99 Concorde heater core replacement

Discussion in 'Concorde' started by Glenn O'Connor, Feb 6, 2008.

  1. Hi. I've just been quoted approximately $1500-1800, to have the core and
    timing belt/water pump replaced.
    I've been scraping together the money to do the belt myself, but since
    the core is
    starting to "vapor", that getting it all done at the same time would be
    good.
    Looking at the Allpar account for this model vehicle, and knowing that
    Allpar can
    be wrong, it shows hours flagged for the core replacement at 6+ hours for a
    competent
    tech.
    Is the price worth the expense quoted? The shop rate is $83 p/h and they
    offer a
    18k/18m warranty.
    Thanks.
     
    Glenn O'Connor, Feb 6, 2008
    #1
  2. Glenn O'Connor

    Road Runner Guest

    Yes this is accurate. The air conditioning system must be emptied (recovered
    with machine) and then evacuated and recharged afterward. You will want to
    replace the A/C evaporator at the same time if it shows any signs of leakage
    as they are very prone to failure.
     
    Road Runner, Feb 7, 2008
    #2
  3. Glenn O'Connor

    Bill Putney Guest

    I agree with Road Runner - he beat me to the suggestion that you replace
    the evaporator while you're in there. The evaporators in these LH cars
    are known for failing (just did my '99 Concorde evap. last year - did
    the work myself). The dash has to be completely removed to do either
    the heater core or the evaporator. Since, as RR says, the a.c. has to
    be broken open, the only added charge of replacing the evap. at the same
    time is the cost of the evap. part itself - IIRC, $200-300 depending on
    the dealer. (If a competent shop does the work, they should be able to
    re-use the old accumulator/dryer.)

    Since you mention timing *belt* - not chain - you must have the 3.2L
    engine (and not the 2.7L engine) - is that right? Be sure to also
    replace the timing belt idler/tensioner pulley too. Gates makes a
    "timing belt kit" - contains the timing belt and the idler pulley - just
    over $100 for the kit. I recommend going Gates or OEM on the water pump.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
     
    Bill Putney, Feb 7, 2008
    #3
  4. I've been mulling over the core/belt work. Me t'inks I'll opt for the core
    right at this time.
    $$ consideration. The core is a must deal!

    Considering the belt issue, and yes this is the 3.2 engine Bill, how
    difficult would it be
    for myself to change those. I've been looking at my Allpar tech info. Is
    that special piece that keeps the cam sprockets steady necessary, or do I
    merely be very cautious about working around them?
    Thanks.
     
    Glenn O'Connor, Feb 7, 2008
    #4
  5. Glenn O'Connor

    damnnickname Guest

    If you are mechanically inclined the timing belt is a rather easy job to
    do, no special tools are needed for this job. set cams, and crank and on
    your way.
    The book will probably tell you to remove the crank gear (you dont have to
    do this unless you are replacing the crank seal then a special tool is
    needed).
    As far as the heater core/Evap, that could be a tricky job to do. I have
    never used alldata and sure wouldnt attempt this job with a Haynes/Chilton
    manual. Just my 2 cents worth

    Glenn Beasley
    Chrysler Tech
     
    damnnickname, Feb 7, 2008
    #5
  6. Glenn O'Connor

    Bill Putney Guest

    If I may add:

    I have not done the timing belt on my Concorde with the 3.2L - I paid a
    shop to do it - I suppled the parts and they charged a flat $300 (I
    think they may have undercharged me a little). I hear that unless you
    pull the radiator, you would need a special short harmonic balancer
    puller. The shop that did mine complained when IO went to pick it up
    that they had to go out and buy a shorter-than-normal puller for the my job.

    ALSO - It is claimed by several on the various LH car forums that, if
    you're careful, you can work the t-belt around the balancer pulley
    without removing the pulley.

    (Oops - I think that's what you're talking about Glenn - at first I was
    thinking you were talking about removing the cam sprockets, but I think
    you're also talking about the balancer pulley?)

    Glenn (the OP Glenn) - you asked this: "Is that special piece that keeps
    the cam sprockets steady necessary, or do I merely be very cautious
    about working around them?"

    From my reading on the LH car forums, you don't need that special tool
    to hold the cams. HOWEVER, there are *several* posts where people who
    did their timing belts were scratching their heads afterwards because it
    wouldn't run, or ran poorly when they finished. Usually they didn't
    double check how they timed the cams and crank when they put it in *or*
    problems with the cam sensor not being in right (apparently it's real
    finicky). The cure in those cases is them re-doing the belt timing or
    re-installing the cam sensor and its gasket very carefully.

