And you thought Chryslers were bad?

[Art]

For old times sake I visited the Subaru group. Used to own a 95 Legacy.
Boy are they having problems. Apparently headgaskets blowing all over the
place and big bucks to fix because of the engine configuration under the
hood.

 

[James C. Reeves]

| For old times sake I visited the Subaru group. Used to own a 95 Legacy.
| Boy are they having problems. Apparently headgaskets blowing all over the
| place and big bucks to fix because of the engine configuration under the
| hood.
|
|

GM is having big gasket problems too...what's going on with gaskets these days?

 

[Steve]

| For old times sake I visited the Subaru group. Used to own a 95 Legacy.
| Boy are they having problems. Apparently headgaskets blowing all over the
| place and big bucks to fix because of the engine configuration under the
| hood.
|
|

GM is having big gasket problems too...what's going on with gaskets these days?

A much larger percentage of engines are now all aluminum, and the new
non-silicate OAT coolants (like DexCool) are crap and eat gaskets.

 

[N.Cass]

For old times sake I visited the Subaru group. Used to own a 95 Legacy.
Boy are they having problems. Apparently headgaskets blowing all over the
place and big bucks to fix because of the engine configuration under the
hood.

I work for an AC Delco parts store, and there is a certain intake
manifold for GM's that we can't keep in stock. I looked a little closer
at it and the darn thing is made of plastic! Talk about cuttin corners
on building engines! I bet we sell about 5 of those per week. And they
aren't cheap at about $160 a pop.

 

[Art]

I believe plastic there is quite common now.

I work for an AC Delco parts store, and there is a certain intake
manifold for GM's that we can't keep in stock. I looked a little closer
at it and the darn thing is made of plastic! Talk about cuttin corners
on building engines! I bet we sell about 5 of those per week. And they
aren't cheap at about $160 a pop.

 

[robs440]

horizontal oposed 6 cyl. subarus? they have always been that bway. cam
boxes leak bad.

2500 or more for an engine

 

[Joseph Oberlander]

I work for an AC Delco parts store, and there is a certain intake
manifold for GM's that we can't keep in stock. I looked a little closer
at it and the darn thing is made of plastic! Talk about cuttin corners
on building engines! I bet we sell about 5 of those per week. And they
aren't cheap at about $160 a pop.

????

$160 each for a $1 piece of plastic? Wow.

 

[Dori A Schmetterling]

Nothing wrong with plastic if it is proper engineering plastic. What is the
basis of your thinking it's only a dollar?

Furthermore, I would have thought you know that the material cost of an item
may only be a small part of the selling price, which may bear large
development costs, marketing, distribution, stockholding etc before you get
to profit.

DAS

 

[Bill Putney]

Nothing wrong with plastic if it is proper engineering plastic. What is the
basis of your thinking it's only a dollar?

Furthermore, I would have thought you know that the material cost of an item
may only be a small part of the selling price, which may bear large
development costs, marketing, distribution, stockholding etc before you get
to profit.

DAS

For that application, glass filled PPS (Poly Phenylene Sulfide - I think
that's right - I know the initials are right, Phillips Ryton™, also a
Hoescht-Celenese version) is about the only plastic that should be used
(and probably was). Raw PPS molding material is about $4 to $5/pound
(which is expensive as plastics go in general), but as you point out,
the material cost isn't the only thing that determines the selling
price.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

[Bill 2]

For old times sake I visited the Subaru group. Used to own a 95 Legacy.
Boy are they having problems. Apparently headgaskets blowing all over the
place and big bucks to fix because of the engine configuration under the
hood.

Does not compute! I was told that Japanese cars were always better. Ahhh!!!!
*explodes*

Is it kind of like those crappy engines Mitsubishi made for Chrysler?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the only good Jap brands for
reliability (if there truly is a difference) is Toyota and somewhat Honda.

 

[robs440]

i was thinking yamaha and sony ...lol

Does not compute! I was told that Japanese cars were always better. Ahhh!!!!
*explodes*

Is it kind of like those crappy engines Mitsubishi made for Chrysler?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the only good Jap brands for
reliability (if there truly is a difference) is Toyota and somewhat Honda.

 

[Mike Hall]

????

$160 each for a $1 piece of plastic? Wow.

It is not the same kind of plastic as used to manufacture your wife's
hairbrush whhich would also have cost more than $1..

