99 Intrepid front end noise

[Greg Houston]

Very recently I've noticed a noise coming from my front end. I've only noticed it at very slow speeds when turning the steering wheel fairly rapidly, such as maneuvering to park. There is a noticeable muffled clunk noise from the passenger side front when the car's direction is being changed. It sounds like a load shifting. It's most noticeable when steering from one direction (left or right) to the other.

I'm pretty sure there is also a similar noise coming from the rear of the car but can't be sure about that one. It sounds like something is shifting as well (Hopefully it's not the fuel tank shifting on its bracket).

Any guesses to what this is? I have some ideas but am not sure and would like to learn more information before going for service. I still have almost 6 months left on my "Added Care" Chrysler service contract so I want to make them count. Just have to find a decent dealer that can diagnose and fix things properly

 

[Arthur (3)]

Just to let you know, Greg, that my 99 Intrepid seems to be developing the same 'clunk' in the front end when I turn the wheel when parking, but I have to listen for it. I'm counting on it to become much worse in the future. Wish I had the same service contract as you. Let me know how you fare.

Arthur

 

[Steve (2)]

My 300M which is pretty close to the same had a noise that sounded like a cluck, I could actually feel it a little through the steering wheel and the floor, that was caused by the K-Frame being loose. I could often make it happen while parked by turning the wheel all the way to one side and back to the other. It was frustrating. I had to drive the car with this noise for 6 months because every time I took it in they could not hear the noise.

Steve

 

[Bill Putney]

It may also be the control arm to frame bushing. I've seen several posts on DI.net lately where they had gone bad.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

 

[Steve (archive)]

Very recently I've noticed a noise coming from my front end. I've only noticed it at very slow speeds when turning the steering wheel fairly rapidly, such as maneuvering to park. There is a noticeable muffled clunk noise from the passenger side front when the car's direction is being changed. It sounds like a load shifting. It's most noticeable when steering from one direction (left or right) to the other.

I'm pretty sure there is also a similar noise coming from the rear of the car but can't be sure about that one. It sounds like something is shifting as well (Hopefully it's not the fuel tank shifting on its bracket).

Any guesses to what this is? I have some ideas but am not sure and would like to learn more information before going for service. I still have almost 6 months left on my "Added Care" Chrysler service contract so I want to make them count. Just have to find a decent dealer that can diagnose and fix things properly

Guess #1- stabilizer rod end-links (common problem, cheap, easy to DIY) Guess #2- steering rack-to-body bushings Guess #3- steering tie-rod-to-rack bushings

 

[Greg Houston]

Very recently I've noticed a noise coming from my front end. I've only noticed it at very slow speeds when turning the steering wheel fairly rapidly, such as maneuvering to park. There is a noticeable muffled clunk noise from the passenger side front when the car's direction is being changed. It sounds like a load shifting. It's most noticeable when steering from one direction (left or right) to the other.

I'm pretty sure there is also a similar noise coming from the rear of the car but can't be sure about that one. It sounds like something is shifting as well (Hopefully it's not the fuel tank shifting on its bracket).

Any guesses to what this is? I have some ideas but am not sure and would like to learn more information before going for service. I still have almost 6 months left on my "Added Care" Chrysler service contract so I want to make them count. Just have to find a decent dealer that can diagnose and fix things properly

Thanks everyone for the replies! I'm rather suspension/steering illiterate, so I'm going to try to study up on the responses.

 

[Bill Putney]

Guess #1- stabilizer rod end-links (common problem, cheap, easy to DIY) Guess #2- steering rack-to-body bushings Guess #3- steering tie-rod-to-rack bushings

Good list.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

 

[Greg Houston]

Very recently I've noticed a noise coming from my front end. I've only noticed it at very slow speeds when turning the steering wheel fairly rapidly, such as maneuvering to park. There is a noticeable muffled clunk noise from the passenger side front when the car's direction is being changed. It sounds like a load shifting. It's most noticeable when steering from one direction (left or right) to the other.

