300C

[Nigel Matson]

Good news My Dealership has finally found a fully equipped 300C which I pick
up on Monday.

Now I can contribute to the great debates on form and function. Personally
I think it is a bold design with an awesome amount of power. Interior will
take a bit of getting used to but is certainly spacious.with an amazing
amount of adjustment in the seat, pedals and steering column.

Nigel

 

[MoPar Man]

Has the dealer invoice prices for any/all versions of the C been
published anywhere?

Good news My Dealership has finally found a fully equipped 300C
which I pick up on Monday.

How much did you pay? How tough was it dealing with the dealer? (did
you deal) ?

 

[RPhillips47]

Has the dealer invoice prices for any/all versions of the C been
published anywhere?

Try MSN Auto and Kelley Blue Book.

 

[MoPar Man]

Try MSN Auto and Kelley Blue Book.

I don't know if I believe this. I would have thought the markup to
MSRP would have been more like 10 or 12%, not 7 or 8%.

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/pricing.aspx?modelid=11136&src=vip#rebates

2005 Chrysler 300
Base Touring Limited C
Base Retail Price (MSRP) $22,970 $26,770 $29,265 $32,370
Base Invoice Price $21,513 $24,933 $27,228 $29,973
Destination Charge $625 $625 $625 $625
MSRP markup from invoice 6.8% 7.4% 7.5% 8%

Wow - not a lot of negotiating room with the dealer. Not a lot of
room for rebates or incentives either. This is take-no-prisoners
pricing.

Wasn't there a bigger difference between invoice and MSRP for the
M/M-special?

 

[Karen Baron]

I don't know if I believe this. I would have thought the markup to
MSRP would have been more like 10 or 12%, not 7 or 8%.

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/pricing.aspx?modelid=11136&src=vip#rebates

2005 Chrysler 300
Base Touring Limited C
Base Retail Price (MSRP) $22,970 $26,770 $29,265 $32,370
Base Invoice Price $21,513 $24,933 $27,228 $29,973
Destination Charge $625 $625 $625 $625
MSRP markup from invoice 6.8% 7.4% 7.5% 8%

Wow - not a lot of negotiating room with the dealer. Not a lot of
room for rebates or incentives either. This is take-no-prisoners
pricing.

Wasn't there a bigger difference between invoice and MSRP for the
M/M-special?

The "MSRP" is a phony number that really doesn't mean anything, except as a ploy
for dealers to claim that they are "discounting" to unsophisticated customers.

Even the invoice doesn't indicate what the dealer pays either, or with
customer's 'negotiation room.' The factory pays dealers money back,
off-invoice, in the form of holdback and factory-dealer rebates.

 

[MoPar Man]

The "MSRP" is a phony number that really doesn't mean anything,
except as a ploy for dealers to claim that they are "discounting"
to unsophisticated customers.

The MSRP comes from the factory and is (by law) displayed on the
"monroney" sheet affixed to the vehicle (usually the inside window).

Ideally, the manufacturer wants the dealer to charge the customer the
stated MSRP amount, and not have to resort to factory rebates to move
the product off the lot.

The MSRP serves the purpose of a starting point for negotiating a
price (at least it's the starting point the dealer would want to start
with, as opposed to starting at dealer invoice and working up).

Even the invoice doesn't indicate what the dealer pays either,

There is something called an advertising allowance that seems to be a
few hundred dollars per vehicle (maybe $500 max) that's supposed to
cover the dealer's cost to sell the vehicle.

The factory pays dealers money back, off-invoice, in the
form of holdback and factory-dealer rebates.

The holdback used to be 3% on Chrysler vehicles a few years go (not
sure if that's changed).

I think the holdback reflects the dealer's financing cost to buying
and insure the car and keeping it on the lot for, say, 90 days - which
means the longer a particular car has been sitting on the lot the less
of a chance you have to subtract the holdback from the invoice price
when you make an offer to buy. I'm pretty sure that the holdback
exists only for "the big-3" and not for Jap cars.

If you custom order a vehicle then the holdback is money in the
dealer's pocket so you should take that into account when negotiating.

When I custom orded a 2001 Ram, I factored in the holdback (about
$800), a $1750 factory rebate, and a $500 Chrysler coupon mailed to
existing customers.

 

[Karen Baron]

The MSRP comes from the factory and is (by law) displayed on the
"monroney" sheet affixed to the vehicle (usually the inside window).

Ideally, the manufacturer wants the dealer to charge the customer the
stated MSRP amount, and not have to resort to factory rebates to move
the product off the lot.

The MSRP serves the purpose of a starting point for negotiating a
price (at least it's the starting point the dealer would want to start
with, as opposed to starting at dealer invoice and working up).

Perhaps, but it is still largely a phony number that doesn't mean anything
useful. You really don't need to use it in negotiations and from the
consumer's point of view it is better not to. The MSRP does have
meaning in some states though, because they base their annual auto
property taxes on the original MSRP and depreciate based on that number,
not the actual original selling price or even current blue book value.

There is something called an advertising allowance that seems to be a
few hundred dollars per vehicle (maybe $500 max) that's supposed to
cover the dealer's cost to sell the vehicle.

The advertising fee goes back to the factory to cover their advertising
costs for the region. You may notice on some car ads that they say
something like "visit your southern california xxx dealer today!"
It's a way to itemize the costs of doing business and pass them directly
and separately to the consumer.

