600 mile range Federal law needed

During the evacuation of New Orleans, on-board fuel supply and on-road fuel
availability was of considerable importance and worry to car travellers.

It is feasible to build cars with fuel tanks of sufficient capacity to
achieve 600 range with reserve.

Car makers consider 325 miles with reserve good enough. It isn't. Since
car makers won't build cars this way, we need to force it down their
throats with a Federal Law.

 

ya but at what point do you stop paying to transport gas around.
1st rule of fuel economy drive light on the peddle and make sure the car is
light.
I can't recall how much 1 gallon of gas weighs in at. nor can I recall how
many lbs of weight removal = increase of available horsepower.
point being is driving around with nearly 2 times the amount of fuel = 2
times the amount of weight there for fuel economy would suffer. and would
ppl pay $60 to fill a dodge neon. nope better off driving with 1/2 tank just
like it is now.

 

During the hurricanes that hit Florida last year, fuel supply was an issue
for several months - as it will be in Louisianna, Alabama and Mississippi.
However, mandating a 600-mile range on vehicles with more federal regulation
isn't the answer and didn't mean anything when you couldn't get gas in the
first place. It does nothing to put in larger fuel tanks if nobody can
afford to fill them, and the people who most needed to evacuate seldom had
cars to begin with.

Start with something that makes more sense, like mandating that gas stations
must have a way to retrieve the fuel from their in-ground tanks when the
electricity fails. That makes more sense than a larger gas tank in your
car.

There's going to be plenty more beaurocracy and enough federal rules and
reccomendations to choke a horse when all this is done - let's concentrate
on the important ones and not something that means little and is worth even
less. It scares me to think of what people are going to be screaming for
all in the name of public safety after this - perhaps federalizing all
agencies in state and local governments, conscription, siezing personal
property (boats, buses, aircraft, etc.)? Let's not make this harder and
more confusingly complex than we have to by overloading it with little
unimportant issues. My first prediction is that whatever spending bill to
fund disaster preparedness is passed after this is all over will contain
more unrelated pork than it will have money that actually gets to the people
who need it in order to minimize the potential tragedies of the next major
event - and you can take that prediction to the bank!

Jonathan

 

Nomen---OH SHUT UP!!!

 

Nomen Nescio wrote: "During the evacuation of New Orleans, on-board fuel
supply and on-road fuel availability was of considerable importance and
worry to car travellers. It is feasible to build cars with fuel tanks of
sufficient capacity to achieve 600 range with reserve.

Car makers consider 325 miles with reserve good enough. It isn't. Since
car makers won't build cars this way, we need to force it down their throats
with a Federal Law."

The problem is not how far a car can travel without refueling. The problem
is many stations lost electrical power to run the pumps. I drove home to
the area from Hots Springs, Arkansas. I anticipated having fuel problems
once I arrived home. I started looking for a gas station in Vicksburg , MS
and was not able to find one that had power. Got to Natchez, MS and found
power on a one station and a line of cars 1/2 mile long trying to fuel up.
Got to the second car in line and the power went out. I then head West down
US 84 until I found a gas station with power. Only fuel they had left was
the premium.

Made it home to find all the electricity was off and no one was selling
fuel. The next day power was restored In a neighboring town and I waited
2.5 miles to fuel up. They owner of the station was handing out water to
customers in line. He told me that he was able to secure two truck loads of
fuel and that was it.

Many gas stations are not open even though they have power because they
can't get the fuel.

Nine refineries have been shut down in the affected areas. Gasoline
supplies will be limited until all of them get back on line.The following
facilities should be starting up Shell Chemical Mobile, Alabama, Motiva
Convent, LA, Marathon Oil Garyville, LA. The following facilities will be
starting up as soon as wind damage can be repaired Motiva/ Shell Chemical
Norco, LA, Valerio, Norco, LA. The following will need extensive repair due
to wind and flood damage: Conoco-Phillips in Belle Chase, LA, Chalmette
Refining LLC Chalmette, LA, Shell Chemical St Rose, LA and Murphy Oil U.S.A.
Inc. Meraux, LA.