I'm pretty sure there is also a similar noise coming from the rear of the car but can't be sure about that one. It sounds like something is shifting as well (Hopefully it's not the fuel tank shifting on its bracket).

FOLLOW UP:

My dealer was able to correct the front end problem. So here's what happened.

1.) The upper strut mount and bearing assembly was replaced (under my DC service contract).

2.) The dealer had mentioned that the stabilizer bar link on the front right side would need to be done too, so I authorized that repair which he estimated at about $125. (The front stabilizer bar items are not covered under my DC "Added Care" service contract although I noticed the rear would have been (haha) .) He gave me the option of doing both sides but recommended not doing the left side since there isn't a lot of labor saved by doing both of these. As I'm writing this I don't see anything about stabilizer bars or stabilizer bar links on the invoice.... Did they not do it or not write it up? Interesting.

3.) I also had noted that there was a noise (like a bicycle w/ a bad bearing makes) coming from the car that is audible from about 15 mph to about 30-35 mph (when wind/road noise overpowered it). Initially they didn't hear it but after the other stuff was fixed, the tech did hear it. So they replaced the wheel bearing assembly. The part number for this was 45934500-AA "Hub Brake 5005006"

In addition I had them replace the transmission fluid.... Parts # 4796730-AB "FILTR PKG 2117002" $16.15 5010884-AA "SEALER RT 1081003" $5.61 seals trans. pan? 5013458-AA "FLUID TRA 1081018" $17.67 1 gal ATF+4? 5013457-AA "OIL AUTOM 1081018 $4.10 1 qt ATF+4?

I assume the last two are gal/qt respectively for the ATF+4 9602 fluid, but it's curious the truncated descriptions are so different. The total cost was about $90 as I had a coupon for the transmission fluid change. They did say that flushing the fluid is not good for the transmission and the service manual does not include flushing for the transmission fluid change.

As well as the differential fluid....$49.95
No part numbers listed this time, the last time they did this service it was on the invoice. Since I've been noticing an oily substance under the car that I later identified as differential fluid leaking out of the vent, I requested that they do a TSB repair ( that fixes this. 5011589AA - "VENT TRAN 2110023" $25.84 and $25 for the labor. I thought my service contract should cover this but oh well.

I also requested that they apply the latest transmission software update for the TCM. They found the TSB 18-14-00 (I also have access to all the TSBs which is helpful to me) and did this.

UH OH...I just checked and it was actually TSB 18-17-00 (Sept 22 00) "kickdown shift quality improvements" that I expected them to do . TSB 18-14-00 (Aug 25 00) "4-3 harsh downshift" affects only MY 2000 LH vehicles, my Intrepid is a '99. So does this make a difference--would their computer have automatically downloaded the latest version of the software anyway, so that the updates mentioned in TSB 18-17-00 are now installed? The TSB itself doesn't seem to mention any version information, just says to download latest software to car and ensure dealer's MDS2 and DRBIII are updated to the lastest software.

I'm curious how labor costs are tabulated....They charged 1/2 hr labor and a few cents for the label sticker. The SM mentinoned that they charged less than the normal time since I had everything else done too. I'm curious how about that since the TSB lists 0.5 Hrs for the job. Is that 0.5 Hrs for warranty reimbursement time or time they would charge the customer? I understand that dealers typically charge customers more time than the factory would pay for the same job if it was under warranty. Factories apparently do this since they are required under law to pay the same labor rate per hour that customers would pay...

So in summary everything looks great and the steering noise is completely gone, although I am curious now about the stabilizer link item... All in all they had the car 2+ days and my DC service contract paid for a rental. I'll have to check the other one, but haven't driven the car much since the service to see if it's better. Just thought I would let everyone know how it turned out.

 

[Bill Putney]

FOLLOW UP:

My dealer was able to correct the front end problem. So here's what happened.

