Are your headlight lenses getting cloudy?

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Rick, Sep 2, 2005.

  1. Rick

    Bill Putney Guest

    Would not a more menaingful statisitc for apples-to-apples comparison be
    deaths per vehicle mile traveled, alluded to in another post by Daniel
    Stern?

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
     
    Bill Putney, Sep 3, 2005
    #41
  2. I agree with you.
    Nope, it affects all makes with plastic lenses. Some sooner, and some
    later, but it does affect all of them. Volvo got bitten so badly by
    plastic lenses (made by a very reputable lighting company, yet) in their
    '86-'93 240 and '89-'94 740/940 cars that they went back to glass and are
    only just now beginning to use plastic again. LOTS of Japanese cars with
    five or six years on 'em and cloudy lenses, even up here in non-desert
    Toronto. Plenty of GMs, though GM does seem to use a higher grade of lens
    material that doesn't go yellow quite as quickly.

    DS
     
    Daniel J. Stern, Sep 3, 2005
    #42
  3. It *was* glass. The fog was outgassing from plastic, rubber and coating
    materials in the headlamp and its bulbs. Same stuff that builds up on the
    inside of the windshield.
    Oh, I agree, but realistically speaking, NHTSA will not do anything about
    it. Write your Congressman and here's what happens: He forwards your
    complaint to NHTSA, who says "The headlamps on that make/model/year meet
    Federal standards. All plastic-lens headlamps have to meet the Arizona
    Test and the Florida Test. NHTSA, People Saving People." Write to the
    automaker and here's what happens: You get a letter back saying "Thank you
    for taking the time to share your concern and/or question with us. All
    lighting devices on your 2001 Toothgnasher Superflash meet all applicable
    Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards."
    It would be nice if you were right.
    Congress as a whole.
     
    Daniel J. Stern, Sep 3, 2005
    #43
  4. Not really. When you look at the two measures that are used (fatalities
    per vehicle-kilometre travelled, and fatalities per vehicle registered)
    you get pretty comparable stats. Especially when you're comparing
    countries with very similar driving conditions (e.g. US vs. Australia).
    ....they have smaller cars, they have higher speed limits, they have
    narrower streets...

    Nope. All of the countries that are better/safer than we are are rich
    1st-world countries. See www.scienceservingsociety.com .
    Well, sure, in the mid '70s, the US was far and away number one in both
    measures. That we have slipped so far is especially sad, because it didn't
    have to happen.
    Domestic-car safety wasn't any better.
    Well...no. Not really. What NHTSA did was codify what automakers were
    doing already, which was along SAE lines, and SAE is made up of
    automaker's representatives. So what wound up happening with the creation
    of NHTSA was the formalization of an "Automakers, do whatever you want,
    and every so often we'll yap at you to hurry it up" type system. Ralph
    Nader, often billed as a great crusader for auto safety, was nothing of
    the sort. Although his activities that in part resulted in the creation of
    NHTSA did launch his career, he also did tremendous and lasting damage to
    auto safety in North America by effectively setting up a legalistic,
    acrimonious, adversarial relationship between the regulators and the
    regulated parties. Gee, a lawyer setting things up to keep him and his ilk
    in business forever, who'd've thunk it?

    Remember, too, that auto safety agencies were being set up at around the
    same time, but with very different setups and philosophies, in those
    countries that have surpassed us in safety.

    DS
     
    Daniel J. Stern, Sep 3, 2005
    #44
  5. www.scienceservingsociety.com
     
    Daniel J. Stern, Sep 3, 2005
    #45
  6. Rick

    SoCalMike Guest

    or it could have been plastic yellowing. ive successfully polished
    lenses to "like new" condition with a buffing wheel chucked in to a
    drill and plastic polish/jewelers rouge, both bought at harbor freight
     
    SoCalMike, Sep 3, 2005
    #46
  7. Rick

    Jim Chinnis Guest

    Yep. As long as gasoline remains cheap.
     
