Autm. car: Put in Neutral at Red Traffic Lights?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Christian
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Christian

I would like to know your opinion about the fact to put the gear in
(N) Neutral at the red traffic lights or just keep pressed the brake
in (D) Drive?
I sow many people change from D to N during this time.

When I drove a classic car (manual), in the past, I used to put the
gear in neutral also during the red traffic lights, of couse the
transmission system is total different.

My actual car is a Voyager 89, 4 cyls, 2.5 tbi.

Thanks for you comments,
Chris
 
Christian said:
I would like to know your opinion about the fact to put the gear in
(N) Neutral at the red traffic lights or just keep pressed the brake
in (D) Drive?
I sow many people change from D to N during this time.

When I drove a classic car (manual), in the past, I used to put the
gear in neutral also during the red traffic lights, of couse the
transmission system is total different.

My actual car is a Voyager 89, 4 cyls, 2.5 tbi.

Thanks for you comments,
Chris

Shifting into Neutral may cause extra transmission wear because it will
downshift to 1st when you stop, then shift to neutral, then back to 1st when
you want to go. It would be minimal but it is a factor. You could shift into
neutral as you approach, but you won't be in gear if you need it.

However if the wait will be long, it could be beneficial to shift to
neutral.
 
Bill said:
Shifting into Neutral may cause extra transmission wear because it will
downshift to 1st when you stop, then shift to neutral, then back to 1st when
you want to go. It would be minimal but it is a factor. You could shift into
neutral as you approach, but you won't be in gear if you need it.

However if the wait will be long, it could be beneficial to shift to
neutral.

I think Bill is right about the wear being greater if you shift to
neutral at a red light. But you did not say WHY you were asking!
(Are you trying to avoid unexpected accelleration?) - RM
 
Dunno about wear, but.... it is very dangerous to take your foot off the
brake while waiting at a traffic signal,, someone only needs to tap you (5
mph or so)to drive you into another vehicle, or worse into the intersection
,,,, neutral,, I don't care, but keep your foot on that brake and your eyes
open !!

Just my $.02
 
Christian said:
I would like to know your opinion about the fact to put the gear in
(N) Neutral at the red traffic lights or just keep pressed the brake
in (D) Drive?
I sow many people change from D to N during this time.

When I drove a classic car (manual), in the past, I used to put the
gear in neutral also during the red traffic lights, of couse the
transmission system is total different.

My actual car is a Voyager 89, 4 cyls, 2.5 tbi.

Thanks for you comments,
Chris

I see no practical benefit from doing this. If anything, the extra
shifting will wear out the transmission faster. I can't think of
anything off-hand that wears out more from being in gear at a stop. The
TC is dragging a little, but nothing is wearing in it.

A manual is different as you are wearing the throw-out bearing sitting
with the clutch depressed for a long period of time. Plus your foot
gets tired if you are driving a very big truck.


Matt
 
Christian said:
I would like to know your opinion about the fact to put the gear in
(N) Neutral at the red traffic lights or just keep pressed the brake
in (D) Drive?
I sow many people change from D to N during this time.

When I drove a classic car (manual), in the past, I used to put the
gear in neutral also during the red traffic lights, of couse the
transmission system is total different.

My actual car is a Voyager 89, 4 cyls, 2.5 tbi.

Thanks for you comments,
Chris

In some parts of the world, the recommendation is to place the vehicle into
neutral and apply the parking brake.. this procedure must be followed during
a driving test.. however, most after having passed said test just depress
the clutch and brake pedal.. with auto transmission, most people just keep
the brake depressed at lights because the stop will be relatively short, and
one of the main reasons for having auto trans in the first place is to avoid
changing in and out of gear.. the problem with leaving the vehicle in drive
is that if you are rear ended, the jolt might make you take pressure off the
brake pedal, and you will 'power' forwards.. best is to leave in drive, but
use the parking brake if it is the type where the lever is between the
seats.. for long stops, place the vehicle in 'park'.. do whatever you feel
is right for you
 
Mike said:
In some parts of the world, the recommendation is to place the vehicle into
neutral and apply the parking brake.. this procedure must be followed during
a driving test.. however, most after having passed said test just depress
the clutch and brake pedal.. with auto transmission, most people just keep
the brake depressed at lights because the stop will be relatively short, and
one of the main reasons for having auto trans in the first place is to avoid
changing in and out of gear.. the problem with leaving the vehicle in drive
is that if you are rear ended, the jolt might make you take pressure off the
brake pedal, and you will 'power' forwards.. best is to leave in drive, but
use the parking brake if it is the type where the lever is between the
seats.. for long stops, place the vehicle in 'park'.. do whatever you feel
is right for you

I've never seen, heard (before now) or read a recommendation to use the
parking brake when in traffic. What parts of the world recommend that?
I can't imagine something more stupid than that. If you are pulled
off to the side of the road and parking, then, yes, apply the parking
brake. However, not in traffic, unless you are backed up for a wreck or
something and know that you will be there a long time. However, the
question was waiting at traffic lights and that is not the place to use
the parking brake.


