Ceramic Brake Pads - T & C

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Frank Boettcher

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Anyone using Ceramics on '99 or so T & C. Last brake job I got they put some real junk pads on. Noisy (growl at low speed stop) and dust real bad. Thinking about dumping the pads and replacing with ceramics.
 
Frank said:
Anyone using Ceramics on '99 or so T & C. Last brake job I got they put some real junk pads on. Noisy (growl at low speed stop) and dust real bad. Thinking about dumping the pads and replacing with ceramics.
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The word 'ceramic' applied to brake pads is like the word 'natural' applied to food. As one brake manufacturing engineer explained it to me, you can put enough ceramic powder in the mix to equal a pinch of pepper and market it as a ceramic.

'Ceramic' is the big buzz word in brakes these days and there's a lot of junk out there with that label. There are all kinds of things that have to be properly engineered in a brake pad - the binders for one (which have nothing to do with the ceramic component) - and they themselves can be a real problem with filming issues.

Whatever type of pad you get, get one from a manufacturer you trust.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
 
The word 'ceramic' applied to brake pads is like the word 'natural' applied to food. As one brake manufacturing engineer explained it to me, you can put enough ceramic powder in the mix to equal a pinch of pepper and market it as a ceramic.

'Ceramic' is the big buzz word in brakes these days and there's a lot of junk out there with that label. There are all kinds of things that have to be properly engineered in a brake pad - the binders for one (which have nothing to do with the ceramic component) - and they themselves can be a real problem with filming issues.

Whatever type of pad you get, get one from a manufacturer you trust.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
Click to expand...

I was very impressed with the Akebono ceramic pads I installed on my son's Honda Accord. More than likely, that is what I will go with. What I have on there now (quick brake job before a trip) is pure junk.
 
Akebono's are among the very best. They invented ceramic pads, or so they claim. Tire Rack is a good source. Great performance on my 04 T&C and 01 PT Cruiser.

Richard.
 
I've got Raybestos "Quiet Stop" on my 99T&C AWD. Very disappointing - just as dirty as the OEM even though they claim "ultra low dusting". I've never been impressed with the braking capability on this vehicle and these pads didn't improve anything. I'm going to try the Akebono's next. Has anyone found a retailer in Canada for Akebono?

Will
 
I've got Raybestos "Quiet Stop" on my 99T&C AWD. Very disappointing - just as dirty as the OEM even though they claim "ultra low dusting".
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I'd rather wash my wheels weekly than use ultra-hard ceramic pads that chew up the rotors and reduce stopping effectiveness. The PAD is the expendable/replaceable part, not the rotor.
 
I've got Raybestos "Quiet Stop" on my 99T&C AWD. Very disappointing - just as dirty as the OEM even though they claim "ultra low dusting". I've never been impressed with the braking capability on this vehicle and these pads didn't improve anything. I'm going to try the Akebono's next. Has anyone found a retailer in Canada for Akebono?

Will
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I am in Canada and am interested in this as well.

I also recall someone talking about special rotors for the Caravan that had venting holes drilled in them similar to those seen on Motorcycles. The idea being that the lower temperature would extend the life of the parts and increase the braking efficiency.

Does anyone know what brand these are? How much? Dealer in Canada?

Thanks!
 
Steve said:
I'd rather wash my wheels weekly than use ultra-hard ceramic pads that chew up the rotors and reduce stopping effectiveness. The PAD is the expendable/replaceable part, not the rotor.
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What pads do you use - and do they perform better? I don't care how dirty the wheels get, I just want effective brakes.
 
Will said:
I've got Raybestos "Quiet Stop" on my 99T&C AWD. Very disappointing - just as dirty as the OEM even though they claim "ultra low dusting". I've never been impressed with the braking capability on this vehicle and these pads didn't improve anything. I'm going to try the Akebono's next. Has anyone found a retailer in Canada for Akebono?
Click to expand...

Have you *ever* seen ad copy for *any* brake pad that did *not* say "ULTRA LOW DUSTING" *AND* "ROTOR FRIENDLY"? I don't think I have. :)

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
 
Will said:
What pads do you use - and do they perform better? I don't care how dirty the wheels get, I just want effective brakes.
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On the strong recommendation of Frozen Rotors, I tried a set of Performance Friction's "Z-Rated" pads. They have been superb. (I can't speak for dusting because I work in a mining area and my car stays dirty and I wouldn't know brake dust from the mining dust.)

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
 
I'd rather wash my wheels weekly than use ultra-hard ceramic pads that chew up the rotors and reduce stopping effectiveness. The PAD is the expendable/replaceable part, not the rotor.
Click to expand...

