Expensive Air job (not fixed) still

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Denise Malas, May 31, 2006.

  1. Denise Malas

    Denise Malas Guest

    Hi people, I just wanted to share my expensive air conditioning job I paid
    for and had done at a (Five Star) Chrysler Dealership. This started in June
    2003, I had no air working in my 1994 Plymouth Voyager, this van looks like
    brand new inside and out with just 48,000 miles on it, it's my baby. Well I
    thought the mechanics fixed it, I paid over $1,300.00 for the parts and labor.
    When I went to pick my van up I almost dropped dead when I looked at the
    inside and outside of my vechicle, there was grease all over the seats and
    carpet and on the head liner too. The exterior of it had chips nicked out,
    and black over spray was all over the passanger side of the van. I complained
    and the manager had me leave it over night so they could clean it up. There
    was more said and done but it would take way to long to tell all of it so
    I'll tell ya what happened next. In 2004 I turned on the air and guess what?
    no air again. This time I took it to another dealer to have it looked at and
    fixed without paying. It was still under warranty TG. I get a call from the
    other deal and they tell me we can't fix your van because it has a
    aftermarket part on it from this first dealer I took it to and I'd have to
    take it back there. Oh man! So I took it back again and the owner denied it
    was an aftermarket part (of course) that didn't surprise me. So I left it and
    when it was fixed I went to pick it up and guess what? While me and the owner
    had the hood up and it was running with the air on I heard a loud hissing
    sound and the refrigerant was leaking out right there in front of us. So now
    I had to leave it once again. And mind you, the owner has never once offered
    me a loaner car knowing I had a ways to drive back and forth to take my van
    there. So it gets pretty annoying now, I picked it up and the air worked fine
    until June 2005. I took it in last year again and had to pay 69.95 to have it
    looked at and on the next day the dealer called me and stated what was wrong
    with it and the cost ($900.00) for the same parts I paid in 2003 to be
    replaced. When I got to the dealer I took the estimate right inside to the
    owner, sat down in his office with him and was in tears at this point, he
    refunded my $69.95 and said he would find a way to write-off the costs to fix
    my van so I left it there again. Now you won't believe it I have NO air again
    in 2006. I called Chrysler Corporate Headquarters and complained and I was
    told to take it back to this same dealer and they would have STAR Techs get
    involved to resolve this matter now. Does anyone know what STAR is and who do
    they work for? Are they a mediation group or what? I feel I should be paid
    now for 4 years of hell I've been put through with this dealship. And I
    forgot to mention that the people who work there are not very compationate
    and are very rude to women. If you have any tips to pass on please do so?
    Denise Malas, May 31, 2006
  2. Denise Malas

    maxpower Guest

    You have a vehicle that is 12 years old. Are all your problems related to
    leaks???? If the system has deteriorate and you replace one part, the next
    part that is weakest may leak especially when ambient temperatures go up.
    You have not mentioned anywhere in this post what was done except the one
    time you heard a hissing noise.
    If it is due to leaks a dye test would have shown the leaks, was that ever
    STAR is more or less an input for data that builds up over time, they are
    suppose to be actual technicians with a little mechanical ability to assist
    with problems.Basically if they cant give you an answer they refer you to a
    problem that may have been fixed similar to the one you are having.

    Glenn Beasley
    Chrysler Tech
    maxpower, May 31, 2006
  3. Everything was replaced on the air cond. system except for the hoses. Yes I
    had more than one dye test performed that's how the techs knew what was wrong
    and fixed it, but like I stated it didn't last for long, this is an every
    year occurance and has become a nuisance. It should have been fixed properly
    the first time.
    Denise Halass, May 31, 2006
  4. This sounds pretty bad. You might want to look up mechanics that treat
    women politely. www.Cartalk.com has some. There may be others. Rudeness
    is usually sign of incompetent and/or dishonest workers, be it
    mechanics or anyone else.

    Leaving your van a mess is a sure sign that the repairs were too
    complicated for them to do properly. They just may be a bit stupid. It
    happens. One dealership in Newport, Rhode Island I would call close to
    certifiable morons. A rich place with very angry, very incompetent
    mechanics. But they did not care since there were many millionaires
    around there who could care less about repairs that were pennies to
    old van. Why? First it's going to be a big problem with vans where many
    things can go wrong after 12 years. Also, their mechanics may not be up
    to speed on vans from 1994. I definitely sense this from the dealers
    near me. They are good but they really don't want to mess with my 1994
    van. In fact, they refused to do some repairs because things will go
    wrong and they are afraid to be liable. So I look into independent
    mechanics or even private mechanics who work out of their own places. I
    ask around.

