600 mile range Federal law needed

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Nomen Nescio, Sep 4, 2005.

  1. Not in the Portland metro area.
    Banks does not see the PDX-to-coast traffic as it's not right on US 26,
    has filled their tanks long before going by there, that's a low-volume

    Canby is not on a major arterial, most people use I-5 not 99E, once more

    Most people buy fuel in Salem before hitting Brooks, it's low-volume

    Yamhill you have got to be kidding, there's no major arterials out there,
    people, a very low volume of gas sold, plus they are probably paying extra
    for hauling a tanker out on those roads.

    All these are very small markets, and are remote, it is no wonder your
    pricing rise - there's no competition. Those stations are
    pumping low volumes and they are already paying more for gasoline than the
    volume stations in Portland, and your seeing those station owners being

    McMinnville is closer to PDX which is why your not seeing that big a
    variance from
    the average PDX prices, there's too many people who already drive from there
    the metro area via 99W. If you were to go another 15-20 minutes into Tigard
    would see cheaper prices.

    I'll see tomorrow what the 76 I usually buy from off US 26 is charging, on
    it was 2.66 The stations along 26 are a lot higher volume than
    along 99W so they are buying a lot more gas at lower wholesale costs.

    As I said, the Oregon attorney general needs to be shot for permitting the
    companies to violate the Sherman anti-trust act in most cities in Oregon
    after the
    last round of mergers. I guessed that sooner or later we would see gouging

    Ted Mittelstaedt, Sep 6, 2005
  2. That's the real reason - you won't find it on record anywhere though. In
    any case what would you rather have done with the unemployables - do
    you want to support them on your tax dollar? I certainly don't. For what
    the state government would bite out of my taxes to support the
    private industry in gas stations can do it at a quarter of the cost.
    That's the "official" reason that everyone knows is bullcrap. There are LOTS
    official bullcrap reasons that are used all the time. For example, when
    Iraq needed
    to be invaded in order to remove a brutal human-right violator and his 2
    sons from power, the official bullcrap reason given was WMDs which everyone
    with any intelligence knew at the time was a huge fat lie. Unfortunately
    the feeble
    minded that couldn't handle the truth needed some bullcrap to believe in
    which is
    why the WMD reason was dredged up to begin with. (of course, the problem
    is that they can't come right out and say that the objective has been met
    and thus
    it's OK to go home, and they haven't come up with an official bullcrap
    to use to justify getting out of there that won't tear the veil to the
    and show those people that they knew the WMD reason was a lie at the time)

    This is SOP for all governments, why are you upset about it?
    Most stations also allow motorcycle riders to fill their own tanks.

    Ted Mittelstaedt, Sep 6, 2005
  3. Before you go off half-cocked, know they have developed solar cells
    that decompose water directly and can produce hydrogen and oxygen
    directly from seawater and sunlight, no electricity is involved, not even
    within the cell itself.

    That doesen't of course negate the storage problems and make hydrogen
    even remotely usable for vehicle fuel, but it does pretty much blow away
    the 'takes more energy to produce it then you get back" argument.

    It took more solar energy to produce the oil deposits than we get back
    from them, also. The difference is that you can pretty much assume that
    solar energy is unlimited on the Earth and available almost everywhere,
    so even if we can only generate a watt of power for every 10 watts of
    power in sunlight that we get, since
    the sunlight is free, after the initial cost to setup, there's no continuing
    costs for the raw energy.

    Ted Mittelstaedt, Sep 6, 2005
  4. Nomen Nescio

    351CJ Guest

    Yes in the Portland metro area.
    You ought to look around before you make such statements.

    I guess I should have specified, ALL the places in between too, Like
    Aurora, 3 stations right across the street from each other on I-5 (also a
    major truck refueling stop)
    Wilsonville, Tigard, Beaverton, Aloha, Hillsboro, Cornelius, Forest Grove,
    Clackamas, Milwaukee, Oak Grove, Portland, ETC. ETC. ETC.

    I monitor Fuel prices quite closely, and Canby and Cornelius consistently
    have some of the lowest prices in the greater Portland area...
    351CJ, Sep 6, 2005
  5. Nomen Nescio

    Bill Putney Guest


    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Sep 6, 2005
  6. Nomen Nescio

    Bill Putney Guest

    Exactly - that was the point of my previous post. The thing we can't do
    is plug a power cord into the wall to do these
    inconvenient-to-convenient energy source conversions. The most obvious
    way to do it is to capture power from the sun that is essentially one of
    God's gift to mankind. However, you just wait - environmentalists a
    hundred years from now will come up with a reason that we can't do it,
    or that it has to be very heavily taxed to discourage its use. They'll
    quit talking about our mother the earth and start talking about our
    mother the sun or the great sun god or godess that we have to respect or
    some such other crap.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Sep 6, 2005
  7. Nomen Nescio

    Matt Whiting Guest

    Yes, and that energy was integrated over a fairly long period of time as
    best we know. It is hard to replicate that now so we need to look for
    means of using sunlight in "real time", not things that take years to
    store up to get a day's worth of energy in return.

    Matt Whiting, Sep 6, 2005
  8. Nomen Nescio

    me! Guest

    Don't laugh everyone... In an argument (family discussion) we put forth the
    idea of launching nuclear waste to the sun..(however fraught that is with
    all kinds of *other* problems among them an explosion showering us with
    nuclear waste...) one of the kids came up with


    So Bill there it is.. !!
    me!, Sep 6, 2005
  9. No, not in the Portland metro area - again.

    Look at the site's chart here:


    Note the average price 8/27 - 8/30 was 2.60

    Look at today - the top 15 stations on the front page of
    the site are at 2.63 - 2.66.