Matt
 
Matthew S. Whiting said:
I've never seen, heard (before now) or read a recommendation to use the
parking brake when in traffic. What parts of the world recommend that?
I can't imagine something more stupid than that. If you are pulled
off to the side of the road and parking, then, yes, apply the parking
brake. However, not in traffic, unless you are backed up for a wreck or
something and know that you will be there a long time. However, the
question was waiting at traffic lights and that is not the place to use
the parking brake.


Matt

In the UK, it is known as a 'hand'brake, and they do recommend that it is
used whenever the vehicle is brought to a halt.. the premis is that with the
handbrake applied, the vehicle can't move in any direction inadvertantly
unless great force is applied..
 
Mike said:
In the UK, it is known as a 'hand'brake, and they do recommend that it is
used whenever the vehicle is brought to a halt.. the premis is that with the
handbrake applied, the vehicle can't move in any direction inadvertantly
unless great force is applied..

I don't think 89 Voyager's have a hand brake. Yes, a hand actuated
break is quite different from a typical American style parking break.
When I had cars with a hand brake, I used it on hills when I had a
standard transmission, but never felt the need with an automatic. Since
the OP mentioned an automatic in a vehicle with a foot actuated parking
brake, I answered in that context.

I lived an drove in the UK for several months and this recommendation
doesn't surprise me! :-)

However, the stated premise is bogus. Most hand brakes only operate on
the rear wheels. Most cars have most of their weight on the front
wheels. Holding the foot brake provides probably 3X as much resistance
to motion as does the hand brake. So, if preventing the car from being
pushed into an intersection is the goal, then holding the foot brake
firmly is much more effective, and can be released more quickly if the
driver needs to move quickly to avoid being rear-ended or some such.


Matt
 
Matthew S. Whiting said:
I don't think 89 Voyager's have a hand brake. Yes, a hand actuated
break is quite different from a typical American style parking break.
When I had cars with a hand brake, I used it on hills when I had a
standard transmission, but never felt the need with an automatic. Since
the OP mentioned an automatic in a vehicle with a foot actuated parking
brake, I answered in that context.

Re. the difference between a US parking and UK handbrake, while the
positioning and modus operandii may be different, the brake works in
essentially the same way.. the only reason that the parking brake was/is
foot operated is because of the bench seat configuration that did not allow
for the placement of a centre mounted 'easy to get at'
hand/parking/emergency brake.. the Brit answer for the bench seat
configuration was the 'Shooting Brake', a manually operated handle and
trigger system in roughly the same position as the north american foot
operated parking/emergency brake.. a piece of trivia for you.. Brit Station
Wagons, known as Estates there (but known as Touring in Euro) were often
referred to a Shooting Brakes partly because of the type of handbrake used,
and also because they were favored by the 'country set/shooting/hunting'
cliques..

In the manual for my Grand Cherokee, it states that when parking, the
transmission should be placed in the 'park' position AND the manual brake
applied.. the park position is not an alternative to the parking brake and
should not be treated in that way.. but most of us are lazy, and the foot
operated parking brakes are awkward at best.. in our old S10, I sometimes
left it with the parking brake applied, and when my wife gotten into it, she
would 'pop' the hood.. the parking brake release was just above the hood
release and looked similar.. placement like that does not encourage use of
the manual brake regardless of what it is called across the world..
I lived an drove in the UK for several months and this recommendation
doesn't surprise me! :-)

Accepting the smiley, Brits emigrating to Canada do not have to be retested
if they hold a UK driving licence.. partly due to the colonial links maybe,
but also because the UK test is tougher than most.. I am not suggesting that
they are all necessarily better drivers, but they do not have the excuse
that they were not well informed prior to being allowed to drive.. lol..
However, the stated premise is bogus. Most hand brakes only operate on
the rear wheels. Most cars have most of their weight on the front
wheels. Holding the foot brake provides probably 3X as much resistance
to motion as does the hand brake. So, if preventing the car from being
pushed into an intersection is the goal, then holding the foot brake
firmly is much more effective, and can be released more quickly if the
driver needs to move quickly to avoid being rear-ended or some such.

Hand brakes operate on rear wheels because it was thought to be more
effective to have the driving axle braked, and also because it was easier to
route a linkage to the fixed axle at the back, regardless of weight
distribution.. some Italian cars have had front wheel parking brakes, Alfa
Romeo for example, but they are not the norm..