    Jim Chinnis, Sep 3, 2005
    #47
  8. Rick

    Jim Chinnis Guest

    Maybe if we replace the American drivers, too.
     
    Jim Chinnis, Sep 3, 2005
    #48
  9. Rick

    Jim Chinnis Guest

    This is a nutty measure. Countries where there aren't many cars will do
    great.
     
    Jim Chinnis, Sep 3, 2005
    #49
  10. Rick

    Jim Chinnis Guest

    Yes. Or deaths per person-mile traveled by vehicle.
     
    Jim Chinnis, Sep 3, 2005
    #50
  11. Well, gee, let's see if try number three gets through successfully:

    MERCEDES JUST STARTED USING PLASTIC LENSES A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO! THERE
    ARE NO OLD MERCEDES WITH PLASTIC LENSES! THE ONE THE OP SAW WAS GLASS!
     
    Daniel J. Stern, Sep 3, 2005
    #51
  12. Daniel J. Stern, Sep 3, 2005
    #52
  13. Rick

    mrpc9886 Guest

    The range of headlamp performance is enormous.<<

    I hate to admit to this but...I had a '84 626 with the nice 4
    rectangular sealed halogens and added the foglight kit too (legally
    wired as well- would only work with low beams and they had to be on).

    I discovered that I could put the headlamp stalk switch right in the
    middle and run all 6 lamps at once. Talk about light. Always wondered
    how badly I was hammering the wiring and alternator with that one but
    nothing ever burned or melted.
     
    mrpc9886, Sep 4, 2005
    #53
  14. I have two high-output sealed beams, 55 watts each, and two driving
    lights, which are another 55 each...its great to drive with 'em all on,
    but as you said, i'm worried i'll melt something.
     
    Masospaghetti, Sep 4, 2005
    #54
  15. I've seen those...It wasn't a bad idea to offer a sealed beam that
    accepted standard H4 bulbs, but then they started making them
    plastic...and then the plastic became perminently blue...and then they
    started having those rediculous blue "city lights" that do nothing.
     
    Masospaghetti, Sep 4, 2005
    #55
  16. Yeah, a lot of people figure out how to cleverly hold the beam selector
    switch in the position that lights up both the low and high beam
    filaments. Often, they sooner or later learn why systems that use
    2-filament bulbs are wired up so that only one filament burns at a time.

    Remember, headlamp bulbs are pressurized to 10 atmospheres *cold*. Throw a
    100% thermal overload on 'em and a bulb-grenade is frequently the result.
    This fails the headlamp immediately (hot, sharp shrapnel chews up the lens
    and reflector). Not such a big deal with a sealed beam, but with an
    expensive replaceable-bulb lamp? Not cheap. Then there's the 100%
    electrical overload on the beam selector switch, common/ground portion of
    the circuit, etc.

    DS (and BTW, the only "high output" sealed beams worth messing with are
    the GE Night Hawks)
     
    Daniel J. Stern, Sep 4, 2005
    #56
  17. I've used both the Xtravision lamps and the Brite Lite versions - both
    seem to light up a lot better, with a much wider beam pattern. I figured
    it was because it used 50 watts instead of 35.
     
    Masospaghetti, Sep 4, 2005
    #57
  18. Rick

    Father Guido Guest

    ~We shouldn't have to apply anything, period. I may be wrong, but I
    dont see
    ~other makes of old cars, like Toyota, with this problem, only Ford
    and
    ~Chrysler. Even GM seems to be immune. Why is that? Is it as
    preventable as I
    ~suspected?
    ~Rick

    My '99 Taurus's headlights are like new, but my '99 Camry headlights
    look foggy -- and they were dim to start with. All headlights should
    be standard to provide everyone with reasonable lighting.


