'99 Intrepid - Dealer Stripped Oil Pan Drain threads?

[Bryan]

Intrepid (1999), 3.2L LH engine

This past fall, had my dealer change my oil because I had a coolant (the
new Mopar orange fluid) changed and some other work done at the same
time. I had been doing most of my oil changes myself for the last few
years, nobody has ever changed my oil besides myself or my dealer. One
thing I had learned by reading articles on this group and elsewhere
(even before I bought the car) was that the threads are susceptible to
stripping, since the engine (including oil pan) are aluminum. So I was
always careful not to overtighten the plug. (Hey, I even use a torque
wrench to tighten my wheel lugnuts to the specified torque, to prevent
the chance of disk warping--something I also learned here).

Yesterday I changed my oil at a location with a lift, mechanics, and
tools available, but where I can work myself. When I removed the plug,
I noticed that it wasn't on very tight at all. I continued to work and
everything was all set until it was time to put the plug back in. As
usual, I cleaned the plug with a rag and screwed it in by hand. It
didn't get tight at all with a wrench, the threads were definately
stripped. The threads on the plug were fine, I even had a mechanic
take a look at it, and he confirmed what I already knew: the pan threads
were bad.

Fortunately it could be tightened slightly more than handtight so I was
able to fill it up with oil ( I bought some cheap oil, on the spot,
rather than filling it with Mobil 1, since I know it will have to be
emptied to fix).

Boy, was I annoyed. Since threads don't usually strip themselves, I'm
confident that the dealer stripped them at the last oil change, or the
next day. (At that time, they had overfilled about 1/2-3/4" over the
"Do Not Overfill" line on the dipstick, so I had returned it to them to
correct). I'm also very glad that the stripped plug held since that
last change without coming out. (My oil level has dropped more than
usual though).

This is exactly the reason why I've always steered clear of quickie oil
change places from day one: so goofs like this don't happen.

I called the dealer yesterday afternoon. I told him that it was found
stripped after it was at the dealership last fall for the last change.
The service manager said that he knew that oil pan was susceptible to
stripping. He also said the he thought that Dodge has an improved plug
to reduce the possibility of stripping. At my persistence, he offered
to install an "insert" that should fix the problem. He said he would
not replace the pan.

Question: Will an "insert" fix this problem permanently? Should I get a
new oil pan installed, even if I have to pay for the repair? I'm just
afraid of something coming loose someday, at the worst possible time, in
the worst possible place. The car is out of the standard warranty,
although I do have an "Added Care" Chrysler service contract, and the
pan+gasket IS a covered item. Perhaps I could negotiate a replacement
under the contract with the dealer if it is necessary. Looking at a
part guide for 2002 vehicles, it appears that the same oil pan part
number is used for both 3.5L and 2.7L engines. Unfortunately the 3.2L
wasn't available in 2002, but I would assume it would use the same oil
pan too. Price is just over 100 bucks at
http://www.worldparts.com/mckinneydodge/.

Has anyone else had experience with their oil pan drain threads being
stripped?

Thanks so much!

 

[Geoff]

At my persistence, he offered
to install an "insert" that should fix the problem. He said he would
not replace the pan.

If the insert is a Helicoil, it's an excellent repair. Helicoils are
special devices made to repair stripped threads in various situations,
including some pretty critical ones like spark plug threads. Check the
sales literature out at http://www.emhart.com/products/helicoil.html

He might possibly be talking about a different type of insert--a replacement
oil drain plug that's a rubber stopper that fits into the threaded hole,
tightened via expansion using a nut on a threaded rod. This isn't quite as
good a repair as a helicoil, but it's perfectly adequate. The same basic
design seals the drain hole in the transom of many a small powerboat, which
is a situation just as critical as your oil drain plug!

Question: Will an "insert" fix this problem permanently?

Helicoil: definitely. Rubber stopper: most likely. Sometimes rubber
stoppers wear out, but we're talking years of repeated use and abuse, here.
If you're doing your own oil changes, you should be fine.

Should I get a
new oil pan installed, even if I have to pay for the repair?

Nah. Either repair is a good one, and perfectly adequate. I'd be satisfied
with that, and save the money. By the way, you did quite well for yourself
persuading him to do that for free, I wouldn't complain (much). I wouldn't
go back there for any more work after this, either.