 

[Steve]

I work for an AC Delco parts store, and there is a certain intake
manifold for GM's that we can't keep in stock. I looked a little closer
at it and the darn thing is made of plastic! Talk about cuttin corners
on building engines! I bet we sell about 5 of those per week. And they
aren't cheap at about $160 a pop.

Chrysler uses plastic intakes too. So does most everyone now... modern
cars are just not meant for the long haul.

But GM seems to have shot themselves in the foot by running the EGR tube
through the plastic intake manifold- it gets hot and warps the plastic,
dumping DexCool into the oil, which then turns to sludge, seizes the cam
bearings (particularly on the Chevy 3.4) and snaps the (hollow) camshaft
in two. Instant scrap metal (and plastic :-/)

 

[Joseph Oberlander]

For that application, glass filled PPS (Poly Phenylene Sulfide - I think
that's right - I know the initials are right, Phillips Ryton™, also a
Hoescht-Celenese version) is about the only plastic that should be used
(and probably was). Raw PPS molding material is about $4 to $5/pound
(which is expensive as plastics go in general), but as you point out,
the material cost isn't the only thing that determines the selling
price.

Sorry - my bad - $5. Even if it was $20, $160 is horrendous markup
for a part that *fails to to the job properly*.

 

[Joseph Oberlander]

Does not compute! I was told that Japanese cars were always better. Ahhh!!!!
*explodes*

Is it kind of like those crappy engines Mitsubishi made for Chrysler?

Actually, 90% of the problems with those engines was the exhaust
manifold. That's easy to fix compared to pulling the whole thing
apart for a new set of gaskets.

 

[Bill Putney]

Sorry - my bad - $5. Even if it was $20, $160 is horrendous markup
for a part that *fails to to the job properly*.

I wasn't criticizing you - just stating facts. Yeah it is a shame that
we, as the end user, have to end up paying exhorbitant prices for things
that, though out of warranty, are obviously poor design. In general,
I'd say the main problem is that there are so many conflicting
constraints and pressures on designs due to space, weight, cost, etc. as
well as the need to explore new, uproven territory to stay competitive,
that the ultimate performance and longevity of a given part or system
can't really be known until it's put into the field.

It would be nice, though, if the manufacturers would take more of that
risk and uncertainty themselves (i.e., when it is obvious that there is
a problem with a given design, that they cover the cost rather than go
strictly by the warranty - just look at all the TSB's that discuss known
chronic issues - design screw ups basically, but the cost of remedying
is only within the scope of the warranty).

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

[ottertailfamily]

Geez, I had my intake manifold gaskets replaced at a gm dealer on my 5.7 v8
and ALL the parts and coolant and oil they used were less than $100. The
gaskets themselves show up on the invoice at under $38!
tad

 

[Steve]

Geez, I had my intake manifold gaskets replaced at a gm dealer on my 5.7 v8
and ALL the parts and coolant and oil they used were less than $100. The
gaskets themselves show up on the invoice at under $38!
tad

That's pretty expensive for a plain old Chevy 350. You ought to be able
to get that intake gasket for under $20 for that engine. But try pricing
out the same job on a late-model Chevy 3400 or Buick 3800 if you want to
see expensive...

 

[Dave Gower]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the only good Jap brands for
reliability (if there truly is a difference) is Toyota and somewhat Honda.

I think the Japanese reputation for durability is mostly hype. Owners of
imports in general, and cars with a quality image like Toyota in particular,
tend by nature to be more careful about service. Owners of domestic brands
tend to be more "drive it and forget it". This more than anything explains
the difference. I look in my local on-line auto trader and its impressive to
see how many extremely high-mileage K-cars, Escorts, Malibus, Tempos,
Cavaliers and other so-called "cheap" domestic cars are offered for sale,
with claims of "runs great".

I bought a 1984 Plymouth Horizon in 1983, supposed to be the ultimate cheapo
junk car. It ran like gangbusters for almost a decade of serious
road-warrior duty, commuting to work through Canadian winters, lasted a
quarter of a million kilometres, never needed to be towed, cost very little
for maintenance or repairs. How could you get better than that?

 

[Art]

In 83 I had 2 4WD Toyota Tercels Wagons. I bet they are still around.
Although I got rid of mine in 91, tons are still on the road. So I suspect
they were more reliable then your Horizon. Haven't seen one in years around
my area.