    I agree with Glenn on not using a Haynes or Chiltons (for anything).
    When I did my evaporator last summer, I used my hard copy FSM even
    though I also have the AllData subscription on that car. My take on
    AllData is that the info. that they do have is right out of the FSM, BUT
    they do not include the entire FSM. I did not try to pull up the
    procedural info. on my AllData account for replacing the evap., so I
    can't say for sure if there is holes in that info. - I would not be
    surprised to find that there are.

    I can tell you that the FSM is one of those written such that each
    procedure is not self-complete - IOW, just about every 2nd or 3rd step
    in the process refers you to another section to read for a "sub-process"
    (i.e., as in "(1) Remove neg. battery cable - see section ABC; (2)
    Discharge the a.c. system - see section FJV; (3) Remove dash - see
    section QLM; etc. etc.), and each section you're referred to will in
    turn be referring you to other sections. I can tell you that you don't
    have enough fingers to hold all the places of the entire procedure.
    Before I started, I read thru the whole process and photocopied all
    pages involved, then put them together in order with notes and arrows to
    the next section needed.

    There's also a couple of pieces of erroneous info. on the FSM, but
    nothing that's too hard to figure out when you get to it. There are a
    couple of places that either are written incorrectly or that were
    written so poorly and I'm just too stupid to figure out what they were
    trying to say - even after I did whatever it was, I couldn't tell you if
    what they said was right or wrong, but I muddled thru.

    My only other comment at this time is that, with all the labor of
    R&R'ing the dash, if your evaporator craps out on you 6 months after
    replacing the heater core, you're going to be kicking yourself. But
    then, life's just full of risks, aint't it.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
     
    Bill Putney, Feb 7, 2008
    #6
  7. Glenn O'Connor

    Bob Shuman Guest

    Does the 3.2L have the same O-ring design (behind the water pump - between
    the water pump housing assembly and the engine block) as the 3.5L? If so,
    then you will need to pull one of the cam sprockets (passenger side, if I
    recall correctly - it has been several years, so I may be wrong) to remove
    the water pump housing and replace that O-ring.

    I mention this here because I made the mistake of not replacing this O-ring
    when I did my first water pump on a 1996 Eagle Vision 3.5L. Everything
    seemed fine for a year, but then it started leaking again. I thought I got
    a bad pump from the dealer, but upon opening things up and looking much more
    closely, discovered the additional O-ring (same physical size/part number as
    the O-ring used between the water pump and the housing itself). Upon
    removing the housing, I discovered that the aluminum housing had significant
    corrosion where it mated with the iron block. I was able to wire brush
    everything to get it clean and applied a liberal coating of blue permatex
    RTV. That was about 5 years ago and the replacement pump and O-rings are
    still holding up well.

    Regarding Glenn's suggestion not to pull the crankshaft harmonic balancer
    pulley, I second this since it is a PITA to remove and unnecessary since the
    belt can be removed and installed with it still in place. If I remember
    correctly, the entire job took me about 3 hours, including
    removal/re-installation of the radiator, timing belt cover, water pump, cam
    sprocket, and water pump housing. I'd also encourage you to consider
    replacing all the belts, tensioner, and idler at the same time to not have
    to do it again any time soon.

    Bob
     
    Bob Shuman, Feb 7, 2008
    #7
  8. Glenn O'Connor

    maxpower Guest

    The crank has a mark, both cams have a mark. Put the belt under the crank
    sprocket (after taking off the tensioner idler pulley) Install tensioner
    Idler Pulley. Set the drivers side cam sprocket at theTDC mark and install
    the belt onto that sprocket, set the passenger side cam sproket about 1
    tooth off and install the belt over that sprocket, pull the cam sprocket
    with belt on it back to the TDC mark (this will allow it to happen because
    of slack in the belt), install belt over tensioner.
    No leave cam sprockets alone
    not needed, I beleive thats an after market tool that is used on some set
    ups, mostly chain/sprockets. You dont need such a tool
    Probably didnt run because they didnt set it up correctly to begin with. If
    the belt is installed and before installing covers you check the Timing
    marks at both cams and crank it will start!!!
     
    maxpower, Feb 7, 2008
    #8
  9. Glenn O'Connor

    philthy Guest

    in michigan i'll do it for 200.00 labor
    i do aleast 150 of these cars a year for heater cores and ac evap coils
     
    philthy, Feb 8, 2008
    #9
  10. Glenn O'Connor

    Bill Putney Guest

    You're pulling an entire dash on an LH car on average about one every
    day and a half of the work week? Two to three a week? And it only
    takes you about 3 hours start to finish?