--Geoff

 

[Bryan]

If the insert is a Helicoil, it's an excellent repair. Helicoils are
special devices made to repair stripped threads in various situations,
including some pretty critical ones like spark plug threads. Check the
sales literature out at http://www.emhart.com/products/helicoil.html

He might possibly be talking about a different type of insert--a replacement
oil drain plug that's a rubber stopper that fits into the threaded hole,
tightened via expansion using a nut on a threaded rod. This isn't quite as
good a repair as a helicoil, but it's perfectly adequate. The same basic
design seals the drain hole in the transom of many a small powerboat, which
is a situation just as critical as your oil drain plug!


Helicoil: definitely. Rubber stopper: most likely. Sometimes rubber
stoppers wear out, but we're talking years of repeated use and abuse, here.
If you're doing your own oil changes, you should be fine.

Ok, that's good to know. I will ask dealer next week if they will use a
Helicoil. I would prefer that to a drain plug solution. One thing with drain
plugs though, is that you put them in from the outside, and the water pressure
wants to push them in, not out.

Nah. Either repair is a good one, and perfectly adequate. I'd be satisfied
with that, and save the money. By the way, you did quite well for yourself
persuading him to do that for free, I wouldn't complain (much). I wouldn't
go back there for any more work after this, either.

Thanks for the info, Geoff! Well, I'd hate to see what they might do with my
spark plug threads on this engine! Yikes. Unfortunately all of the
Chrysler/Dodge dealers in my area seem to have similar satisfaction experience
stories. Some very good, others not so much....

 

[Bill Putney]

Intrepid (1999), 3.2L LH engine

This past fall, had my dealer change my oil because I had a coolant (the
new Mopar orange fluid) changed and some other work done at the same
time. I had been doing most of my oil changes myself for the last few
years, nobody has ever changed my oil besides myself or my dealer. One
thing I had learned by reading articles on this group and elsewhere
(even before I bought the car) was that the threads are susceptible to
stripping, since the engine (including oil pan) are aluminum. So I was
always careful not to overtighten the plug. (Hey, I even use a torque
wrench to tighten my wheel lugnuts to the specified torque, to prevent
the chance of disk warping--something I also learned here).

Yesterday I changed my oil at a location with a lift, mechanics, and
tools available, but where I can work myself. When I removed the plug,
I noticed that it wasn't on very tight at all. I continued to work and
everything was all set until it was time to put the plug back in. As
usual, I cleaned the plug with a rag and screwed it in by hand. It
didn't get tight at all with a wrench, the threads were definately
stripped. The threads on the plug were fine, I even had a mechanic
take a look at it, and he confirmed what I already knew: the pan threads
were bad.

Fortunately it could be tightened slightly more than handtight so I was
able to fill it up with oil ( I bought some cheap oil, on the spot,
rather than filling it with Mobil 1, since I know it will have to be
emptied to fix).

Boy, was I annoyed. Since threads don't usually strip themselves, I'm
confident that the dealer stripped them at the last oil change, or the
next day. (At that time, they had overfilled about 1/2-3/4" over the
"Do Not Overfill" line on the dipstick, so I had returned it to them to
correct). I'm also very glad that the stripped plug held since that
last change without coming out. (My oil level has dropped more than
usual though).

This is exactly the reason why I've always steered clear of quickie oil
change places from day one: so goofs like this don't happen.

I called the dealer yesterday afternoon. I told him that it was found
stripped after it was at the dealership last fall for the last change.
The service manager said that he knew that oil pan was susceptible to
stripping. He also said the he thought that Dodge has an improved plug
to reduce the possibility of stripping. At my persistence, he offered
to install an "insert" that should fix the problem. He said he would
not replace the pan.

Question: Will an "insert" fix this problem permanently? Should I get a
new oil pan installed, even if I have to pay for the repair? I'm just
afraid of something coming loose someday, at the worst possible time, in
the worst possible place. The car is out of the standard warranty,
although I do have an "Added Care" Chrysler service contract, and the
pan+gasket IS a covered item. Perhaps I could negotiate a replacement
under the contract with the dealer if it is necessary. Looking at a
part guide for 2002 vehicles, it appears that the same oil pan part
number is used for both 3.5L and 2.7L engines. Unfortunately the 3.2L
wasn't available in 2002, but I would assume it would use the same oil
pan too. Price is just over 100 bucks at
http://www.worldparts.com/mckinneydodge/.