Holding the foot brake down is obviously more effective than the pressure
that can be applied by any manual braking system, but this assumes that
pressure is still being exerted.. in the event of being rear ended, the
shock could momentarily cause you to release pressure.. the idea of moving
forwards quickly to avoid a rear hit is ok as long as nobody is in front of
you.. a car, truck or rig would be bad enough, but a mother and two kids
crossing at the lights would be much worse.. that is not to say that a
handbraked car would not move forwards, but it would not move anything like
as far or fast as a car in 'drive' and no brakes being applied in the split
second after the impact..

Matt, I am not attempting to 'troll' here.. for the most part, I have the
same bad habits as everybody else.. unfortunately, that does not vindicate
us in a court when charged with involuntary manslaughter.. the argument that
we were saving the transmission or the manual brake was just too difficult
to get at, and in any case, eating a burger and holding a Coke while talking
on the cellphone was as much as could be coped with at the time of being
rear ended by someone doing the same plus looking at a map precariously
balanced on the steering wheel.. I have seen Brits doing just that.. lol..

My grandfather once said that sometimes pedestrians were not always easy to
see, and that it was their duty to get out of the way.. I asked him for an
instance and he came back with a dirty windshield scenario.. when I
suggested that maybe he owed it to other road users to keep his windshield
clean, he looked at me quizically.. lol..

Stay safe, Matt.. and I propose a toast.. let us hope that our laziness and
bad habits only become a problem when there is nobody around to hit..
Salut.. :)
 
| I would like to know your opinion about the fact to put the gear in
| (N) Neutral at the red traffic lights or just keep pressed the brake
| in (D) Drive?
| I sow many people change from D to N during this time.
|
| When I drove a classic car (manual), in the past, I used to put the
| gear in neutral also during the red traffic lights, of couse the
| transmission system is total different.
|
| My actual car is a Voyager 89, 4 cyls, 2.5 tbi.
|
| Thanks for you comments,
| Chris

Not necessary unless you will be stopped for several minutes (e.g. a accident
ahead has the street closed). Normal traffic light cycle times, no.
 
Mike said:
Re. the difference between a US parking and UK handbrake, while the
positioning and modus operandii may be different, the brake works in
essentially the same way.. the only reason that the parking brake was/is
foot operated is because of the bench seat configuration that did not allow
for the placement of a centre mounted 'easy to get at'
hand/parking/emergency brake.. the Brit answer for the bench seat
configuration was the 'Shooting Brake', a manually operated handle and
trigger system in roughly the same position as the north american foot
operated parking/emergency brake.. a piece of trivia for you.. Brit Station
Wagons, known as Estates there (but known as Touring in Euro) were often
referred to a Shooting Brakes partly because of the type of handbrake used,
and also because they were favored by the 'country set/shooting/hunting'
cliques..

I think there is quite a significant difference. The console mounted
hand brake can be easily applied, released and even modulated all with
one hand. The American style foot parking brake requires the foot to
apply, the hand to release and isn't easily modulated. The main
exception is some foot brakes where you apply it with your foot and then
press it again with your foot to release it. The has the advantage of
not requiring two limbs to operate, but it still can't be modulated.

In the manual for my Grand Cherokee, it states that when parking, the
transmission should be placed in the 'park' position AND the manual brake
applied.. the park position is not an alternative to the parking brake and
should not be treated in that way.. but most of us are lazy, and the foot
operated parking brakes are awkward at best.. in our old S10, I sometimes
left it with the parking brake applied, and when my wife gotten into it, she
would 'pop' the hood.. the parking brake release was just above the hood
release and looked similar.. placement like that does not encourage use of
the manual brake regardless of what it is called across the world..




Accepting the smiley, Brits emigrating to Canada do not have to be retested
if they hold a UK driving licence.. partly due to the colonial links maybe,
but also because the UK test is tougher than most.. I am not suggesting that
they are all necessarily better drivers, but they do not have the excuse
that they were not well informed prior to being allowed to drive.. lol..

I wasn't commenting on the quality of British drivers, I was commenting
on some of the ridiculous government requirements in Britain!

Hand brakes operate on rear wheels because it was thought to be more
effective to have the driving axle braked, and also because it was easier to
route a linkage to the fixed axle at the back, regardless of weight
distribution.. some Italian cars have had front wheel parking brakes, Alfa
Romeo for example, but they are not the norm..

Trouble is, few cars in Japan or the US are RWD. And the minivan in
question in this thread is FWD.

Holding the foot brake down is obviously more effective than the pressure
that can be applied by any manual braking system, but this assumes that
pressure is still being exerted.. in the event of being rear ended, the
shock could momentarily cause you to release pressure.. the idea of moving
forwards quickly to avoid a rear hit is ok as long as nobody is in front of
you.. a car, truck or rig would be bad enough, but a mother and two kids
crossing at the lights would be much worse.. that is not to say that a
handbraked car would not move forwards, but it would not move anything like
as far or fast as a car in 'drive' and no brakes being applied in the split
second after the impact..

