Eagle Talon (Eclipse) Hydraulic Clutch Problems

A buddy of mine ran into a problem with the hydraulic portion of his clutch
on an Eagle Talon. The details are below. In short, the clutch pedal
master cylinder was replaced. After which he started having problems with
the clutch slipping. As he points out, it seems to be after the system
temperature rises. As an air bubble in the hydraulic line would expand more
with heating, we are think an improperly bled hydraulic circuit. However,
the shop that replaced the master cylinder says it is "crank creep".

As soon as the weather warms a little, he is going to try bleeding the
clutch circuit. In the mean time, any ideas?



Thanks!

Don







My car is an Eagle Talon, 95, Turbo, All Wheel Drive, 103k miles. The
diagnosis was crank creep. The tell-tale sign to the mechanic was when
pushing in the clutch there was a metal-on-metal rattling sound, when
releasing the clutch the sound stopped.

The story is as follows: The clutch had play in it that I asked them to
remove, which they did by adjusting something. It seemed to work, but on
longer drives the clutch would gradually start slipping more and more until
it could be in gear, clutch released and not go anywhere. This is more
related to temperature than distance or clutch usage. Releasing fluid out of
the slave cylinder with the bleeding valve allowed the car to move again.
Given these symptoms the mechanic thought there was grease on the clutch
plates and/or that the clutch was shot. It wasn't until hearing the rattling
sound after pushing in the clutch that he concluded it was crank creep. I
told him to undo the adjustment he did earlier, so I could get rid of the
clutch slip, and that was the end of the visit. I have not had any slipping
since then, nor do I hear the rattling sound when pushing the clutch.

They did say Mitsubishi had some sort of a shim solution to the crank creep
problem, but the mechanic said he wouldn't recommend, or perform, that
repair since it was not a quality solution. The only other solution was to
replace the engine, and might as well do the clutch also, which would be
around the $5000 range.

I've had the car since late '96, about 26k miles, I have not had the clutch
worked on. My theory: The clutch line has air that, as it heats with the
engine, is causing the line to "expand", causing the slave cylinder to
disengage the clutch. The rattling was the clutch being disengaged so far
that it was rubbing against a cover plate or something else. When
un-adjusting the clutch, the air does not expand enough to cause it to
disengage, therefore no slip. Now the clutch does not disengage as far,
therefore no rattling. My plan is to bleed the line with some fluid I have
left, then adjust the pedal to my liking.

 

what year is the car? 95~99 are very prone to thrust bearing failure.
most master cylinder replacements in this car are due to misdiagnosis

 

Description of his car:

 

Sounds like there may be no free play in the master cyl connection to
the pedal. I would check this out and give it a mm or so fo free
play. Quick and easy to do before getting more involved.

 

i do not believe that your issue is with the clutch. it could be but history
points us elsewhere.
the '95 is the worst of the worst from what i have read, suffering more than
it's share of crankwalk failures.
do you hear a ticking sound (other than the rotten lifters.) that comes from
the front of the motor?
does your rpm fall when you depress the clutch?
what does your oil pressure look like at idle? idiot light ever flicker?
i am sorry to tell you that i believe you are about to learn the difference
between a six bolt and a seven bolt 4G63 motor.

my '97 ran great up to 84,000, then the free play on the clutch would just
go away. the clutch would go in and out of adjustment by itself. the
ticking, which was caused by the crank rotor striking the crank angle
sensor, became worse as time progressed.
the car ran great, right up to the point where the rotor ate the sensor and
my ignition went to shit.
follow this link, marco the floppy head explains the issue.
http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/crankwalktheory.htm

what can you do? well a lot of us have followed marco's lead and installed
the so called six bolt motors from the previous generation cars. the swap is
not too tough and the only real fix.
http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/1g2g.asp

how about a support group?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSM1gina2g/

more info here:
www.dsmtalk.com
www.dsmtuners.com
www.teamnabr.com
www.roadraceengineering.com
www.vfaq.com

 

if the clutch master cylinder push rod has freeplay an air bubble in the
line that would expand as heated would just push back int the reservoir

 

uh, no....