Has anyone else had experience with their oil pan drain threads being
stripped?

Thanks so much!

Perhaps you saw some of my posts on this subject on the 300M ezBoard. I
discovered that the oil drain plug was stripped on my Concorde's 2.7
when I did the first oil change after I bought it with 58k miles on it.

My solution so far has been to use what's called an oversize plug that
you can get at any auto parts store. You want a 14-1.5 O.S. plug - the
"O.S." stands for "oversize" threads - made for this problem. It has
flutes in the threads to cut the threads a little larger when you
install it the first time. The O.S. plug threads work fine - plenty of
new thread cut to allow you to tighten normally (but of course if an
idiot tech puts an impact on it, it will strip out just like the
original factory threads).

One very important thing to think about whether you go the insert route
or the O.S. plug: There will be metal filings generated at
installation. Whoever does the work needs to be aware of that and take
measures to minimize their release into the pan, and to flush the pan
real well to hopefully get out any remaining filings. I suggest
spraying brake cleaner with the straw inserted all the way into the
drain plug hole so that all fluid flow is outward back thru the hole.
Then pour a quart of cheap oil into the oil filler with the plug still
out, and let it drain, then repeat the brake parts cleaner spray. Maybe
they will surprise you and take the pan off to do the helicoil if that's
the route you take. IF they do, I would be tempted to pay for a new pan
(that you buy at a good price, not what they're probably gonna want to
sell it to you for) and ask them to put it on for you with no labor
charge. But my guess is they will not pull the pan to do it, in which
case, again, consider the metal filings issue.

If a dealer was stupid enough to strip the threads in the first place, I
would be very reluctant to trust them to take care about the filings,
i.e., their tech is likely to just cross his fingers and trust the
filter to catch them. They won't mind gambling with your engine -
they've already proven that. Ask yourself this question: How does one
strip threads like that and not realize it (answer: they don't - they
just don't say anything and hope you're too stupid to figure out what
happened). You may have already considered that someone did it
intentionally to retaliate for your bringing it back because they
overfilled it. Intentional or not, I guess it doesn't matter - it's
stripped in any case.

BTW - Mine has always dripped a little oil around the plug. I kept
thinking there was something wrong with the gasket - the O.S. plug
tightens plenty tight - but recently I took a good close look at the
area around the drain hole. It appears there's a hairline crack along
the axis of the hole on the bottom surface of the pan. Probably
happened when whoever it was that stripped mine overtorqued it. You had
better look at yours real closely now so that if it's cracked, you can
address that with the dealer, and not discover it a year from now when
it's too late to have them replace the pan. My next project on my
Concorde will be to replace the pan.

I see you mentioned McKinney Dodge for parts - they stopped their
internet sales several months ago. They must be back in business.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

[Bryan]

Perhaps you saw some of my posts on this subject on the 300M ezBoard. I
discovered that the oil drain plug was stripped on my Concorde's 2.7
when I did the first oil change after I bought it with 58k miles on it.

I didn't see that, but I'll be sure to look for it!

My solution so far has been to use what's called an oversize plug that
you can get at any auto parts store. You want a 14-1.5 O.S. plug - the
"O.S." stands for "oversize" threads - made for this problem. It has
flutes in the threads to cut the threads a little larger when you
install it the first time. The O.S. plug threads work fine - plenty of
new thread cut to allow you to tighten normally (but of course if an
idiot tech puts an impact on it, it will strip out just like the
original factory threads).

Wow, I hope they didn't use an impact wrench. One time I actually watched
them do the oil change. Usually i t's impossible to go near the car in their
garage, they will keep you away from your car at all costs while it's being
worked on. (Insurance regulations make them keep customers out of the garage,
they claim---until they want you to see something) But this time the tech was
doing the work next to an open bay door on the side, and was happy to talk to
me as I watched from outside. He seemed to do everything just fine.