1.) The upper strut mount and bearing assembly was replaced (under my DC service contract).

2.) The dealer had mentioned that the stabilizer bar link on the front right side would need to be done too, so I authorized that repair which he estimated at about $125. (The front stabilizer bar items are not covered under my DC "Added Care" service contract although I noticed the rear would have been (haha) .) He gave me the option of doing both sides but recommended not doing the left side since there isn't a lot of labor saved by doing both of these. As I'm writing this I don't see anything about stabilizer bars or stabilizer bar links on the invoice.... Did they not do it or not write it up? Interesting.

I question that that was bad. While it wouldn't have been a surprise for it to be bad on a '99 (not sure how many miles you have on it), if it was bad, you should have been complaining of a klunking noise when hitting irregularities (small pot holes, speed bumps) in the road, but you didn't. $125 is on the upper end of reasonable for that part and labor - but maybe they're going by a dealer inflated part price and an inflated book rate. I just know how much the part costs and how long it takes me to replace one in my driveway.

3.) I also had noted that there was a noise (like a bicycle w/ a bad bearing makes) coming from the car that is audible from about 15 mph to about 30-35 mph (when wind/road noise overpowered it). Initially they didn't hear it but after the other stuff was fixed, the tech did hear it. So they replaced the wheel bearing assembly. The part number for this was 45934500-AA "Hub Brake 5005006"

In addition I had them replace the transmission fluid.... Parts # 4796730-AB "FILTR PKG 2117002" $16.15 5010884-AA "SEALER RT 1081003" $5.61 seals trans. pan? 5013458-AA "FLUID TRA 1081018" $17.67 1 gal ATF+4? 5013457-AA "OIL AUTOM 1081018 $4.10 1 qt ATF+4?

I assume the last two are gal/qt respectively for the ATF+4 9602 fluid, but it's curious the truncated descriptions are so different. The total cost was about $90 as I had a coupon for the transmission fluid change. They did say that flushing the fluid is not good for the transmission and the service manual does not include flushing for the transmission fluid change.

While the cost is reasonable for what they did, it depends on what they mean by flushing when they say (1) Flushing is not good for the tranny, and (2) The service manual doesn't include flushing. Do they mean with a pressure pumping machine, or do they simply mean that getting all the old fluid out and putting new fluid in as opposed to only replacing what you have to (4 to 5 qts.) to drop the pan for a filter change is bad?

In either case, they're on thin ice. I'm looking at the '99 FSM right now - Schedule B - 48,000 and 96,000 miles: "Change the automatic transaxle fluid and filter". I guess it's a game of semantics for them to argue that changing 4 qts. in a 10 qt. system is considered a "change of fluid". In the procedures section, they describe the drop-pan-and-add-four-qts. method, and they have a method under a heading "ALTERNATIVE MAINTENANCE METHODS, TRANSAXLE FLUID EXCHANGER METHOD". So it's a word game, and they're doing what's in their best interests. Maybe they truly believe it's harmful to run a high pressure machine on it, and/or maybe they just don't own one.

If someone objects to pressure flushing then a complete fluid exchange can be had by using the tranny's own pump (engine running) and letting it pump it out of the cooler return line. But that would be time and fluid over and above what it takes to minimally do a filter change.

As well as the differential fluid....$49.95
No part numbers listed this time, the last time they did this service it was on the invoice. Since I've been noticing an oily substance under the car that I later identified as differential fluid leaking out of the vent, I requested that they do a TSB repair ( that fixes this. 5011589AA - "VENT TRAN 2110023" $25.84 and $25 for the labor. I thought my service contract should cover this but oh well.

What does the contract say that would exclude it?

I also requested that they apply the latest transmission software update for the TCM. They found the TSB 18-14-00 (I also have access to all the TSBs which is helpful to me) and did this.