    ~
    ~~On Fri, 2 Sep 2005, Bill Putney wrote:
    ~
    ~> I have a set of X-Pels - haven't put them on yet either - but they
    are
    ~> much thinner and pliable - I think an improved product over the
    ~> StonGard. Thinner also of course means less light blockage, both
    ~> initially and as they age.
    ~
    ~Correct on all counts. Applying the XPel is a great deal more hassle
    than
    ~applying the Stongard junk, but worth the extra effort.
    ~
     
    Father Guido, Sep 4, 2005
    #58
  19. But that is how it works here too, didn't you know? Just look at the last
    couple Presidential elections. An elite few decided that we the people
    were going to have a bad president, and either way the election went,
    we got what they wanted.

    My goodness, didn't you read my post on PDX mass transit? Do you think
    that the citizens of the city of Portland were ever, have ever, will ever be
    given the opportunity to vote on wasting the money on mass transit that the
    city wastes? Of course not, an elite few decided that.

    As I stated:

    "If the majority has been propagandized into wanting something that's bad,
    they will get it."

    That is how it works here in the good old US of A. Other countries when
    the elite few decide the people should have something that is bad for them,
    they get it. In the US, when the elite few decide the people should have
    something that is bad for them, they simply propagandize the public into
    wanting it through a media campaign and the results are exactly the same.

    Every single thing I listed as bad in my last post exists because of a large
    corporate/media engine that pushes it. Every last thing from blue bulbs
    to excessive drinking. Do you really think we would have the level of
    problems with DUI in the US if the beer companies were prohibited from
    advertising? I realize you really want to believe that people are
    responsible
    for their own choices but that is only true for an individual, not a mob.
    You and I may have developed enough cognitive control to do our
    own thing despite the advertising, but if the majority of people in the US
    were like that, advertising would not work and no company would bother
    doing it. And frankly the advertisers don't care that people like you and I
    who buck the system might exist anyway, since a lot of what they do is
    behind the scenes control.

    That is why when you walk into 90% of restaurants in the country that
    you are only presented with 5 different choices for soft drinks, and all
    of them exactly the same 5. The distributors that sell to these restaurants
    only carry those 5 because the contracts they have with the soft drink
    companies effectively lock out any alternative choices. So, while I may
    greatly prefer to drink "Ol Bob Miller's Red Sas'parilla"
    http://www.olbobmillers.com/ when I go into a restaurant,
    the major soft drink companies have insured that I can't have that. So, the
    fact that I buck the system is meaningless, I still end up drinking what the
    rest of the lemmings drink.
    It did a long time ago. You really need to read

    "The Space Merchants" by Frederik Pohl and C.M. Kornbluth

    to understand what I'm talking about. Then check the publication date.
    They knew even then how the world operates.

    And I think it's pretty sad that you would accept the flaws here and
    not want to change them. I may agree that our system is better, but I'm
    not stupid enough to think that I have to take it's faults along with
    the good in it.

    What you seem to miss is that the elite few that are so good at
    propagandizing the lemmings in the US to want bad stuff, can also
    propagandize the lemmings into wanting good stuff. That is their
    moral obligation and they are falling down on doing it.

    It is like McDonalds and their salads. MicDicks comes out with
    salads, then a few years later goes through a big "1 dollar" campaign
    where they put most of the items on the menu online at the cost of a dollar
    - except salads - then they say that nobody wants to eat salads
    since the sale of salads is like 2% of that of burgers, that must prove
    that salads aren't worth selling. The real truth is obvious to anyone -
    MicDicks doesen't want to sell salads, and only did it to take
    the wind out of the sales of national efforts to require minimum
    nutrition standards for fast food joints. Then once they successfully
    killed that effort, they repackaged the salads they do sell into smaller
    and more unappetizing packaging. After another decade they will
    have a huge body of 'proof' that nobody wants salads and they can
    just drop the menu item, and if anyone tries to suggest a national
    nutrition standard again, they just trot out the 20 years of slow sales
    "proving" that nobody wants it.

    Ted
     
    Ted Mittelstaedt, Sep 4, 2005
    #59
  20. Both of those have a wider beam pattern, but with a much, much lower peak
    intensity (dimmer hot spot, shorter seeing distance).
    Remember, wattage is power input -- not light output.
     
    Daniel J. Stern, Sep 4, 2005
    #60
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