That '97 Accord mentioned in my earlier post has had ceramics all it's life, currently Akebono's. Has the original rotors. 155K miles. No excessive wear or "chewing" of the rotors.

Frank
 
Frank said:
That '97 Accord mentioned in my earlier post has had ceramics all it's life, currently Akebono's. Has the original rotors. 155K miles. No excessive wear or "chewing" of the rotors.

Frank
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I have experience with both Accord and Grand Caravan. OEM front pads and rotors on the Grand Caravan/T&C are marginal to begin with, and aggressive pads only make the rotor wear problem worse. Never had issues with Accord brakes, pads or rotors, though many experienced the rotor warping issue. The Accord is, what, HALF the weight of a GC/TC, especially a loaded GC/TC?
 
RWM said:
I have experience with both Accord and Grand Caravan. OEM front pads and rotors on the Grand Caravan/T&C are marginal to begin with, and aggressive pads only make the rotor wear problem worse. Never had issues with Accord brakes, pads or rotors, though many experienced the rotor warping issue. The Accord is, what, HALF the weight of a GC/TC, especially a loaded GC/TC?
Click to expand...

I'm of the opinion that what people automatically assume is rotor warp is often instead a non-uniform filming issue caused by the pad binders (whether the pads are ceramic or otherwise). Particularly when the vibration comes and goes from one day to the next, with type of brake usage, with ambient temperatures, stop-and-go vs. highway driving, etc, I suspect pad filming issues. Rotors don't just warp and unwarp from one day to the next.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
 
Bill Putney said:
I'm of the opinion that what people automatically assume is rotor warp is often instead a non-uniform filming issue caused by the pad binders (whether the pads are ceramic or otherwise). Particularly when the vibration comes and goes from one day to the next, with type of brake usage, with ambient temperatures, stop-and-go vs. highway driving, etc, I suspect pad filming issues. Rotors don't just warp and unwarp from one day to the next.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
Click to expand...

Correct on so called rotor warp. I have found that the ceramic pads I have used on two Chrysler mini-vans and my PT Cruiser have caused less than expected wear on the rotors and have actually eliminated the wheel dust problem with these vehicles. Such pads are standard on may Asian vehicles such as Toyota. Too bad no one makes ceramic pads for the rear of the Cruiser. Too many sold with rear drums to attract vender attention I guess.

Richard.
 
I thought Chrysler worked with ceramic brake materials in production cars in the late 1950's ? Thought I saw an article on it at he ALLPAR web site ?

I use NAPA Ceramix pads on my T-Bird. Seems to help with the rotor warp issues of that car.

Steve
 
Steve said:
I thought Chrysler worked with ceramic brake materials in production cars in the late 1950's ? Thought I saw an article on it at he ALLPAR web site ?

I use NAPA Ceramix pads on my T-Bird. Seems to help with the rotor warp issues of that car.

Steve
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Challenge: Give me a credible explanation of how pad material can affect rotor warp given that the heat generated by the driver applying pedal pressure for the identical braking effect would be the same regardless of pad material.

As stated before, I believe that what many automatically assume is rotor warp is really an uneven pad filming issue. IOW, a particular pad that does not result in brake vibration might be assumed to not be causing rotor warp, when in reality it may simply have better, more uniform filming characteristics (probably determined by binder properties as much as the pad material descriptor (i.e., ceramic, metallic, carbon metallic, ferro-carbon, etc., etc., etc., etc.).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
 
NewMan said:
I am in Canada and am interested in this as well.

I also recall someone talking about special rotors for the Caravan that had venting holes drilled in them similar to those seen on Motorcycles. The idea being that the lower temperature would extend the life of the parts and increase the braking efficiency.

Does anyone know what brand these are? How much? Dealer in Canada?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Turns out AKEBONO does not have any retail distribution in Canada. I ordered a set of Akebono pro-act pads from Rockauto.com, they were cheaper than Tirerack.com. Lets see how long it takes for the global express mail to get them to Toronto.....

Will
 
You close enough to the border to have them shipped to a drop point and pick them up?

I live in Vancouver, and there are lots of little places like this in a little town just across the line called Blaine. You don't even have to rent a box. They will just charge you a per-package receiving fee. All you have to do is call in advance and let them know something is coming. They call you when the package comes in.

Just a thought.

Having said that, are there any ceramic pads worth buying available in Canada?
 
I'm in Toronto - it's hardly worth driving to Buffalo to save $20 shipping, but in some circumstances, your scenario makes sense.

As I said, I've tried the Raybestos QS and have not been impressed. They are due for replacement as my brake fluid level is low - they lasted about 30,000 Km on new rotors. There's material left on the pads, but there is now a groaning noise sometimes during braking. The rotors don't appear to be worn severely - I'll resurface them.
 
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