UH OH...I just checked and it was actually TSB 18-17-00 (Sept 22 00) "kickdown shift quality improvements" that I expected them to do . TSB 18-14-00 (Aug 25 00) "4-3 harsh downshift" affects only MY 2000 LH vehicles, my Intrepid is a '99. So does this make a difference--would their computer have automatically downloaded the latest version of the software anyway, so that the updates mentioned in TSB 18-17-00 are now installed? The TSB itself doesn't seem to mention any version information, just says to download latest software to car and ensure dealer's MDS2 and DRBIII are updated to the lastest software.

The TSB also says that "BY LAW" they had to attach two labels to your vehicle documenting the change. Did they attach those labels properly filled out? I have a feeling that during the update process their scan tool phones home and will see the latest firmware available regardless of which TSB they are trying to (possibly incorrectly) apply.

Perhaps a helpful dealer tech could post here and enlighten you on the procedure and if their trying to apply the wrong TSB could mean that the latest correct firmware was not installed. I suspect that they've made it idiot proof.

I also wonder if the part numbers that they are required by law to fill out and put on your car are encoded with the firmware revision and not just a part number for the label itself. Again - can any techs answer that?

Was your car exhibiting symptoms, or were you just wanting to get it up to the latest firmware?

I'm curious how labor costs are tabulated....They charged 1/2 hr labor and a few cents for the label sticker. The SM mentinoned that they charged less than the normal time since I had everything else done too. I'm curious how about that since the TSB lists 0.5 Hrs for the job. Is that 0.5 Hrs for warranty reimbursement time or time they would charge the customer? I understand that dealers typically charge customers more time than the factory would pay for the same job if it was under warranty. Factories apparently do this since they are required under law to pay the same labor rate per hour that customers would pay...

So in summary everything looks great and the steering noise is completely gone, although I am curious now about the stabilizer link item...

Should be a simple matter of looking at the end link to see if it's new or old.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

 

[Greg Houston]

I question that that was bad. While it wouldn't have been a surprise for it to be bad on a '99 (not sure how many miles you have on it), if it was bad, you should have been complaining of a klunking noise when hitting irregularities (small pot holes, speed bumps) in the road, but you didn't. $125 is on the upper end of reasonable for that part and labor - but maybe they're going by a dealer inflated part price and an inflated book rate. I just know how much the part costs and how long it takes me to replace one in my driveway.

I think the dealer shop rate is $85. Sounds high but is very much in line with other dealers in my area. Independent mechanics are $65 and up. Yeah I did not notice any irregular clunks, although when I can I do try not to hit every pot hole dead on What should I look for to see if they changed this part?

While the cost is reasonable for what they did, it depends on what they mean by flushing when they say (1) Flushing is not good for the tranny, and (2) The service manual doesn't include flushing.

Do they mean with
a pressure pumping machine, or do they simply mean that getting all the old fluid out and putting new fluid in as opposed to only replacing what you have to (4 to 5 qts.) to drop the pan for a filter change is bad?

Oops, a service manager did say flushing is not good (he did say Jiffy Lube style flushing) but the service manual comment was my take. I do recall that there are several methods listed in the book but don't recall flushing, just dipstick extraction method and dropping the pan method. I don't care for that particular SM and he is not "assigned" to me but was the one working when I took the car in. From that point on though all contact was through the dealer's service manager who is pretty good. I didn't think to ask him about the transmission flushing though, there was a lot else going on with my car...

In either case, they're on thin ice. I'm looking at the '99 FSM right now - Schedule B - 48,000 and 96,000 miles: "Change the automatic transaxle fluid and filter". I guess it's a game of semantics for them to argue that changing 4 qts. in a 10 qt. system is considered a "change of fluid". In the procedures section, they describe the drop-pan-and-add-four-qts. method, and they have a method under a heading "ALTERNATIVE MAINTENANCE METHODS, TRANSAXLE FLUID EXCHANGER METHOD". So it's a word game, and they're doing what's in their best interests. Maybe they truly believe it's harmful to run a high pressure machine on it, and/or maybe they just don't own one.