Gasoline will be in short supply across the nation until the refineries
start back up and at full operation. At present, Louisiana lost the
refining capacity of 1,470703 barrels of crude a day. Normally Louisiana
could refine 2,772,723 barrels of crude a day. So over half the refining
capacity has been affected by the storm. See the facts at
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/state/la.html

Offshore production will be cranking back up for several deepwater rigs. As
of 09-02-05 88 percent of the oil production in the Gulf of Mexico has been
shutdown. 20 platform or rigs are missing. One pipeline is damaged. See
the facts at
http://www.ocsbbs.com/Hurricane_katrina_evacuation_stats_Sept_2_2005.htm
The LOOP offshore oil facality has been shutdown due to damage to on shore
power grid needed for the LOOP to operate. Repairs are in progress.

The refineries that are operating will be operating on short supplies and
will not be running at full rates due to the lack of crude even with the
strategic reserve.

Sarge

 

I don't believe this is the case across the nation. Here in Oregon gasoline
prices
have remained flat for the last month or two. I strongly suspect that the
oil
companies don't like to pay a lot of money to ship gasoline all over the
place
and that a lot more of it is refined and sold locally than most people would
believe, and that the oil companies will admit. I also strongly suspect,
going on
what I know about how business is conducted in LA, that a lot of the oil
companies down there are giving wildly exaggerated estimates of how short
the
fuel supplies are going to be over the next weeks and months, simply in an
effort to keep fuel prices high to they can profiteer. Given that the oil
companies
own the current President, you won't see any tangible effort to stop the
price
gouging from the White House either, I am sorry to say.

Of course, I also know that saying all this is like rubbing salt in the
wound
to the people in that area that are reading this. But you should know that
the media is lying to you, gas prices in the rest of the country haven't
spiked
like a Super Bowl football on a touchdown. (at least, not here) I just
bought
gas at a 76 station on Friday at $2.66 a gallon and it was within 7 cents a
gallon
of that a month ago.

Consider also that summer is over and people are mostly pretty much finished
with their summer vacation driving, and gasoline sales during this period go
down anyway.

Ted

 

Not really. Most people pay with credit or debit cards and don't carry $40
around in cash just to buy gasoline (what it costs to fill my tank) and when
the
power goes, those forms of payment are useless.

In any case, this is a matter better handled by the states. I'm sure that
Montana
doesen't have to worry much about massive hurricanes coming through and
flooding it's major cities for weeks at a time.

Why? Nothing concrete was done after 911 other than invade two
foreign countries, well this time there's nothing to invade.

Ted

 

Hum...
My 2005 6.0L Power Stroke Diesel carries 59 gallons of diesel (Just shy of
420 pounds of diesel fuel). (Diesel weighs about 7.1 pounds per US gallon)
(Gasoline weighs about 6.2 pounds per US gallon)
Truck Gets 14.5 miles per gallon.
That equals 855 miles per fill up.
You don't need any Federal Law, what you are asking for is already on the
market.

At $3.15 per gallon, today's price, that's $185.85 to fill up from empty. I
just spent $140 doing it yesterday. :-(

 

Why build bigger gas tanks? Why not mandate better fuel economy to get
the same effect?

 

Yeah, and we need "reproduction permits" to cleanse the gene pool
also............

 

how many you want ....... i have my printer working again

 

If cars had bigger fuel tanks they would collect more moisture. Most people
would still run around with 5 gallons or less in them

Al

 

I made it from Niagara Falls to Dayton Ohio without filling up in my 99
windstar with a car top carrier, I couldnt imagine needing to flee further
then that from anything.

 

: "I don't believe this is the case across the
nation. Here in Oregon gasoline prices have remained flat for the last
month or two. I strongly suspect that the oil companies don't like to pay a
lot of money to ship gasoline all over the place
and that a lot more of it is refined and sold locally than most people would
believe, and that the oil companies will admit. I also strongly suspect,
going on what I know about how business is conducted in LA, that a lot of
the oil companies down there are giving wildly exaggerated estimates of how
short the fuel supplies are going to be over the next weeks and months,
simply in an effort to keep fuel prices high to they can profiteer. Given
that the oil companies own the current President, you won't see any tangible
effort to stop the price gouging from the White House either, I am sorry to
say.
Of course, I also know that saying all this is like rubbing salt in the
wound to the people in that area that are reading this. But you should know
that the media is lying to you, gas prices in the rest of the country
haven't spiked like a Super Bowl football on a touchdown. (at least, not
here) I just bought gas at a 76 station on Friday at $2.66 a gallon and it
was within 7 cents a gallon
of that a month ago.
Consider also that summer is over and people are mostly pretty much finished
with their summer vacation driving, and gasoline sales during this period go
down anyway."