    About your problems, I don't know where you live but you need to look
    up the statute of limitations. Where I live, it's only two years
    although that starts counting from when the problems began, which could
    be two years ago. Sometimes you can take them to small claims court.
    You'll need to do a little research and get at least one independent
    mechanic to certify that they caused so much in repairs for

    If they mess up again, you might want to do what one fellow did near
    me. He picketed the place. Even got an article in the local newspaper.
    I can see it now. Chrysler is discriminating against women. Chrysler is
    cruel to women. Chrysler does not depend on its products and stand
    behind them. Chrysler is rude, crude, and dirty. Chrysler is the
    anti-Christ. Daim Chrysler! Be creative :) Or cry some more. It worked
    the first time and it's certainly not confrontational as my

    My air-conditioning just went south yesterday in my 1994 Voyager. I
    guess I won't be asking my favorite Five Star Dealer to fix it after
    reading your post. It's a bummer. I don't have power windows so roll
    up, roll down, roll up, roll down...

    I gather you did not need a shot of freon? Are you sure that they did
    not cheat you in this regard? I realize there are seals but the first
    course of action is a shot of refrigerant, is it not? Something may be
    really wrong here. You need to check for outright fraud, then
    incompetence, and finally, bad luck, but a dirty van is a very bad sign
    that these are dirty people.
    treeline12345, May 31, 2006
  5. Denise Malas

    NewMan Guest

    I have never had a lot of luck with dealerships. My borther used to
    work at one that basically was ripping people off. You bring in your
    car for an oil change and they would use your car for delivery and
    pick-up runs that day, and never bother doing the oil change! And some
    of the guys driving the cars were racing with them....

    Like I said my borther USED to work there. He left in total disgust.

    I believe it is true, dealers are way more interested in selling you a
    new minivan than fixing your old one! In their eyes, that old van is
    costing them profit! HOW DARE YOU drive a 12 year old car! Cars are
    only supposed to last 5 years! Didn't you know???? If they jack you
    around enough, and blame it on your "old" van, then you are much more
    likely to buy something new or at least newer! And if they figure you
    are a woman who knows nothing about cars, then you would trust them,

    I have a 94 Grand Caravan with over 180,000 km on it. I love it. I
    gave up on the body a long time ago! It seems like every time I come
    out of a store, there are 3 or 4 more dents in it! People just don't
    give a shit about other peoples property! I was going to get the dents
    fixed, but by the time I got around to it, my van looks like a war
    zone! So, as much as it pains me, why bother? If I get it fixed, some
    asshole with a big farm truck will just park beside it and trash the
    $2000 that a decent paint job and prep will cost me.

    I did have some minor A/C problems on my van. The first year, I got it
    recharged. That lasted about a year. Then it did not work, so I
    thought "another recharge???". Well, no. Initially my shop told me
    compressor - $1200. But as they examined the system, they found the
    pressures were all "off" despite what appeared to be close to a full
    charge of refrigerant! It turned out to be a part that is in the
    system that is used to remove moisture from the system - a "dessicant"
    canister. It was completely clogged and would not allow refigerant to
    pass through it!. So... Evacuate the system. Replaced all seals and
    the dessicant canister, use the dye test to check entire system for
    leaks - all AOK. Do a full evaucation and recharge of the refrigerant!
    About $300 IIRC. That was 2 years ago, and the system is still
    working! :)))

    What this boils down to - to me at least - is a combination of fraud
    and incompetence on the part of the dealership. They could care less
    about you, and see you as a woman with a checkbook - hopefully a big
    enough checkbook to buy a new van!

