96 3.3 Dodge just stopped. Cam & crank sensors changed w/ASD. Spark hits one time only at each try.

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by coastincarl, Sep 5, 2006.

  1. coastincarl

    coastincarl Guest

    Was running fine during routine shopping. When my wife came out of
    store the engine would not crank. Fuel is no problem it has new fuel
    pump. I have replaced crank and cam sensors, also plugged in new ASD
    relay to no avail. Changed coil pack. When I check the firing at plugs
    it hits ONE HEAVY SPARK and NO MORE at each try. Only hit's again after
    ignition is turned off and then back on. Please respond with any
    coastincarl, Sep 5, 2006
  2. coastincarl

    molotov05 Guest

    molotov05, Sep 5, 2006
  3. coastincarl

    sqdancerLynn Guest

    Have you checked the timing belt ? When was it last changed ?
    sqdancerLynn, Sep 5, 2006
  4. coastincarl

    FeMaster Guest

    Starter or starter relay... Not cranking, means not turning...
    Stop wasting money on all these parts and get the starter and starter relay
    tested... Should get you "crank[ing]" again...
    FeMaster, Sep 5, 2006
  5. coastincarl

    coastincarl Guest

    Actually it does not have a timing belt, it has a chain which has bever
    been changed but I plan to look into it. Thanks
    coastincarl, Sep 5, 2006
  6. coastincarl

    FeMaster Guest

    Spelling?? I guess you read about as well as you spell. Look in the
    subject line..
    FeMaster, Sep 5, 2006
  7. coastincarl

    DeserTBoB Guest

    Timing chain slip on this? Snowball's chance in hell. Look
    DeserTBoB, Sep 5, 2006
  8. coastincarl

    NewMan Guest

    The 3.3 is a good engine. While it is alway possible that there is a
    timing chain problem, i seriously doubt it. If that was the case, then
    engine WOULD "crank", it just would not start! How many kms / miles on
    this engine?

    Check your starter. Is your wife the the primary river? if so, then
    ask her if there have been times over the last few months where the
    starter would not "crank" the engine, but then would start if she just
    turned the key of and on again. If so, then there is a chance that a
    pair fo contacts in the starter are worn out.

    This happened to me. Cost me about $35 to re&re and antother $35 to
    have the contacts replaced and a piece machined in the starter - done
    at a local rebuilder. Only difference is that I had the problem fixed
    BEFORE I got stranded.

    It just does not pay to "save money" by avoiding proper maintenance of
    a vehicle.
    NewMan, Sep 5, 2006
  9. Does the starter turn the engine, or does it only crank a little, then
    stop turning ??

    Keep in mind any newer vehicle from about 1985 on up, has an ON BOARD
    spark/fuel computer, with a variety of sensors- and the only way to
    effectively check them all, is with a special diagnostic computer-
    which the dealer has- or the better repair garages have. You have to
    "scan" the entire system first, to be sure all the sensors are working
    properly. Then also do a fuel pump pressure and volume test, and a fuel
    pump relay check- (all new cars are fuel injected- so they use an
    electric fuel pump usually) Once you eliminate the computer controls
    and sensors, THEN you can move on to the basic engine diagnosis.

    95% of the time, it's in the computer controls and fuel system. Most
    of the time, the problem is electrical or sensors.

    Finally, every car should be checked for EXHAUST BACKPRESSURE, by
    removing the O2 sensor, and running the car with a pressure tester
    screwed into the O2 tap. Many converters come up PLUGGED. My 2002 GM
    car with 75,000 miles on it, already had a plugged converter.

    Drive with a plugged converter long enough, you burn all the heads off
    the exhaust valves- due to excessive engine heat- the exhaust cant' get

    just a word to the wise.

    my advice, take the car to a shop with diagnostic computer, the days of
    the home grown fixer is over for these new cars. The only thing the
    average guy can do, is brakes, change oil, trans fluid, filters. When
    it comes to a "no run" problem, forgettaboutit...
    duty-honor-country, Sep 5, 2006
  10. coastincarl

    DeserTBoB Guest

    Now he mysteriously has a 2002 "GM car." When did this happen,
    Noodles? Raid another estate sale? Oh, BTW....a plugged converter
    usually results from BYPASSING EMISSIONS EQUIPMENT, such as EGR valves
    and air pumps, which you advocate doing elsewhere on Usenet...a
    Federal crime.
    LMAO! The engine will quit running before that point, dumbbell.
    For an idiot like you, Noodles, perhaps. For a smart tech with proper
    tools and knowledge, no way.
    DeserTBoB, Sep 5, 2006
  11. coastincarl

    coastincarl Guest

    No it doesn't stop turning - no problem with battery or starter.

    It does look like the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) is my next step
    and I may be forced to have it towed to a dealer for diagnosis. I just
    didn't want to be ripped off which none of us can afford.

