Ceramic Brake Pads - T & C

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Frank Boettcher, Apr 17, 2006.

  1. Anyone using Ceramics on '99 or so T & C. Last brake job I got they
    put some real junk pads on. Noisy (growl at low speed stop) and dust
    real bad. Thinking about dumping the pads and replacing with
    Frank Boettcher, Apr 17, 2006
  2. Frank Boettcher

    Bill Putney Guest

    The word 'ceramic' applied to brake pads is like the word 'natural'
    applied to food. As one brake manufacturing engineer explained it to
    me, you can put enough ceramic powder in the mix to equal a pinch of
    pepper and market it as a ceramic.

    'Ceramic' is the big buzz word in brakes these days and there's a lot of
    junk out there with that label. There are all kinds of things that have
    to be properly engineered in a brake pad - the binders for one (which
    have nothing to do with the ceramic component) - and they themselves can
    be a real problem with filming issues.

    Whatever type of pad you get, get one from a manufacturer you trust.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Apr 18, 2006
  3. I was very impressed with the Akebono ceramic pads I installed on my
    son's Honda Accord. More than likely, that is what I will go with.
    What I have on there now (quick brake job before a trip) is pure junk.
    Frank Boettcher, Apr 18, 2006
  4. I use Akebono on a 2003 T&C with no problems and no dust.

    Marvin Stockman
    marvinstockman, Apr 18, 2006
  5. Frank Boettcher

    Richard Guest

    Akebono's are among the very best. They invented ceramic pads, or so they
    claim. Tire Rack is a good source. Great performance on my 04 T&C and 01 PT

    Richard, Apr 21, 2006
  6. Frank Boettcher

    Will Halina Guest

    I've got Raybestos "Quiet Stop" on my 99T&C AWD. Very disappointing - just
    as dirty as the OEM even though they claim "ultra low dusting". I've never
    been impressed with the braking capability on this vehicle and these pads
    didn't improve anything. I'm going to try the Akebono's next. Has anyone
    found a retailer in Canada for Akebono?

    Will Halina, Apr 21, 2006
  7. Frank Boettcher

    Steve Guest

    I'd rather wash my wheels weekly than use ultra-hard ceramic pads that
    chew up the rotors and reduce stopping effectiveness. The PAD is the
    expendable/replaceable part, not the rotor.
    Steve, Apr 21, 2006
  8. Frank Boettcher

    NewMan Guest

    I am in Canada and am interested in this as well.

    I also recall someone talking about special rotors for the Caravan
    that had venting holes drilled in them similar to those seen on
    Motorcycles. The idea being that the lower temperature would extend
    the life of the parts and increase the braking efficiency.

    Does anyone know what brand these are? How much? Dealer in Canada?

    NewMan, Apr 21, 2006
  9. Frank Boettcher

    Will Halina Guest

    What pads do you use - and do they perform better? I don't care how dirty
    the wheels get, I just want effective brakes.
    Will Halina, Apr 21, 2006
  10. Frank Boettcher

    Bill Putney Guest

    Have you *ever* seen ad copy for *any* brake pad that did *not* say
    "ULTRA LOW DUSTING" *AND* "ROTOR FRIENDLY"? I don't think I have. :)

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Apr 22, 2006
  11. Frank Boettcher

    Bill Putney Guest

    On the strong recommendation of Frozen Rotors, I tried a set of
    Performance Friction's "Z-Rated" pads. They have been superb. (I can't
    speak for dusting because I work in a mining area and my car stays dirty
    and I wouldn't know brake dust from the mining dust.)

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Apr 22, 2006

  12. That '97 Accord mentioned in my earlier post has had ceramics all it's
    life, currently Akebono's. Has the original rotors. 155K miles. No
    excessive wear or "chewing" of the rotors.

    Frank Boettcher, Apr 22, 2006
  13. Frank Boettcher

    RWM Guest

    I have experience with both Accord and Grand Caravan. OEM front pads
    and rotors on the Grand Caravan/T&C are marginal to begin with, and
    aggressive pads only make the rotor wear problem worse. Never had
    issues with Accord brakes, pads or rotors, though many experienced the
    rotor warping issue. The Accord is, what, HALF the weight of a GC/TC,
    especially a loaded GC/TC?
    RWM, Apr 22, 2006
  14. Frank Boettcher

    Bill Putney Guest

    I'm of the opinion that what people automatically assume is rotor warp
    is often instead a non-uniform filming issue caused by the pad binders
    (whether the pads are ceramic or otherwise). Particularly when the
    vibration comes and goes from one day to the next, with type of brake
    usage, with ambient temperatures, stop-and-go vs. highway driving, etc,
    I suspect pad filming issues. Rotors don't just warp and unwarp from
    one day to the next.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Apr 22, 2006
  15. Frank Boettcher

    Richard Guest

    Correct on so called rotor warp. I have found that the ceramic pads I have
    used on two Chrysler mini-vans and my PT Cruiser have caused less than
    expected wear on the rotors and have actually eliminated the wheel dust
    problem with these vehicles. Such pads are standard on may Asian vehicles
    such as Toyota. Too bad no one makes ceramic pads for the rear of the
    Cruiser. Too many sold with rear drums to attract vender attention I guess.

    Richard, Apr 22, 2006
  16. Frank Boettcher

    Steve Stone Guest

    I thought Chrysler worked with ceramic brake materials in production cars in
    the late 1950's ? Thought I saw an article on it at he ALLPAR web site ?

    I use NAPA Ceramix pads on my T-Bird. Seems to help with the rotor warp
    issues of that car.

    Steve Stone, Apr 23, 2006
  17. Frank Boettcher

    Bill Putney Guest

    Challenge: Give me a credible explanation of how pad material can affect
    rotor warp given that the heat generated by the driver applying pedal
    pressure for the identical braking effect would be the same regardless
    of pad material.

    As stated before, I believe that what many automatically assume is rotor
    warp is really an uneven pad filming issue. IOW, a particular pad that
    does not result in brake vibration might be assumed to not be causing
    rotor warp, when in reality it may simply have better, more uniform
    filming characteristics (probably determined by binder properties as
    much as the pad material descriptor (i.e., ceramic, metallic, carbon
    metallic, ferro-carbon, etc., etc., etc., etc.).

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Apr 23, 2006
  18. Frank Boettcher

    Will Halina Guest

    Turns out AKEBONO does not have any retail distribution in Canada. I
    ordered a set of Akebono pro-act pads from Rockauto.com, they were cheaper
    than Tirerack.com. Lets see how long it takes for the global express mail
    to get them to Toronto.....

    Will Halina, Apr 25, 2006
  19. Frank Boettcher

    NewMan Guest

    You close enough to the border to have them shipped to a drop point
    and pick them up?

    I live in Vancouver, and there are lots of little places like this in
    a little town just across the line called Blaine. You don't even have
    to rent a box. They will just charge you a per-package receiving fee.
    All you have to do is call in advance and let them know something is
    coming. They call you when the package comes in.

    Just a thought.

    Having said that, are there any ceramic pads worth buying available in
    NewMan, Apr 25, 2006
  20. Frank Boettcher

    Will Halina Guest

    I'm in Toronto - it's hardly worth driving to Buffalo to save $20 shipping,
    but in some circumstances, your scenario makes sense.

    As I said, I've tried the Raybestos QS and have not been impressed. They
    are due for replacement as my brake fluid level is low - they lasted about
    30,000 Km on new rotors. There's material left on the pads, but there is
    now a groaning noise sometimes during braking. The rotors don't appear to
    be worn severely - I'll resurface them.
    Will Halina, Apr 28, 2006
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