500 ppm diesel still readily available......

Checking out the local gas station as I was filling up since I may get
a diesel
soon and they still sell 500 PPM sulpher diesel. What is the point of
mandating
80% of diesel production be Ultra Low Sulpher when nobody has to sell
it?

Also diesel Rams now meet 2010 emission standards but not the
Sprinters?
Seems odd since Sprinter comes from Europe where diesel is big....

http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20070123/CLTU00523012007-1.html

WASHINGTON, Jan. 23 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- New 2007 Dodge Ram 2500
and 3500 with Cummins 6.7-liter turbodiesel engine is first Chrysler
Group BLUETEC vehicle and first to meet stringent 2010 truck emissions
standards in all 50 states.

- 6.7-liter Cummins turbodiesel engine achieves 2010 NOx emission
standards three years early, making it the cleanest and
best-performing
heavy-duty pickup truck in the market
- BLUETEC-equipped 2007 Dodge Ram Heavy Duty available in March,
starting
at $33,650 (includes destination)
- 2007 Dodge Ram Heavy Duty is the first Chrysler Group BLUETEC
vehicle
- Breakthrough emissions technology along with the use of Ultra Low
Sulfur
Diesel (ULSD) enables "systems approach" to improve air quality
- Nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions reduced by as much as 90 percent;
particulate emissions virtually eliminated
- Diesel engines provide up to 30 percent better fuel economy when
compared to equivalent gasoline engines


Today at the Washington (D.C.) Auto Show, the U.S. Environmental
Protection Agency (EPA), together with the Department of Energy (DOE),
Chrysler Group and Cummins, recognized the new 2007 Dodge Ram Heavy
Duty as the cleanest mass-production diesel-engine pickup truck on the
market.

Available in dealerships in March, the Dodge Ram Heavy Duty's 6.7-liter
Cummins turbodiesel engine is the first to meet 2010 truck emissions
standards in all 50 states, and will be significantly cleaner than
other pickup trucks. It is the first BLUETEC vehicle from the Chrysler
Group.

"This new technology is a significant validation of industry's ability
to meet EPA's 2010 clean diesel standards. These innovations help power
our economy and drive our environmental successes," said Bill Wehrum,
EPA's Acting Assistant Administrator for Air and Radiation.

The new 2007 Dodge Ram Heavy Duty engine uses a diesel particulate
filter (DPF) to virtually eliminate particulate matter emissions and an
adsorber catalyst to reduce oxides of nitrogen (NOx) by as much as 90
percent.

"The Dodge Ram Heavy Duty pickup truck with the new 6.7-liter Cummins
turbodiesel engine is the cleanest diesel truck available on the
market," said Tom LaSorda, President and Chief Executive Officer,
Chrysler Group. "Working together with Cummins, Dodge is the only
manufacturer to meet stringent 2010 emissions standards -- today.
That's great news for our Heavy Duty customers -- 80 percent of whom
choose the diesel option."

Dodge Ram Heavy Duty trucks' long-standing relationship with Cummins
was established in 1988 and continues to thrive with new, more
powerful, more efficient and cleaner turbodiesel engines. In Indiana
late last year, Cummins produced the 1.5-millionth diesel engine for
the Dodge Ram.

"Partnerships like the one we have enjoyed with the DOE and the
leadership shown by the EPA on ULSD have provided the right environment
for this technological breakthrough," said Tim Solso, Cummins Chairman
and CEO. "We continue to research and invest in technologies that
ensure Dodge Ram heavy- duty trucks equipped with the Cummins
turbodiesel engine are as clean as they are powerful."

Improved Emissions and Durability

In addition to the NOx adsorber and the DPF, the 6.7-liter turbodiesel
engine includes other technologies to improve fuel efficiency and
reduce unburned hydrocarbons.

- A cooled exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system combines with a
uniquely designed piston combustion bowl and a high-flow,
electronically-controlled Variable Geometry Turbocharger (VGT(TM)),
matching boost pressure with the engine's performance needs to
reduce
emissions and improve drivability
- Within the exhaust system, a self-cleaning DPF and an oxidation
catalyst
reduces particulate matter by a factor of 10. The emissions system
is
designed for a government-certified 120,000 miles
- A new closed crankcase ventilation system eliminates crankcase
fumes and
oil carry-over, a common problem with past diesels


As durable as it is powerful, the 6.7-liter Cummins turbodiesel has
life- to-major overhaul intervals of 350,000 miles, providing more than
a 100,000- mile advantage over the competition.