    Your word to the wise concerning EXHAUST BACKPRESSURE is well taken; I
    did NOT know that. I'm in agreement with you concerning "gone are the
    days". Thanks for all your input
    coastincarl, Sep 5, 2006
  12. coastincarl

    coastincarl Guest

    I wasn't sure - was there any advise to me concerning my dilemma?
    coastincarl, Sep 5, 2006
  13. coastincarl

    uccoskun Guest

    goto dealer, ask them for the wiring diagram. try to locate all the
    sensors realted to the ignitiion system. Check all the connectors. Same
    books shows wehre the connectors are. Try to test all the sensors to be
    sure youhave working sensors. If you want you can bypass some relays.

    Be sure you check all the fuses. Especailly ECM one.

    PS: you confirm you have fuel. Relief fuel pressure and check it as you
    crank.ifyou get fuel pressure you have no fuleproblem.
    uccoskun, Sep 5, 2006
  14. coastincarl

    DeserTBoB Guest

    "Plugged" converters usually show up on car that are either prodigeous
    oil burners (ash then plugs the honycomb) or which have had their
    emssions systems tampered with (as all of Charlie Nudo's cars are)
    where the platinum substrate has been depleted by running a car too
    rich. Of course, old age kills converters, too, but I've seen them
    with 200K on them and still working satisfactorily enough to pass the
    most stringent smog testing regimen in the US. The key is good engine
    and system maintenance.

    Not long ago, a doofus nearby in an older Ranger neatly melted his cat
    converter by simply unplugging the O² sensor, forcing the fuel system
    to run rich in open loop, saying that smog control was "government
    interference" with him running his car...about as convoluted a bit of
    thinking I've seen in awhile. When told he needed a new converter AND
    a smog check, he said not to worry, just put in a spacer and that "Joe
    Blow" across town would pass it by putting his car on the
    dyno/sniffer. "Joe Blow" is now serving a five year stint in one of
    our unluxurous and adventurous state prisons for multiple counts of
    fraud and clean air violations.
    DeserTBoB, Sep 5, 2006
  15. coastincarl

    coastincarl Guest

    Thanks for the advice I have checked all fuses and relays twice!
    I have done just as you suggest - there is truly no fuel problem.
    Thanks again
    coastincarl, Sep 5, 2006
  16. coastincarl

    coastincarl Guest

    Thanks for your input - sounds more knowledgable than most.
    coastincarl, Sep 5, 2006
  17. coastincarl

    coastincarl Guest

    Engine has 134,000 miles on it. It isn't the starter, it turns over
    just fine it just doesn't fire.
    coastincarl, Sep 5, 2006
  18. coastincarl

    Morgans Guest

    Well, this is a "special" post, isn't it?

    Besides the abusive, insulting style, what you post runs quite contrary to
    my experiences. Note: the following is case history, not conjecture.
    I once had a converter plug up, and it ran, but without much power.

    After determining the problem, the converter was changed, and I discovered a
    strange situation.

    The car would run fine, then suddenly, it would lose power, then be back to
    normal. Sometimes it would be bad for a few miles, sometimes for many
    miles. After I cut the converter off and replaced it, I found that all of
    the contents of the catalytic converter had "melted", and re-solidified, as
    a perfect fitting plug against the outflow end. You could even see the
    indentations of the outflow screen in the plug.

    As you drove around, the gas flow and bumps in the road would cause the plug
    to fit against the screen, withg an expected loss of performance. After the
    car was shut off, or hit the right bump, the plug would fall into the bottom
    of the case; not blocking the exhaust flow, and the engine would run

    As far as the damage to the engine, note that it did run, even with a near
    perfect plug, but the exhaust valves were pretty well cooked, although not
    "melted" off. The compression was low on 2 out of 6 cylinders, but higher
    RPM running was not too severely affected. Idle was not good, and there was
    some stumbling as the engine RPM came up.

    So, perhaps what you seem to be so "sure" of, is not so "sure", after all.
    You might try to discuss and learn, rather than being a know-it-all.
    Morgans, Sep 5, 2006
  19. coastincarl

    Morgans Guest

    Oh, I forgot to add that this vehicle with the melted converter had been in
    the family since new, and had never run leaded gas, or had any emissions
    controls or systems bypassed, or any other systems altered. It had been
    given excellent maintenance throughout it's life.
    Morgans, Sep 5, 2006
  20. coastincarl

    DeserTBoB Guest

    Not strange at all. That's caused by running too rich a mixture
    constantly and/or very retarded ignition timing. Both can be caused
    by a shot O² sensor, open/intermittant wiring to ECM sensors or a
    defective module. In the case of the O² sensor failure, most systems
    are designed to run way too rich if the system is in open loop mode.
    DeserTBoB, Sep 6, 2006
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