If someone objects to pressure flushing then a complete fluid exchange can be had by using the tranny's own pump (engine running) and letting it pump it out of the cooler return line. But that would be time and fluid over and above what it takes to minimally do a filter change.

My car (only) at 48,000 miles so I wanted to have this service done and conveniently I happened to have a coupon for $84.95+. It was the second time I had the differential fluid changed. Maybe I should have my next transmission fluid service done sooner since some fluid might still be old.

What does the contract say that would exclude it?

I have the "Added Care" contract and it doesn't seem to include it. He did say that Chrysler matches every part number they install with the contract in the computer and I have no reason to doubt this. The contract does say "Transaxle Case and all Internal Parts; ... Differential Cover; ... but apparently not the fluid vent.

My contract is similar to this one: http://www.jasperjeep.com/images/addedcare.pdf

I wish I had known about this item (what was leaking out and that there was a TSB for it) before the factory warranty ran out, but oh well it's not a huge deal.

The TSB also says that "BY LAW" they had to attach two labels to your vehicle documenting the change. Did they attach those labels properly filled out? I have a feeling that during the update process their scan tool phones home and will see the latest firmware available regardless of which TSB they are trying to (possibly incorrectly) apply.

Yes I'll be checking on that if it ever stops raining

Perhaps a helpful dealer tech could post here and enlighten you on the procedure and if their trying to apply the wrong TSB could mean that the latest correct firmware was not installed. I suspect that they've made it idiot proof.

I also wonder if the part numbers that they are required by law to fill out and put on your car are encoded with the firmware revision and not just a part number for the label itself. Again - can any techs answer that?

Was your car exhibiting symptoms, or were you just wanting to get it up to the latest firmware?

Sometimes when downshifting I could get a little clunk sensation from the transmission if I started to feather the gas and accellerate again. That might be completely normal for any transmission but I noticed there was a TSB for an update and thought it would be a reasonable thing to do.

Should be a simple matter of looking at the end link to see if it's new or old.

I also noticed from dodgeintrepid.net and others that the steering rack, radiator fans, and a/c evaporator are (expensive) weak items for the car. Unfortunately no problems yet and I doubt there will be until just after the contract expires this winter... Thanks for all the advice!

 

[Bill Putney]

Bill Putney wrote:

I think the dealer shop rate is $85. Sounds high but is very much in line with other dealers in my area. Independent mechanics are $65 and up. Yeah I did not notice any irregular clunks, although when I can I do try not to hit every pot hole dead on What should I look for to see if they changed this part?

I'm just thinking that there should be some very obvious visible differences in appearance of an end link that has been on the car for over 6 years vs. a shiny new part. To look at the right side one, turn your wheels to the left, and look behind the right strut for the long spindly part that is oriented vertically (upper end attached to strut, lower end attached to end of sway bar).

Oops, a service manager did say flushing is not good (he did say Jiffy Lube style flushing) but the service manual comment was my take. I do recall that there are several methods listed in the book but don't recall flushing, just dipstick extraction method and dropping the pan method...

In my '99 FSM, it's described right after the 4-qt.-pan-drop method and just before the suck-it-out-the-dipstick-tube method.

My car (only) at 48,000 miles so I wanted to have this service done and conveniently I happened to have a coupon for $84.95+. It was the second time I had the differential fluid changed. Maybe I should have my next transmission fluid service done sooner since some fluid might still be old.

That is a valid philosophy. Dropping the pan and replacing the fluid more often is equivalent to a complete changeout at longer intervals. If one were to do that, it would behoove one to use the re-useable metal-silicone sandwich gasket that you can get thru the dealer - no pan stuck to the tranny case, and no silicone sealer to scrape off. The gasket costs around $30 IIRC, so they'd want to charge you for that even though it would save them lots of time on future pan drops - yet they'd still charge you the same labor for subsequent pan drops. So since they want to make you pay for making their life easier, let them have to mess with the silicone.