    I take my van to an independant shop. I found out about them strictly
    by "word of mouth" from a woman who got treated well their. She was
    literally a Blonde with a Checkbook. And they never took her for a
    single penny. She was a single mom with bad finances, and they even
    allowed her to make payments on her repair work so she could have her
    car to get to work and look after her daughter! This shop has had MANY
    opportunities to take me for a lot of dollars, and - true to form -
    has NOT done so! They get almost all my busines! And, believe me, I
    tell ALL my friends about them. Oh yeah, locally one of the local
    papers runs a "best of..." reader poll. Readers nominate things like
    the best chinese food restaurant, the best jewelry store, the best....
    auto service shop! When I first went in I noticed this shop took the
    "Readers Choice Award" year, after year, after year! I have NEVER seen
    them advertise. The don't have to! They are ALWAYS busy. Small wonder
    why! :)))

    Let this be your last transaction with a dealer. Look around. Ask
    people. Check with the Better Business Bureau! Start hunting for a
    shop. Keep looking until you find one that you like, and then stick
    with them. IME, you will be way better off in the long run.

    Now for a few things, you usually want to consider specialty shops.
    Transmission work is one case. And A/C is another. It just so happens
    my shop as a competant A/C technician. But failing that, I have in the
    past gone to shops that specialize in A/C service and repairs. Check
    the yellow pages and the BBB. Ditch the dealer. Get a qualified shop
    to fix it once and for all, then sue the dealer in small claims for
    the cost of getting it fixed right, plus money for your pain,
    suffering, and inconvenience! And while you are at it, how about
    sueing them for the cost of a new paint job! The van was in perfect
    condition before they got their paws on it, so why should YOU suffer
    as a result of the dealers incompitance? Get the specialty shop to
    write you a report that you can use in court. Their "expert" opinion
    should be sufficient

    Good luck.
    NewMan, May 31, 2006
  6. Denise Malas

    hartless Guest

    Thats right newman! All dealers are crooks and cheats! Christ your such a
    moron. You managed to declare ALL dealers are Crooks and Cheats. And also
    screw all women around! You also stated everyone has no respect for other
    peoples property. Also astated a Farmer will beat the shit out of your van
    by parking beside. Lets face it! you drive a 13 year old van because you are
    a loser with no job, and collect welfare and probably disability pension,
    for a fraudulent injury. A typical lazy SOB that thinks he knows it all. Yet
    still stupid enought to claim a dealer can claim a write off on a vehicle he
    has to resale. NEWMAN you know nothing about the situation. The fucking
    broad can't evan replay as to what was done to the van. Claims they replaced
    everything on the A/C system! Really is that why it was less then $2,000 to
    fix! replacing everything in an A/C/ system is a hell of a lot more then

    And good story about a new car dealership using customer cars for
    deliveries. You are so full of shit it is obvious! Newman, check should be
    coming in this week, you can hit the Beer store, and LCBO and have a good
    week in your drunken stupor!
    hartless, May 31, 2006
  7. Denise Malas

    NewMan Guest

    SO who pissed on your cornflakes this morning???

    I said I have not had good luck with dealers. And, yes, where I live
    there are certain dealers that ARE crooks. Just because I had bad
    experiences with dealers does not mean everone will, nor does it make
    them ALL crooks. Please do not put words in my mouth.
    Takes one to know one.
    See above.
    That is certainly how it seems. When I look at my van, as well as
    other cars, and how people behave in parking lots, etc... I see a
    great deal of disrespect for others property. This does not mean
    everyone - just the majority of people observed first hand.
    Again, just my experience and observations. I recall a guy with a
    corvettee parking in the farthest corner of a parking lot where there
    was not a car for 300 yards. A large farm truck drove in, parked right
    beside him, and proceeded to open the door on the car - severely
    chipping the paint.

    It happens, and I saw it first hand.

    I have also seen assholes driving big 4x4s do the same thing to my van
    and other cars as well.
    Actually I am a licensed "professional" making fair coin and driving a
    12 year old van because I would rather save for a HOUSE than drive a
    new(er) car! What the hell would YOU know about it?
    A dealer CAN write down the depreciation - not the total cost of the
    car. If the car is worth $40,000 new, and depreciates by, say $10,000,
    then the dealer CAN write of at least a portion of the $10,000
    depreciateion. If they then sell the vehicle for, say $33,000, then
    they are ahead. If they sell it for LESS than $30,000, then they can
    write down the balance of the depreciation. This is how it can be done
    - at least here in Canada.
    I grant you, a complete system replacement would indeed be more than
    $2000! First thing you appear to have be right on so far.
    What the hell would YOU know of my experiences and the experiences of
    my immediate family???? I am telling you things that HAVE happened. I
    do not have time to engage in fiction.
    I have a bottle of Scotch in the cabiniet. Been there 5 years, and
    still 90% full. As a rule, I don't drink alcohol. And I absolutely
    HATE beer. The stuff looks and smells like horse urine to me, and it
    is WAY too bitter. I suppose you have aquired a taste for it though.

