ABS problem - 1991 Plymouth Grand Voyager 3.3 L

[valin]

I'm not sure yet the extent of my ABS problem. The ABS panel light has been
on for months with not apparent affects to the braking. I lost my brakes
recently and noticed I had lost a lot of brake fluid. I topped the system
off and bled the brakes once. Voila! I had my brakes back. I suspected by
rear wheel cylinders were leaking. Until I replaced them this past weekend,
I just kept topping off the brake fluid every couple of days or so (until I
could get the money to do the rear brakes). I didn't top them off the last
two weeks and I lost them again. Even after I bled the system 4 times, I
still had a spongy brake pedal. After driving it about a mile, you got some
of the brake power back. By the way, up to now when I bled the system, I
just did the quicky bleed with two people - I just bled the fluid straight
out the bleeder valve onto the driveway 7 or 8 times.

After I replaced everything except the drums on the rear brakes, I bled the
brakes using a clear hose and a clear bottle with some brake fluid in it.
(Note: the wheel cylinders were definitely leaking big time) The best I
could tell, I got all the air out of the system. The first couple of times
on each wheel, the brake fluid was clear with bubbles, then it got light
rusty looking, then clear again (you had to look at the level in the bottle
changing to finally or you'd think nothing was coming out of the bleeder
valve). Also, I had trouble getting the back right metal brake line
unscrewed out of the back of the wheel cylinder. It wasn't cross threaded;
it just squeaked a lot getting it off. When I was bleeding this wheel, I
noticed I had a tiny leak coming from this fitting. I'm replacing that
metal line this coming weekend.

Even after bleeding the system twice since I did the rear brakes, I still
don't have the brakes back to normal. They are spongy for the first half
mile (not quite as bad as before though), then I get them back better than
before, but only about 80%. My ABS and my brake panel lights are both on.
I've read the site faq and gone to www.mopar.com/fix/ABS and read it also.
This site stated the following: -------------------

"The central problem of the ABS-10 system is a leak in the seals of the
master cylinder piston. When this leak occurs, reserve pressure continuously
bleeds off; this causes the pump to run more as time goes on. Eventually,
the pump runs continuously until it burns out. For example, in one person's
vehicle, the pump runs for over 5 seconds every 30, whether the person is
using the brakes or not. This appears to be the only visible symptom, so
watch for it.

Unless you notice that the pump is running every time you press the brakes,
there may be no warning of failure - until the pump fails. Then, after a
couple of normal brakings, the brake light on the instrument panel will
activate and the power assist will disappear. The brakes will still work,
but the power assist will be gone. Without the power assistance, it may seem
as though you have lost the brakes. To a large degree, of course, you have
unless you have a strong leg and foot. On the brighter side, you are not
much worse off than you would have been in a large car with no power brakes,
such as the Webmaster's 1973 Dart Swinger."

--------------------------------

I'm not sure how to tell if the pump is running or not. I never lost my
power assist the months and months the ABS panel light was on. But maybe I
have now; I'm not sure though. Should this be the next place I look (at
the master cylinder) and if so, what am I getting into replacing the master
cylinder myself. It took me all day to do the rear brakes (I'd done the
front plenty of times but never the rear. It wouldn't take me that long now
that I've done them once.) Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to be sure I was detailed enough.

Skip
Richmond, VA

 

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Something about this post isn't right. Is this by any chance an old post?

The link www.mopar.com/fix/ABS does not exist and from the looks of
the Mopar site, has not existed for a long time.

Also the poster is apparently unaware that there's a lifetime factory recall
on the ABS-10 systems, instead of futzing with it, take it to the dealership
and let them fix it for free.

It almost looks like what people were asking 3 years ago. Maybe
someone's old news client got fixed?

Ted

PS Just in case this is a real post, to the poster: you will never get rid
of a
spongy brake feel if there's any leaks in the hydraulic system Fix the back
right metal brakeline fitting first.

 

[valin]

You're right about the link and yep, it's a real post. I don't know where I
got "mopar" from. The correct link is www.allpar.com/fix/ABS (as shown in
this site's faq). I've not had reason to ever read any ABS posts before or
I probably wouldn't have the questions I had this time about ABS.

I'm fixing the brake line this Saturday. As for the lifetime factory
recall on the ABS-10, I called the local dealer this morning. He told me if
I give him my vin # and mileage, he'll tell me what I need to know. He said
my ABS problem could be as simple as a bad wheel speed sensor. He also said
in my case the ABS problem wouldn't cause me to loose my brakes. I just
wouldn't have effective AB. Thus, I belief as you suggested and I plan
aready to do this weekend, once I replace the leaking brake line and
properly bleed the system, I should get my brakes back to normal.

Thank you.