Bruce Wappman said:
Ted
Thanks for the article link. I did not know that.
That explains why it is hard to get ATF+4 fluid. I do not know what additives AMSOIL uses or how it is formulated. It has been tested and meets or exceeds the performance specifications of Chrysler ATF+4
Bruce, your really on a slippery slope here.
Saying that Amsoil is tested to meet or exceed the performance specifications of Chrysler ATF +4 is in the realm of possibility. I do believe that it is highly improbable however, because Amsoil claims their transmission fluid also substitutes for Dexron III, and Dexron III and Mopar ATF +4 have very different frictional coefficients. A transmission fluid cannot have 1 frictional coefficient in 1 transmission, and another frictional coefficient in another. For more information on this, please refer to the following link:
http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html
Granted, it's full of testimonials but Amsoil seems to like this, despite the fact that testimonials aren't worth a fig, but near the bottom of the page is a somewhat dumbed-down explanation of why you cannot use Dexron in a Chrysler tranny that calls for ATF +3 or ATF +4.
Of course it is possible for Amsoil to be made to match frictional coefficients of ATF +4. In that case, however, it would be WRONG for transmissions that require Dexron III. That is why I say it's in the realm of possibility. However, I feel it is extremely improbable because the fluid additive for ATF +4 is restricted (according to the article) however the fluid additive for Dexron III is not. (because many people make Dexron III) It is most probable that Amsoil Transmission Fluid is just another Dexron III-compatible fluid.
However, the biggest problem isn't whether Amsoil has reverse-engineered the ATF +4 additive and is making a compatible fluid. The biggest problem is that Amsoil dealers like you are claiming that Amsoil ATF is RATED for ATF +4 and ATF +3.
Saying that Amsoil ATF is rated for ATF +4 implies that Chrysler has certified it for ATF +4, (as much as Chrysler will certify anything) and in the absense of that it implies that there's some kind of standards body that has applied a rating of ATF +4 on the fluid. This is pretty much fraud in my book. There is no such rating body for ATF +4 because ATF +4 fluid is custom-designed for Chrysler who has signed an exclusivity deal with the sole supplier of the additive system designed for ATF +4, which prohibits that oil company from selling the ATF +4 base.
Furthermore, ATF +3 and ATF +4 are both registered trademarks of Chrysler. Amsoil doesen't even properly attribute this with a (R) on it's website, and almost certainly Amsoil hasn't sought approval from Chrysler for their fluids to be marked ATF +3 or ATF +4. While you can get away with only an attribution on sales literature, (since the courts have generally ruled that sales literature is considered a pack of lies) you cannot use someone's registered trademark on a _PRODUCT_ without their permission. It makes me wonder what the actual bottles of Amsoil ATF say. If they have the mark "ATF +3" or "ATF +4" listed ANYWHERE on the bottle, even on the back in the fine print, Amsoil must have permission from Chrysler for this, which quite obviously they do not. And if ATF +3 or ATF +4 isn't on the bottle then legally the product inside the bottle does not need to meet either ATF +3 or ATF +4 standards, despite what lies may be on any accompanying sales literature.
Frankly, I think that there's some grounds for IMLA to boot Amsoil off it's membership roles, it's amazing that someone hasn't complained yet. For Amsoil to go to the general public and claim to be selling ATF +4 compatible ATF, then privately though ILMA bitch to Chrysler that they can't buy the additive system for ATF +4 is pretty two-faced.
Ted