Matt, I am not attempting to 'troll' here.. for the most part, I have the
same bad habits as everybody else.. unfortunately, that does not vindicate
us in a court when charged with involuntary manslaughter.. the argument that
we were saving the transmission or the manual brake was just too difficult
to get at, and in any case, eating a burger and holding a Coke while talking
on the cellphone was as much as could be coped with at the time of being
rear ended by someone doing the same plus looking at a map precariously
balanced on the steering wheel.. I have seen Brits doing just that.. lol..

Yes, bad driving is not the domain of any one country to be sure. I've
been in several large cities in Europe as well as cities such as St.
Petersburg, Russia. I think Russia and Italy probably have the worst
drivers overall with France not far behind, at least of the places I've
been in or know something about. I think American drivers are in
general less skillful than those in Europe, but, IMO, the European drive
much more aggressively and recklessly and this extra risk taking more
than offsets any skill advantage.

My grandfather once said that sometimes pedestrians were not always easy to
see, and that it was their duty to get out of the way.. I asked him for an
instance and he came back with a dirty windshield scenario.. when I
suggested that maybe he owed it to other road users to keep his windshield
clean, he looked at me quizically.. lol..

And the laws in most countries do not agree with your grandfather.

Stay safe, Matt.. and I propose a toast.. let us hope that our laziness and
bad habits only become a problem when there is nobody around to hit..
Salut.. :)

Cheers,
Matt
 
Beg to disagree. I have had a foot-operated parking brake in Europe for
years and much prefer it. (Mercedes only introduced the 'handbrake' in the
190 because there was no room for a foot-operated one.)

DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

Mike Hall said:
[....................
and the foot
operated parking brakes are awkward at best..
[...............]
 
I would like to know your opinion about the fact to put the gear in
(N) Neutral at the red traffic lights or just keep pressed the brake
in (D) Drive?
I sow many people change from D to N during this time.

When I drove a classic car (manual), in the past, I used to put the
gear in neutral also during the red traffic lights, of couse the
transmission system is total different.

My actual car is a Voyager 89, 4 cyls, 2.5 tbi.

Thanks for you comments,
Chris

Thank you for your good information and advices.
Chris
 
Dori said:
Beg to disagree. I have had a foot-operated parking brake in Europe for
years and much prefer it. (Mercedes only introduced the 'handbrake' in the
190 because there was no room for a foot-operated one.)

DAS

I'm curious, why did you prefer it? I've had cars with both and I find
the hand brake much more versatile. The foot parking brake really is
only useful for parking, whereas, the hand brake is useful for parking,
hill holding, skid practice, etc.


Matt
 
Matthew said:
I'm curious, why did you prefer it? I've had cars with both and I find
the hand brake much more versatile. The foot parking brake really is
only useful for parking, whereas, the hand brake is useful for parking,
hill holding, skid practice, etc.
My experience is that hand brakes aren't much good for ANYTHING. They
rarely have enough leverage to actually apply the brakes, or are
adjusted for so much lever travel relative to brake shoe travel (to get
the needed leverage) that they go out of adjustment in 10,000 miles. At
the other extreme, foot-brakes rarely DON'T work.

As for hill holding- better to learn heel-and-toe technique than to fool
around with a handbrake.
 
Easy to apply, easy to release. I have been driving automatics for years,
so hill holding is not so critical, though my newer car (year 2001) does,
rather disconcertingly, roll back on a hill. I can do hill starts with the
foot-operated brake. You're not really supposed to hold the car for long on
a hill, otherwise the clutch would go, no? I don't have many hill starts.

I don't practise skids.

Stuff in the tray between the seats doesn't interfere with my grip.

Ergo, I am satisfied with the foot brake.

And in case you ask, I frequently rent cars which have manual gear boxes and
hand brakes. And my older car is an afore-mentioned automatic Merc 190 with
hand-operated parking break.

Maybe if I lived in the hills and had a manual transmission I might think
differently.

DAS
 
Steve said:
My experience is that hand brakes aren't much good for ANYTHING. They
rarely have enough leverage to actually apply the brakes, or are
adjusted for so much lever travel relative to brake shoe travel (to get
the needed leverage) that they go out of adjustment in 10,000 miles. At
the other extreme, foot-brakes rarely DON'T work.

Well, you've never had a hand brake that was well designed and/or
adjusted properly. I could lock the rear wheels with the hand brake in
my Honda Accord. It was about the only thing in that car that worked
well, but that's another story! :-)

As for hill holding- better to learn heel-and-toe technique than to fool
around with a handbrake.

Heel and toe doesn't work well with a Chevy pickup, but then it lacks a
hand brake so that doesn't work well either! Luckily, Low gear is so
low that you'd have to be a real clutz to stall it.


Matt
 
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