One very important thing to think about whether you go the insert route
or the O.S. plug: There will be metal filings generated at
installation. Whoever does the work needs to be aware of that and take
measures to minimize their release into the pan, and to flush the pan
real well to hopefully get out any remaining filings. I suggest
spraying brake cleaner with the straw inserted all the way into the
drain plug hole so that all fluid flow is outward back thru the hole.
Then pour a quart of cheap oil into the oil filler with the plug still
out, and let it drain, then repeat the brake parts cleaner spray. Maybe
they will surprise you and take the pan off to do the helicoil if that's
the route you take. IF they do, I would be tempted to pay for a new pan
(that you buy at a good price, not what they're probably gonna want to
sell it to you for) and ask them to put it on for you with no labor
charge. But my guess is they will not pull the pan to do it, in which
case, again, consider the metal filings issue.

That's a really good point re: the filings. I will ask them what their
strategy is for removing the filings! At any rate, I will probably be
changing the filter sooner than normal.

If a dealer was stupid enough to strip the threads in the first place, I
would be very reluctant to trust them to take care about the filings,
i.e., their tech is likely to just cross his fingers and trust the
filter to catch them. They won't mind gambling with your engine -
they've already proven that.
Grrr.....

Ask yourself this question: How does one
strip threads like that and not realize it (answer: they don't - they
just don't say anything and hope you're too stupid to figure out what
happened). You may have already considered that someone did it
intentionally to retaliate for your bringing it back because they
overfilled it. Intentional or not, I guess it doesn't matter - it's
stripped in any case.

Unfortunately, I'm at the dealer's mercy here, unless I decide to just buy a
pan have it fixed someplace else, which I might do yet. But the service
manager did seem willing to work with me, so I'll come armed with info and
questions.

The dealer also made a mess of the door panel screws at the bottom of the
door when working on a window last summer. I read here that others had the
same experience, so it's probably more of a design issue than dealer in this
case, but I will tell them about it too. The door was fine in the summer
after they put it back together, but in the cold weather here in the
northeast, it rattles. I wish it had rattled right away so that I could have
taken it back in the summer, but it didn't start rattling until around
October--just after the 90 day work warranty expired you see....

BTW - Mine has always dripped a little oil around the plug. I kept
thinking there was something wrong with the gasket - the O.S. plug
tightens plenty tight - but recently I took a good close look at the
area around the drain hole. It appears there's a hairline crack along
the axis of the hole on the bottom surface of the pan. Probably
happened when whoever it was that stripped mine overtorqued it. You had
better look at yours real closely now so that if it's cracked, you can
address that with the dealer, and not discover it a year from now when
it's too late to have them replace the pan. My next project on my
Concorde will be to replace the pan.

A mechanic and I were looking at the pan yesterday, and he noted that
replacing the pan on this car should be relatively simple procedure...It's
above my skill level though as a newbie.

I see you mentioned McKinney Dodge for parts - they stopped their
internet sales several months ago. They must be back in business.

Not sure about that, but their online parts search does work. I typed in a
part number and it gave me the list price and their price.

Another question: I've been using Mobil 1. If I temporarily switch to
conventional oil, is this bad for the engine? I've heard that switching from
synthetics to regular will cause problems, and I've also heard that's an old
wives' tale.

 

[mic canic]

i have found this to be quite a issue which there is a easy and quility fix
and the local auto parts store provided a cutter plug that recuts the
threads leaves no shavings in the pan and seals it without any worries about
future leaks and saves the customer time and money

 

[Arthur Alspector]

One day some time ago, I had the idiot notion to take my 99 Intrepid to a
Canadian Tire quick oil change place. I was standing about 12 feet away
watching the monkeys go at it, when I noticed the car rocking forward and
back. I asked the manager what the problem was, and he stated 'they' had
trouble getting the oil plug back in but everything was okay. Three months
later, I took the car into the dealership for an oil change and they told me
about the loose plug and their attempts to use a larger one to fix it. I
was livid (totally furious) that I hadn't gotten a statement from Canadian
Tire stating the damage they 'may have done' to the pan at the last oil
change..

Three months later, I took it back to the dealership for another oil change
and they told me they had tried numerous tricks to get the plug to fit to no
avail and I would need a new oil pan. They said they wouldn't even consider
driving my car out of the garage for fear of the oil gushing out. I agreed
to the repair which cost a few hundred bucks which I had to pay because the
dealer said they weren't responsible for the damage. Efforts to get
remuneration from Canadian Tire were laughed at since I didn't have any
report of damage.

Lesson: Get the oil changed at the dealer where they don't let you see the
damage they cause and hopefully repair....and stay away from 'quickie' oil
change places.