    I think you better cut back on that crack you been dropping. It is
    affecting your ability to think rationally.

    Advice offered here is free of charge. It is based on my personal
    experiences and comes with no guarantee of fitness for a particular
    use. Things are different from place to place. I sincerely hope others
    have had better times of it than I have. But - just in case - I hope
    that my experiences may help others.

    If you find my advice useful, then take it. If you don't, then c'est
    la vie. YMMV.
    NewMan, May 31, 2006
  8. I'm glad you mentioned that. I noticed that happening to my van too. So
    I just always park a spot or two away from the others as a rule.
    Sometimes a good distance and use that for exercise. Since giving up on
    getting the closest spot, I have not noticed any new, unexplained
    dings. When I'm around SUVs and trucks in the parking lot, I am also
    more aware that they may not take care of where they are going.
    treeline12345, Jun 1, 2006
  9. Denise Malas

    Matt Whiting Guest

    Sure, this happens, but so does this: somebody in a Vette or BMW who
    parks their car diagonally across two parking spots to try to keep
    anyone from parking beside them. I've seen this in lots that were full
    or nearly full. Gives me great pleasure to park my 12 year old Chevy
    pickup 6" from their front fender and watch them try to turn the wheels
    enough to pull out. Who knows, maybe this Vette driver pulled this
    stunt earlier and the farmer couldn't find a parking spot because the
    Vette guy was hogging two of them.

    Matt Whiting, Jun 1, 2006
  10. Denise Malas

    maxpower Guest

    maxpower, Jun 1, 2006
  11. Denise Malas

    NewMan Guest

    Actually, the vette driver I saw parked diagonally across 3 spots.
    Having said that, the parking lot was about 60% empty at the time. So
    it really made no difference in that case. But the farm truck parked
    perfectly parallel to the vette - diagonnaly across 3 parking spaces!

    I had it in with a woman at work once. We have assigned parking, and
    she parks on my left. There is no one assigned to park to my right.
    She had a bug Forerunner and kept parking too close to me. I had a
    bitch of a time trying to open my door without hitting her. So I kept
    parking a little farther away each day. But I get in first, so when I
    come out, she was parked PRECISELY the same distance away from me no
    matter how far away I parked! I even parked 3/4 into the next spot one
    day and she STILL did it. I chewed her out for it. Obviously she was
    looking at my van and NOT the parking stall lines. After I chewed her
    out, she finally smartened up and paid attention to HER STALL. I was
    so tempted just to decorate her passenger doors. But, that would make
    me no better than all the rest, and I still had to work with her.

    I guess "common courtesy" is not so common after all.
    NewMan, Jun 1, 2006
  12. Denise Malas

    Matt Whiting Guest

    That explains it then. He was simply responding to the Vette driver's
    arrogance. I'll admit I have no tolerance for folks in fancy cars who
    purposefully take up more than one space. I don't care how far away
    they park. There is no need to take more than one space. If they park
    in an empty corner and the lot never gets full, then it is highly
    unlikely that anyone will park beside them, so taking up two or three
    spaces makes no sense. And if the lot does get full, then their
    arrogance has cost someone else a place to park and they deserve a ding
    in the door.

    Matt Whiting, Jun 1, 2006
  13. Denise Malas

    NewMan Guest

    I am not convinced that most people deserve a ding in the door.
    Accidents can happen, but in general, no.

    I got a good chuckle when the farm truck parked next to the vette. I
    thought that he desrved THAT as a message. But when the farm truck
    parked SO CLOSE that he could not help but damage the other vehicle
    when it was ABSOLUTELY UNNECCESSARY - THAT pissed me off.