Nearly 40 percent of the new engine's parts are carryover, with
modifications geared to surpass emissions standards and increase
horsepower and torque, while maintaining the durability associated with
Dodge and Cummins.

Dodge Ram Heavy Duty models equipped with the 6.7-liter Cummins
turbodiesel engine will begin appearing in dealerships in March,
starting at $33,650 including destination.

Chrysler Group Diesel-powered Models

In the United States, current Chrysler Group diesel-powered models
include the Dodge Ram Heavy Duty, powered by the new 6.7-liter Cummins
turbodiesel; the all-new Dodge Ram 3500 Chassis Cab, with a new
6.7-liter Cummins turbodiesel; the Dodge Sprinter, with a 2.7-liter
Common-rail Direct Injection (CDI) turbodiesel; and the Jeep(R) Grand
Cherokee, featuring a new 3.0-liter V-6 turbodiesel engine (which hits
the market early this year).

In Europe, diesel-powered models account for more than half of Chrysler
Group sales. Diesel versions of numerous Chrysler Group vehicles
continue to be popular, including the Chrysler 300C, Chrysler PT
Cruiser, Jeep Grand Cherokee and Jeep Compass, as well as the all-new
2007 Dodge Caliber and 2007 Jeep Wrangler.

Advanced diesel technology is part of the Chrysler Group's advanced
propulsion technology umbrella, which also includes efficient gasoline
engines, hybrids, flex-fuel vehicles and biodiesel capability.

Dodge Brand

With a U.S. market share of 6 percent, Dodge is the Chrysler Group's
best- selling brand and the fifth largest nameplate in the U.S.
automotive market. In 2006, Dodge sold more than 1.3 million vehicles
in the global market. Dodge continues to lead the minivan market with a
20 percent market share in the U.S. In the highly competitive truck
market, Dodge has a 15 percent market share. Dodge is also entering key
European volume segments with Nitro and Caliber.

Cummins

Cummins Inc., a global power leader, is a corporation of complementary
business units that design, manufacture, distribute and service engines
and related technologies, including fuel systems, controls, air
handling, filtration, emission solutions, and electrical power
generation systems. Headquartered in Columbus, Indiana, Cummins serves
customers in more than 160 countries through its network of 550
company-owned and independent distributor facilities and more than
5,000 dealer locations. Cummins produces the diesel for the Dodge Ram
2500 and 3500 series.

..

 

Beleive me, you filled up with ULSD.

Mandates require it be in all retail locations October 15, 2006.

In California by Sept 1, 2006.

Only place you still buy 500 ppm is outside California is for offroad,
Marine and locomotive uses until June 1.
Unless you go to Mexico where you can still buy yellow diesel. (yellow
because it has so much sulphur in it)

 

California pumps carry no label because the fuel is mandated statewide -
no choice so no need for a label on the #2 pump. Specific EPA labeling
exemption for California fuel retailers.

 

Gee... sound so copyrighted!

 

greek_philosophizer wrote:

Don't fool yourself- Cat, Cummins, and Navistar are still way ahead of
the european diesel manufacturers. The Europeans were having fits of
ecstasy over common-rail injection when it had been on the Cummins in
the Ram for 2 model years.

 

Hah! Let me get this straight: We (the U.S.) have 800 ppm diesel, and
Mexico has Diesel that has so much sulfur in it that it is called
"yellow diesel"?

Did I miss something? Isn't Mexico a member of the Kyoto Treaty? Isn't
it ironic that we catch so much crap for not signing Kyoto, and yet, we
are stricter on ourselves than Kyoto is on its own members. To quote
Mel Brookes: "Woof!!".

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

what part of 80% don't you get? if it is required that 80% of diesel
sold be the new stuff, then 20% can be the dirtier stuff, you found
the 20%

 

That 80% is 100% of retail locations for automobiles

 

No, the US has 5 ppm diesel.
The US used to sell high sulphur diesel until I think till the 80s
That is why the pump handles were yellow, but now green.
Notice the fuel containers are still yellow.

Just because they may be a member does not mean it takes effect imediatly or
that the treaty called for reduction of sulphur in diesel.
Have you read the treaty?

It's actually was .05% sulphur content. Not all areas have the high sulplur
diesel. Problem is it's high sulfur content is unkind to turbochargers, and
electronic metered fuel circuits.
They sell 500 PPM disel in most of Mexico now.
PEMEX is suppose to start making 5 ppm diesel later this year.