And you don't believe 9 less refineries producing gasoline will affect the
price? Most of the gasoline refined in Louisiana does not supply your area
in Oregon. The pipelines from this area supplies mostly the Northeast and
immediate area. Gasoline supplied to the West Coast is supplied by plants
in California 21 (refineries 2,017,401 barrels a day) and Washington (5
refineries 616,150 barrels a day). Louisiana refine 2,772,723 barrels a
day, which is greater then both California and Washington together. So tell
me how the supply of gasoline is not going to be reduced?

The last new refinery built was in 1976 in Garyville, LA. It is owned by
Marathon Oil. We need more refineries to reduce the cost of gasoline or we
need to reduce our need. Gasoline cannot be stored long term like crude
oil. Several of your major oil companies have announced a price freeze to
its jobbers on the cost of gasoline in the affected states of Louisiana,
Mississippi and Alabama.

Texas 27 refineries and 4,627,611 barrels per day cannot increase production
of gasoline they are all running at capacity.
Mississippi 4 refineries at 364,800 barrels per day cannot increase
production. Their biggest refinery in Pascagoula @ 325,000 BCD is shutdown
due to damage.

There are other states that refine oil. Texas, Louisiana and California are
the largest. The US gasoline consumption is about 9.0 million bbl/d. Lost
of production from 8 to 9 refineries has to hurt the supply.

Before the Hurricane I paid 2.49 for a gallon of gasoline regular.
Yesterday I filled up my truck and paid 2.54 a gallon. The biggest problem
is finding stations that have fuel since the entire area of Jefferson
Parish, Orleans Parish, and St Tammany Parish have no electricity. The
people that live in theses areas are now trying to get home to see what's
left or living with friends or relatives in the metro area. My household
has increased by 2 and my sisters by 4 and my parents by 6 since our
relatives have no place to go home or no electricity where they live at. My
mother's home looks like a used car lot with 8 extra cars in her driveway.

Sarge

 

It is extra interesting to see Oregon gas prices are stable.
In eastern Canada as soon as Katrina shut down the
Gulf wells retail gas prices went up by 25 per cent (and
Canada produces 100 per cent of what Canada produces
-- although for cheapness western Canadian oil is exported
to the USA and we import US oil in eastern Canada.

 

If you talk to anyone that has pulled tanks out of newer cars to change a
fuel pump, you will see they usually fit pretty tight. I think the
automakers are more worried about space in the car than the tank. Of course
this doesn't apply to trucks that have lots of room and huge tanks. I would
hate to pay the bill on a 1 ton with dual tanks.

 

Like that would stop the American Empire?


Vuarra

Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound.)

 

Well...
Oregon Fuel prices are NOT "Stable" !!!

Just before Katrina, #2 Diesel was around $2.80 per gallon, it is now (as of
Saturday) at $3.15 per gallon.
Gasoline has hovered right under these prices, rising right along with
them...

 

Screw you. Damn Democrat. A once in fifty years event is no reason to extend
the increasingly uncontrollable reach of the government. The phony "war" on
big business is a completely Liberal tactic. Get yourself "Edjikated".

conserative spike

 

Heh - no I disagree - I have seen Diesel prices in Oregon rising long before
this
and gasoline prices are NOT coupled to them, and least not where I'm buying
gas. Diesel is indeed quite higher than gas, and I'm sure that if any of
those diesel
owners are left who bought Diesel cars years ago thinking they would save
money
on fuel they are probably screaming now.

I typically buy gasoline in Washington County. I live in PDX and the prices
with
the city boundary appear to be at least 10-20 cents a gallon higher than
right outside
of it, such as in unincorporated Washington County (along US 26) and in
East Multnomah county outside of Gresham.

Prices in the rest of the state are higher. Prices along I-5 through most
of the
state are gouging - it is asinine, there's gas stations along I-5 such as in
Albany
where they are 20 cents a gallon higher than if you drive a mile away from
the
interstate and buy gas at a station there. Prices along the coast are
rediculous but
they always have been rediculous.

Part of the problem in many parts of the state is after the Shell/Texaco
merger
that removed competition in many of the smaller towns. I still don't
understand
why the lame-ass Oregon Attorney General hasn't done something about it
because
there's lots of places in PDX where you have 2 Shell stations literally
across the
street from each other.

Where are you buying fuel?

Ted