    In todays parking lots that make spots designed for turbo fireflys
    when most of us still drive vans, trucks, and mid-sized sedans, you
    are going to get close. And sometimes it is near impossible. This is
    unfortunate, but understandable. But when someone goes out of their
    way to do something stupid....???? <sigh>

    Show some respect people! It costs you nothing but a little
    forethought to show some respect. Doesn't sound like too much to ask
    to me - too much to expect perhaps, but not too much to ask.
    NewMan, Jun 1, 2006
  14. Denise Malas

    RM Guest

    I will key a car parked that way every damn time. If you are so worried then
    park in the back of the lot. I have keyed dozens of cars for this since it
    is so completely rude and selfish. Once again, if you dont want dings in
    your shiny new depreciation machine then park in the back.
    RM, Jun 1, 2006
  15. Denise Malas

    Matt Whiting Guest

    I'm not advocating intentionally damaging another's vehicle. However,
    anyone who intentionally parks so as to take up two or three spaces
    should have their car towed, in my opinion. And you can usually tell
    intentional from accidental as intentional is as you described earlier -
    a sports car parked in the corner of a lot at a diagonal to take up at
    least two spaces.

    Matt Whiting, Jun 1, 2006
  16. Denise Malas

    Matt Whiting Guest

    I won't intentionally damage someone else's vehicle, but I may park my
    old pickup so close that they can't get into theirs. :)

    Matt Whiting, Jun 1, 2006
  17. Denise Malas

    Joe Guest

    What for? She claims she's not paid one penny since 2003. Right?

    Anyway, the short answer is that if you're not a millinonaire, you shouldn't
    be getting repairs made at a dealer. You need to get to know some folks that
    have to live and die by word-of-mouth. There are generally honest
    independents in any town who specialize in A/C.
    Joe, Jun 2, 2006
  18. Yes. Auto A/C does not last forever. It is not uncommon for it to do this
    sort of
    thing in an older vehicle. Most people simply keep adding refrigerant, they
    buy the
    refrigerant cans from the auto parts place for about $5.

    I do my own A/C work since it is so expensive to have someone do it. And in
    my opinion you originally had a leak most likely from the compressor shaft
    They all leak after time, this is a very difficult area to seal just by
    design. What
    probably happened is they put in a reman compressor. Reman compressors do
    not last as long as the original. 3 years is about average, and really good
    may last 5 years but it's hard to find really good remans. A brand new
    only lasts about 10 years or so.

    AC hoses also cannot be expected to last more than a decade either. What
    happens is over time the rubber in the hose gets hard. Then the rubber
    at the transition from the rubber hose to the aluminum metal fitting and it
    There is nothing that can be done to stop this since it's underhood heat
    makes the rubber hose get hard.

    It would be a lot better if auto A/C systems used a sealed compressor like
    a home system or refrigerator uses. Such a sealed compressor is powered
    by electricity. But you would have to have a separate alternator on the
    engine to just make power for the compressor. So automakers instead just
    drive the compressor off of the crankshaft. As a result you cannot seal the
    compressor that well since a spinning shaft has to go into the compressor
    the outside. In a home system, only wires that don't move go from the
    to the inside of the compressor.

    There is only one way to get your system renewed to the point that it would
    last another 10 years. And that would be to replace every active part in
    the system, accumulator, compressor, etc. with brand new parts, remove and
    replace every O-ring at every joint, flush out all metal A/C lines, replace
    rubber lines And that would be cost-prohibitive. And you have no guarentee
    it would work since the metal lines in the vehicle are all 10 years old and
    any point one could crack due to metal fatigue due to age. So to really do
    it would mean replacing all metal lines and the evaporator and condensor
    too. Replacing the evap means tearing apart the dash. Your looking at
    at probably a $5,000 job to do all that. That is why nobody does this,
    espically on a vehicle with a book of probably $2000-$3000 max.

    A $1200 A/C job is going to get you just the parts that are broken and
    leaking, replaced. And the only reasonable expectation anyone can have
    if you do this kind of repair is that it will last 1-2 years, anything
    beyond that
    is found money and your lucky. That is why so many older cars have
    busted A/C. And it is also usually why A/C work is at max warranted for
    a year.

    Ted Mittelstaedt, Jun 2, 2006
  19. Denise Malas

    Bill Putney Guest

    I don't like arrogance either, but I hope you get caught doing that some
    day and get thrown in jail. How is your keying a car any different than
    someone who doesn't like SUV's slicing the tires on Hum V's sitting on a
    dealer's lot, or burning down the delaership? Talk about arrogance,
    brother - you have it in spades.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Jun 2, 2006
  20. Denise Malas

    Ken Weitzel Guest


    Can't help thinking that if the right people catch him doing it,
    being thrown in jail might be a blessing :)

    Take care.

    Ken Weitzel, Jun 2, 2006
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