 

Then I guess that begs the question even more: What value is Kyoto if we
here in the U.S. (a non-member) control environmental minutia that Kyoto
apparently doesn't even address and that its members like Mexico are way
further behind in? IOW - why are we supposed to feel guilty for not
signing when we apparently do better relying on our own integrity than
signers are required to do by what they signed?

No I haven't.

Not following you there. *What* was actually 0.05% sulphur content? BTW
- 0.05% is the same as 500 ppm.

Not all areas have the high sulplur

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Yea - but the year is wrong on the copyright (still says 2006)


© 2007 Josh. Publication in any form is highly encouraged

 

Ya know, if you post to a public news group I think it becomes public
property. I'm not a copywrite lawyer, I just play one in cyberspace.

 

This exact notion has been debated to death on usenet literally
for decades and here's what I take to be consensus.

When you post to usenet it's understood you're giving an implicit right
to copy as when you hit send you're saying "send this everywhere"
and of course the article is copied on hundreds if not thousands
of times. Morso it's impossible to delete an article for all practical
purposes once it's been sent.

 

I do not know where you are getting that. First there is no 5 PPM
requirement yet and the US had nothing but a 500 PPM standard until
about a year ago after EPA mandated the change some time before that
and also not current Dodge sold today as it is equipped meets NOx
emissons for 2008 as they will have more equipment added to them in 08
and the new CTS will gain about 130 pounds in the process for
additional emission controls added to it. THe main reason for LSD is
so they can add true CATS to them (not thermo reracotrs mistaken for
CATS) staring in 08 as sulpher need to be at or below 50 PPM for CATS
to work on them. Any high sulpher fuel around here is just from stocks
because it is not longer being made and even off road will be LSD.

 

THe main reason for LSD is

Now, how many times do you have to read the encyclopedia before you
understand that what your calling a thermo reactor is infact by definition a
Catalytic Converter. I've posted that same thing to you several times, and
in fact even DODGE disagrees with you, they call it a catalyst also! so
there is no mistaken point other than yours.

--
----------------------------
-Chris
05 CTD
06 Liberty CRD

Real Trucks don't NEED spark plugs.

 

You are the one brain dead here, That thermo reactor (or TR for short)
is for suspended particulates and it is not a CAT!! Sulpher in fuel in
past would kill it big time (they had to remove it from gas starting
in early 70's along with lead to make way for CATS on them starting in
75) but then there are always the uninformed like yourself that think
they know all the answers and still believe it is a CAT. Cut one apart
and you will find that it is not a CAT. Starting in 2008 with LSD they
will have CATS. Your reliance on WinPedia proves your true lack of
understanding of automotive emission technology

 

My typos... 15 ppm

 

Then why does the engineers that write the FSM call it a Cat? Come on man!

and my reliance on wikipedia is as a simple tool to provide reliable
information anyone can check and read. if you wish you too could google
catalytic converter and find as much information on the subject as you wish.
I'm not going to post it all. just the easiest to understand. notice the
very last link I posted in this post. it was from Cummins the engine company
that builds the very engine you claim so much knowledge about, and what do
they call your Thermal Reactor????

say what you will about my understanding, I on the other hand along with the
service managers I have worked with over the years know different.

straight from the wikipedia site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter
[edit] Two-way catalytic converters
A two-way catalytic converter has two simultaneous tasks:

1.. Oxidation of carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide: 2CO + O2 ? 2CO2
2.. Oxidation of unburnt hydrocarbons (unburnt and partially-burnt fuel)
to carbon dioxide and water: 2CxHy + (x+y)O2 ? 2xCO2 + yH2O
This type of catalytic converter is widely used on diesel engines to reduce
hydrocarbon and carbon monoxide emissions. They also were used on spark
ignition (gasoline) engines in automobiles up until 1981, when they were
replaced by three-way converters due to regulatory changes requiring
reductions on NOx emissions.

Curiously the regulations regarding hydrocarbons vary according to the
engine regulated, as well as the jurisdiction. In some cases what is
regulated is "non-methane hydrocarbons" and in other cases the regulated
substance is "total hydrocarbons". Technology for one application (to meet a
non-methane hydrocarbon standard) may not be suitable for use in an
application that has to meet a total hydrocarbon standard. Methane is more
difficult to break down in a catalytic converter, so in effect a
"non-methane hydrocarbon" standard can be considered to be looser. However
since methane is a greenhouse gas, more interest is rising in how to
eliminate emissions of it.

