 or 13) I left my car at a local shop for
    a state inspection (VA) while I went to work with instructions to call
    if they found any discrepancies (I am a DIY'er, and I know the condition
    of my cars when I take them in for inspection).

    Mid day, I got a call saying that they needed to replace the rear brake
    pads. Of course they expected me to give them the go ahead with
    whatever POS pads they had in stock or picked up at the local parts
    store. I told them I would be there in 5 minutes. I borrowed a
    co-worker's vehicle and asked to see the pads. I am an engineer with
    calibrated eyeballs - I looked all around the pads, and they were
    clearly nowhere near the low limit. The guy said "I'm going to fail
    them anyway". I asked if they had any calipers. They didn't, but the
    guy grabbed a tire tread depth gage. They were way above the limit, so
    I said, so now we're OK, right? "I'm still going to fail them."

    I went to the counter and asked for them to get the state police on the
    line. Turns out that the trooper who handled inspection issues in the
    area was not available that afternoon. So I had them go ahead and
    reject it, and because life is too short, I got new pads that evening
    and put them on, but I saved the old pads and left a message for the
    trooper to call me.

    He called and arranged to come by my workplace the next day and I
    brought the old pads in. The fact that I had replaced them myself
    prevented any official action (the shop could claim that they weren't
    the same pads). Fair enough. But the trooper told me that he would
    make note of my complaint, and that they could send a plant car into the
    shop to see if they could catch them pulling a similar thing. All I
    know is that about 2 weeks later, the shop's state inspection sign
    disappeared from their building for a few weeks. I like to think I had
    something to do with that.
    Bill Putney, Feb 13, 2010
  20. George Orwell

    hls Guest

    It is called the same in Texas, but is essentially worthless.
    hls, Feb 13, 2010
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