    Where is this price jump in the Portland metro area?

    Your looking at their average price rise - the problem is that their
    average does not represent a real average of a price per gallon because
    the stations aren't reporting their volume.

    Some of the low volume stations in PDX are using the hurricane
    as an excuse to gouge, that's all. 2 weeks ago the spread between
    high price and low price was much smaller. Now those low volume
    stations are skewing the average.

    This is what they mean when they say statistics lie. We have a spread
    of 2.59 for the low and 3.15 for the high - a whopping 56 cent spread.
    The stations that are gouging 50 cents a gallon extra will get away with
    it for a few weeks then everyone will stop going to them and when they
    start losing money they will drop the price. 3 weeks ago I would guess
    that there was no 56 cent spread on that site.
    Sigh. Go back to that website and start looking at the top 15 again. Let's
    Clackamas, Hillsboro, Portland, Beaverton Damascus, Linnton.
    I would guess Not Anymore. I suspect your favorte stations are just using
    the hurricane as an excuse to gouge. We are going to see a lot of that I

    Truth is I have been rather surprised to see this at certain stations -
    I've seen
    stations with a 10 cent difference in price right next to each other in the
    last week,
    so has my wife. Previously the biggest difference we have seen was 3 cents
    in these instances. And some of the stations that I've avoided over the
    last 6 months
    because they always ran 3-4 cents higher are now lower. For example the 76
    next to my house has always been 3 cents higher than the Shell down the
    now it's reversed.

    I can understand fuel price gouging when there's fuel shortages but we don't
    have a shortage here, I've yet to see a gas station with a sign out saying
    are out of gas.

    Cool site though, I'll have to start reporting the stations I pass daily.

    Ted Mittelstaedt, Sep 7, 2005
  10. Nomen Nescio

    Don Guest

    What would really make sense, is making vehicles that don't use gasoline, or
    at least very little of it. I say we should have cars that get 100 mpg or
    better. Bush gave billions of your $$$$$$ to the oil companies but should
    have given it to those who would find alternative fuel sources instead. Then
    we wouldn't be fighting wars in foreign lands for their oil, and our
    National Guardsmen would be home to protect our cities during a time of
    crises like we are seeing on the news channels 24/7.
    Don, Sep 7, 2005
  11. Nomen Nescio

    Bill Putney Guest

    Oh please!! So where was all that money for alternative energy going
    before Bush?

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Sep 7, 2005
  12. Nomen Nescio

    351CJ Guest

    Aurora and Brooks have the cheapest diesel 2.89 in Oregon today...
    351CJ, Sep 7, 2005
  13. Use a really, really, really BIG magnifying glass! ;-)

    I think the oil-creating process that took a failrly long period of time
    was probably on the order of .000000000000000000001%
    efficiency. It's impossible to calculate of course, since we don't
    know how many hundreds of gallons of plant oil had to be produced
    for one drop of it to find it's way down thousands of feet of rock and
    sand into an oil dome. But clearly, we should be able to do a lot
    better than that with solar energy.

    Ted Mittelstaedt, Sep 7, 2005
  14. You've been listening to George Carlin again. ;-)

    Ted Mittelstaedt, Sep 7, 2005
  15. It's not finding the sources that's the problem, go outside and look up and
    there it is. It's developing the alternative ones that have an ongoing cost
    operation that's cheaper than just digging oil up out of the ground.

    Consdier also that if the US ever seriously did that, that the Mid East oil
    producers could easily drop the price of a barrel of oil down to $5 a
    barrel or some such - they might have to give up a few solid gold
    bathroom fixtures to do it - for long enough to make sure that such
    sources would be throughly quashed.

    Oil production is like diamond production. It's rediculously cheap and a
    massive conspiracy called OPEC exists to make sure it stays expensive,
    in order to bleed as much money as possible out of consumers.

    Last I checked raw sunlight is free - in fact in most homes we spend a lot
    of money getting rid of what we call "waste heat" via air conditioning that
    is generated by that sunlight falling on those homes. It is simply a matter
    converting all that free energy into a more usable and storable form.
    Once someone invents a photovoltiac solar cell that has an efficiency
    on the order of 80% instead of the miserable 15-20% today, we already
    have zinc-air battery technology available that could make use of that.

    There's some promising research on 50% efficient solar cells here:


    Ted Mittelstaedt, Sep 7, 2005
  16. Nomen Nescio

    Bill Putney Guest

    Oh crap! You're telling me that I'm thinking like George Carlin!
    Seriously I don't listen to him. This is upsetting! 8^)

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Sep 7, 2005
  17. Nomen Nescio

    Bill Putney Guest

    No - our politicians (and apparently those in Europe) would just tax it

    Remember that Beatles song "The Taxman" that I quoted a few weeks ago:
    "...Take a walk and I'll tax your feet..."

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Sep 7, 2005
  18. Nomen Nescio

    Don Guest

    They can go ahead and tax my feet. Just so long as I'm not working my life
    away to pay for some Arab.

    We need independence from foreign oil.

    Don't be so pig-headed and admit that your boy bush is a mistake.
    Don, Sep 7, 2005
  19. Nomen Nescio

    351CJ Guest

    You do realize that this "oil" system was in place LONG before either Bush
    and will be in place long after, don't you?
    351CJ, Sep 8, 2005
  20. Nomen Nescio

    Don Guest

    Unfortunately, yes.

    I'd rather pay for some other method of getting around as long as no bush or
    an Arab is getting rich off my need to travel to and from work etc. But
    until that time, I will suffer along with the rest of you.
    Don, Sep 8, 2005
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