...Thanks for all the advice!

You're welcome!

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

 

[Greg Houston]

The TSB also says that "BY LAW" they had to attach two labels to your vehicle documenting the change. Did they attach those labels properly filled out? I have a feeling that during the update process their scan tool phones home and will see the latest firmware available regardless of which TSB they are trying to (possibly incorrectly) apply.

Perhaps a helpful dealer tech could post here and enlighten you on the procedure and if their trying to apply the wrong TSB could mean that the latest correct firmware was not installed. I suspect that they've made it idiot proof.

I checked under the hood and sure enough there was a sticker pasted on the side of one of the computers just in front of the Fuse Center/PCM stack. The sticker says "Authorized Software Update." The TSB also says that there is an "Authorized Modification" label but I didn't find one.

There wasn't an area big enough for the sticker so it probably would have soon fallen off because it wasn't on a firm surface. No "clear plastic overlay." So I bought the sticker inside for posterity.

It has a part number, dealer code, and date, all handwritten. It also says Chrysler Corporation so the sticker is probably older than my car

The part number written on the authorized s/w update label is 4606517AF. Any ideas what this is for? A worldparts.com search turned up nothing. That last digit might even be an eight, it's hard to say, although usually the last two characters seem to be letters (versions?) with Chrysler parts numbers.

The "Authorized Modification" label should have been pasted near the Vehicle Emission Control Information label but I didn't see it. I assume it is used for the software version. I paid for that label too it on my invoice so maybe I just missed it.

 

[Bill Putney]

I checked under the hood and sure enough there was a sticker pasted on the side of one of the computers just in front of the Fuse Center/PCM stack. The sticker says "Authorized Software Update." The TSB also says that there is an "Authorized Modification" label but I didn't find one.

On mine, they put the second sticker on the underside of the hood. With the hood open, and standing in position to see the one sticker that you are seeing on yours, if I look up at the hood, there it is - perhaps that's where yours is too?

There wasn't an area big enough for the sticker so it probably would have soon fallen off because it wasn't on a firm surface. No "clear plastic overlay." So I bought the sticker inside for posterity.

It has a part number, dealer code, and date, all handwritten. It also says Chrysler Corporation so the sticker is probably older than my car

The part number written on the authorized s/w update label is 4606517AF.

That's the exact number written on mine - except the last letter on mine is an E - so your's must be one revision later than mine - that's a good sign - probably means you have the latest. Incidentally, mine is dated September of '02 (the date the reflash was done).

...Any
ideas what this is for? A worldparts.com search turned up nothing. That last digit might even be an eight, it's hard to say, although usually the last two characters seem to be letters (versions?) with Chrysler parts numbers.

Yeah - it would be a letter.

The "Authorized Modification" label should have been pasted near the Vehicle Emission Control Information label but I didn't see it. I assume it is used for the software version. I paid for that label too it on my invoice so maybe I just missed it.

Again - look up - on the underside of the hood.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

 

[Greg Houston]

On mine, they put the second sticker on the underside of the hood. With the hood open, and standing in position to see the one sticker that you are seeing on yours, if I look up at the hood, there it is - perhaps that's where yours is too?

I checked and I didn't see an Authorized Modification label anywhere that I can find, certainly not near the VECI. Funny how though they did bother to charge me $0.90 (!)
for it.

That's the exact number written on mine - except the last letter on mine is an E - so your's must be one revision later than mine - that's a good sign - probably means you have the latest. Incidentally, mine is dated September of '02 (the date the reflash was done).

Yeah - it would be a letter.

Again - look up - on the underside of the hood.

I feel kinda silly making a fuss about a simple label like this, that but they did charge me for this upgrade and they did even take the time to charge me for the label too. When I see simple crap like that I always wonder what other crap they omitted, so maybe I will ask about it. Meanwhile since I'm now thinking about it, I think I will write to Chrysler customer service regarding why my DC Added Care contract didn't pay for the TCM software fix.