 

[Bill Putney]

i have found this to be quite a issue which there is a easy and quility fix
and the local auto parts store provided a cutter plug that recuts the
threads leaves no shavings in the pan and seals it without any worries about
future leaks and saves the customer time and money

Yes - that's the oversize (O.S.) plug I posted about. However, I don't
see how it can cut threads without creating chips, but granted not as
many as drilling and tapping for a helicoil.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

[Bill Putney]

Bill Putney wrote:

...The dealer also made a mess of the door panel screws at the bottom of the
door when working on a window last summer. I read here that others had the
same experience, so it's probably more of a design issue than dealer in this
case, but I will tell them about it too...

Yes - a design issue, but Chrysler came out with a band-aid fix. Read
my first post in this thread on the 300M ezBoard:
http://pub88.ezboard.com/f300menthusiastsclubfrm8.showMessage?topicID=578.topic

It gives the complete text of the TSB about the cracked holes on the
bottom of the door panel. Part numbers are given for clips to order
thru the dealer, color matched to the door panel. Basically they are a
special design fender washer to fit the panel and cover up the broken
out areas, as well as hold the panel securely to the door. I would
suggest getting those ASAP because the longer you allow the door panel
to flop around, the more the holes will break apart and the washers
won't be as effective when you do get them.

Another question: I've been using Mobil 1. If I temporarily switch to
conventional oil, is this bad for the engine? I've heard that switching from
synthetics to regular will cause problems, and I've also heard that's an old
wives' tale.

Yep - old wive's tale.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

[Matthew S. Whiting]

Yes - that's the oversize (O.S.) plug I posted about. However, I don't
see how it can cut threads without creating chips, but granted not as
many as drilling and tapping for a helicoil.

If they are smart and make it a magnetic plug, then the chips likely
won't get far.


Matt

 

[Neil Nelson]

If they are smart and make it a magnetic plug, then the chips likely
won't get far.

The magnet is going to trap aluminum chips?

 

[clare]

The magnet is going to trap aluminum chips?

And aluminum chips in the bottom of the pan are going to do serious
damage??
I really don't think so, but greasing the tap is never a bad idea.

 

[Matthew S. Whiting]

The magnet is going to trap aluminum chips?

Nope, didn't realize the threads were in aluminum on the oil pan. I've
always had steel. What kind of car has an aluminum pan? Hard to
believe they wouldn't have put a steel thread insert into it.


Matt

 

[Matthew S. Whiting]

The magnet is going to trap aluminum chips?

Oops, didn't check the subject. I guess I won't be buying any Intrepids
with aluminum oil pans...


Matt

 

[Len]

If they are smart and make it a magnetic plug, then the chips likely
won't get far.


Matt

But will that work?

Am I reading this thread all wrong?

I think this is an aluminum pan?

Do they make aluminum magnets now?
REMOVE the NOCRAP in my address to reply.

 

[Mike Behnke]

It's really not a pan, but more of a bottom end engine cover on the 2.7.
Flat as a board on the interior side. Cast with stiffening ribs on
the exterior surface.

Better than the plastic pan on the wife's '96 3.5L Intrepid. Have had 2
holed by road debris.

 

[clare]

Oops, didn't check the subject. I guess I won't be buying any Intrepids
with aluminum oil pans...


Matt

MANY new engines use cast aluminum pans. I kinda like them, as they
don't rust thriugh. However, they also do not bend, so if you hit
something too strong, they break.

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

Oops, didn't check the subject. I guess I won't be buying any Intrepids
with aluminum oil pans...

More and more cars are coming with oil pans that are either aluminum or
composite ("plastic") rather than stamped steel. They're known as
"structural" oil pans.

DS

 

[mic canic]

aluminum??

If they are smart and make it a magnetic plug, then the chips likely
won't get far.

Matt

 

[Matthew S. Whiting]

MANY new engines use cast aluminum pans. I kinda like them, as they
don't rust thriugh. However, they also do not bend, so if you hit
something too strong, they break.

I've never had a steel oil pan rust through. I can see the weight
savings being a good deal and probably better cooling of the oil, but
I'd really want steel inserts in the pan for the drain plug. Although,
my motorcycle has Al cases with two drain plugs, but so far no problems.
I am very careful though not to overtorque the plugs as they require
very little torque, I think less than 20 lb-ft.

Matt