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
     
    Bill Putney, Feb 8, 2008
    #10
  11. Glenn O'Connor

    maxpower Guest

    This job can be done in about 1 1/2 start to finish. The complete dash does
    not have to be completely removed from the vehicle.

    Glenn
     
    maxpower, Feb 8, 2008
    #11
  12. Thanks for all the input folks. I think I'll bite the bullet and pay the $$$
    to have both items serviced. At least their warranty is generous, 18k/18m.
    Just work xtra job to pay for it all!
    ;-)
     
    Glenn O'Connor, Feb 8, 2008
    #12
  13. Glenn O'Connor

    Bill Putney Guest

    Well - as proven by Einstein: "Time = money". (see - I *do* know
    science!!) :)

    It's going to cost you time either way you look at it - either time to
    do it or time to make money to pay someone else. Probably less of your
    time to work for the money and pay someone else to do it. Especially if
    you're only going to be paying someone for a couple of hours of their
    time (I do find that hard to believe). Guaranteed it would take you (or
    me - I know - I did it) a *lot* longer than that.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
     
    Bill Putney, Feb 8, 2008
    #13
  14. Well folks, I've made my final decision. To let the shop do the more
    distasteful "chore of the core". Clever turn of phrase, eh? I can tackle the
    belt/water pump later, when it warms up enought to park under my now
    leafless shade-tree. And that's not far from the truth.
    BTW, my residence is in the Greater KCMO area.
     
    Glenn O'Connor, Feb 9, 2008
    #14
  15. Glenn O'Connor

    Bill Putney Guest

    KC, huh? There is a Chrysler dealer there - Jack Miller Jeep - that
    *had* been one of the lowest price on-line OEM parts dealers -
    www.allchryslerparts.com However their web site doesn't appear to be
    active starting about the time that Cerberus bought Chrysler. Are they
    still a Chrysler dealer? Anyway - if they still are a dealer, you might
    consider them for parts.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
     
    Bill Putney, Feb 9, 2008
    #15
  16. Jack Miller's about 2 or 3 miles south of me. Have used them for service in
    the past, as well as one new purchase. However, as far as the belt/water
    pump, Advance Auto's even closer. Don't really know if OEM parts are better,
    or not Bill.
     
    Glenn O'Connor, Feb 9, 2008
    #16
  17. Glenn O'Connor

    philthy Guest

    no it takes about 5 hours and because i do them some of them at home i do
    them cheaper thats why i do so many
     
    philthy, Feb 9, 2008
    #17
  18. Glenn O'Connor

    maxpower Guest

    If you are doing that many of them and it takes you 5 hours something is
    wrong. Warranty time I believe was 2.4hrs
     
    maxpower, Feb 9, 2008
    #18
  19. Glenn O'Connor

    Steve B. Guest

    Get the waterpump from the dealer. Worth every penny of price
    difference.

    Steve B.
     
    Steve B., Feb 9, 2008
    #19
  20. Glenn O'Connor

    Bill Putney Guest

    I agree with Steve B. on the water pump. The only aftermarket water
    pump I would trust is Gates, and I don't think Advance is going to stock
    Gates. I'm not saying that other aftermarket brands won't be good or
    OK, but unless you know for sure about a particular brand, you just
    don't know. Check out www.rockauto.com. Oops - just checked them on
    the water pump - they don't carry Gates water pump, but they do carry
    the kit (belt and idler pulley) for $97.

    I say get the water pump from the dealer - this is not something that
    you want to have to re-do on this car because of typical crappy
    aftermarket part early failure ("Oh - it's got a lifetime warranty, so
    what are you worried about!?" - yeah - well, will you pay the labor too?
    Didn't think so). Lists for $100 - around $80 from discount dealers.
    When I had a shop do my '98 Concorde t-belt, pump, accessory belts and
    their idlers, hoses and thermostat two years ago, with me supplying the
    parts, I got all Gates (from Rock Auto) except I got an OEM water pump.

    IMO...

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
     
    Bill Putney, Feb 9, 2008
    #20
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