[edit] Diesel Engines
For compression ignition (I.e., Diesel) engines, the most commonly used
catalytic converter is the diesel oxidation catalyst. The catalyst uses
excess O2 (oxygen) in the exhaust gas stream to oxidize CO (Carbon Monoxide)
to CO2 (Carbon Dioxide) and HC (hydrocarbons) to H2O (water) and CO2. These
converters often reach 90% effectiveness, virtually eliminating diesel odor
and helping to reduce visible particulates (soot), however they are
incapable of reducing NOx as chemical reactions always occur in the simplest
possible way, and the existing O2 in the exhaust gas stream would react
first.

To reduce NOx on a compression ignition engine it is necessary to change the
exhaust gas - two main technologies are used for this - selective catalytic
reduction (SCR) and NOx (NOx) traps (or NOx Adsorbers).

Another issue for diesel engines is particulate (soot). This can be
controlled by a soot trap or diesel particulate filter (DPF), as catalytic
converters are unable to affect elemental carbon (however they will remove
up to 90% of the soluble organic fraction). A clogging soot filter creates a
lot of back pressure decreasing engine performance. However, once clogged,
the filter goes through a regeneration cycle where diesel fuel is injected
directly into the exhaust stream and the soot is burned off. After the soot
has been burned off the regeneration cycle stops and injection of diesel
fuel stops. This regeneration cycle will not affect performance of the
engine.

All major diesel engine manufacturers(Ford, Caterpillar, Cummings, Volvo,
MMC) starting January 1, 2007 are required to have a catalytic converter and
a soot filter inline, as per a new DoT legislation(citation needed)

here's you a few more

a manufacturer's brochure on Diesel Catalyst

http://ect.jmcatalysts.com/pdf/DCC.pdf

from Cummins.com

http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content.jsp?siteId=1&langId=1033&dataId=1136&newsInfo=true&menuId=4

Cleanest. Combining advanced in-cylinder technologies, including a Bosch
flexible 1800-bar High Pressure Common Rail fuel system with Cummins
next-generation cooled Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) and Variable Geometry
Turbocharger (VGTTM), plus advanced exhaust aftertreatment technology, every
Dodge Ram pickup will comply with the 2010 NOx and PM emissions standards.
The advanced aftertreatment system includes a close-coupled diesel oxidation
catalyst, a NOx adsorber catalyst and a combined diesel
oxidation/particulate filter. The engine also incorporates a proprietary
closed crankcase ventilation (CCV) system to eliminate crankcase fumes and
"driveway drips." These advanced technologies require the use of Ultra-Low
Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) fuel in order to meet the tough 2007 and 2010
regulations.


notice 2 things.

--1 they (Cummins) said its a catalyst

--2 they mention the ULSD not LSD another point where you are wrong but hey
I'm not going bother you on this one, your having enough trouble with the
1st.

Now I have stated two of my many reputable sources for my statement that
what you are calling a Thermal Reactor is in fact a Catalyst. now show me
where I am wrong.

--
----------------------------
-Chris
05 CTD
06 Liberty CRD

Real Trucks don't NEED spark plugs.

 

I'll be seeing with this glass eye before that happens!!!!!<BFG>

I figure "Stupid" will do what he has always done when he post's BS info. He
will ignore you or will tell you that you are insecure or perhaps bore ya to
death about a dump truck, a old suburban or perhaps a race car. He sucks,
that's all there is to it.

 

Because it is a accepted term. A CAT has rare elements in it the
reacts with hot gas to convert the emissions passing thru it. These
same elements are destroyed quickly by high sulpher in fuel. A thermo
reactor helps burn and lower the suspended particulates that diesels
are famous for and are aways present. Why do you think the EPA ordered
sulpher out? It was so they could start putting true CATs on oil
burners and fully address the very high NOx and true grams per mile
emissons that they produce. (one diesel makes as much NOX as about 5
to 10 cars in grams per mile) The reason diesels appear clean is
because they have a high volume of air flowing thru them which dilutes
emissions and makes PPM low when actually grams per mile is high. Gas
engines have a much lower air flow thru them and at same PPM emit far
less grams per mile than a diesel. Diesels are finally going to have
to comply fully with emission requirements like gas engines have been
for over 30 years now. You will see diesel ratings decline in coming
years and economy suffer too as regs kick in because allow with
exoitic injection systems to limit NOx they will also lower CR and
boost to reduce NOx generation to begin with. Thye will either have to
get bigger (more displacment for same power with less boost) or see
ratings fade. Diesel have had a unfair edge in emissions for many
years and loop hole is finially closing and long overdue.