The holdback used to be 3% on Chrysler vehicles a few years go (not
sure if that's changed).

I think the holdback reflects the dealer's financing cost to buying
and insure the car and keeping it on the lot for, say, 90 days - which
means the longer a particular car has been sitting on the lot the less
of a chance you have to subtract the holdback from the invoice price
when you make an offer to buy. I'm pretty sure that the holdback
exists only for "the big-3" and not for Jap cars.

Nope. The holdback is to artificially and legally increase the invoice
price so that the dealer has more leverage when showing the invoice price
to the consumer. Japanese manufacturers use holdback too, although it is
typically 2% plus dealer rebates.

 

[MoPar Man]

Perhaps, but it is still largely a phony number that doesn't mean
anything useful. You really don't need to use it in negotiations
and from the consumer's point of view it is better not to.

So the fact that some Mercedes has an MSRP of, say, $90,000 while a
300C might have an MSRP of $30,000 means nothing, and I should offer
to buy either at, say, $25,000 and have an equal chance of being
accepted?

Look. The maker of ANY widget has an MSRP that's very VERY carefully
computed based on many things (direct input costs, marketing costs,
size of the market, demand, supply, etc). They don't just choose a
bunch of random numbers and throw them on a price sheet (like you seem
to make it sound like).

Nope. The holdback is to artificially and legally increase the
invoice price so that the dealer has more leverage when showing
the invoice price to the consumer.

Nope. The holdback is not *added* to nor increases the dealer invoice
cost.

For example, if the dealer invoice on a car is $20,000, and the
holdback is 3% (or $600 in this case) then the dealer's "true" cost
(upon delivery) is $19,400. IF the buyer thinks (or knows) the
invoice is $20,000, and starts negotiating at that point, then he's
"giving" the dealer $600 to start with. The salesman will say that
he's got to put food on the table, and will want you to kick in at
least $500 above invoice, etc etc.

However, if that car is still sitting on the lot a few months after
the dealer "bought" it, then he's lost some money on it (his own
financing and insurance costs) so that the $600 "bonus" he got when
car rolled onto his lot has evaporated and his ownership costs for the
car are now closer to (if not equal to) the published dealer invoice
price.

 

[Karen Baron]

So the fact that some Mercedes has an MSRP of, say, $90,000 while a
300C might have an MSRP of $30,000 means nothing, and I should offer
to buy either at, say, $25,000 and have an equal chance of being
accepted?

You can do what you want, but the MSRP is a phony number, useful for
marketing purposes but not much else.

The negotiations would proceed based upon what you are willing to pay and
what the dealer is going to sell it for. What he will sell it for is
based on the profit he would make, which is based on what he effectively
pays for the vehicle, not the MSRP.

Look. The maker of ANY widget has an MSRP that's very VERY carefully
computed based on many things (direct input costs, marketing costs,
size of the market, demand, supply, etc). They don't just choose a
bunch of random numbers and throw them on a price sheet (like you seem
to make it sound like).

Incorrect for cars. The MRSP has nothing to do with such costs. It is
just a number they make up, if anything it is based on "perceived value"
but has nothing to do with what the car costs to make or what the dealer
pays for it.

Nope. The holdback is not *added* to nor increases the dealer invoice
cost.

I'm afraid you misunderstood what I wrote.

For example, if the dealer invoice on a car is $20,000, and the
holdback is 3% (or $600 in this case) then the dealer's "true" cost
(upon delivery) is $19,400. IF the buyer thinks (or knows) the
invoice is $20,000, and starts negotiating at that point, then he's
"giving" the dealer $600 to start with. The salesman will say that
he's got to put food on the table, and will want you to kick in at
least $500 above invoice, etc etc.

However, if that car is still sitting on the lot a few months after
the dealer "bought" it, then he's lost some money on it (his own
financing and insurance costs) so that the $600 "bonus" he got when
car rolled onto his lot has evaporated and his ownership costs for the
car are now closer to (if not equal to) the published dealer invoice
price.

I'm not sure where you are getting your information from. A family member
owns a car dealership, so I was trying to offer information based on how a
real dealer works.

By the way, the best way to get the best price for a car is to forget the
MSRP, and even forget the invoice price. Solicit dealers in your area to
bid on the car meeting your specifications.

 

[MoPar Man]

You can do what you want, but the MSRP is a phony number, useful
for marketing purposes but not much else.

Ask your relative (who owns a dealership) if the Dealer-Invoice to
MSRP ratio is constant across what-ever cars they sell.

I'm afraid you misunderstood what I wrote.

Then please clarify what you said.

Is the holdback deducted from what the dealer pays?

By the way, the best way to get the best price for a car is to
forget the MSRP, and even forget the invoice price. Solicit
dealers in your area to bid on the car meeting your
specifications.

It's not worth a salesman's time to play that game. You think you can
get a bunch of them from different dealerships into the same room and
fight each-other over a single sale? No way. You think you're gonna
be able to play that game over the phone? No way. You're gonna get
pretty tired shlepping across town telling each dealer that the other
dealer just gave you a lower price.

Best way is to know roughly (or exactly) what a dealer pays for a car
and start from there. Especially if the car you want is on his lot.
Any incentives or discounts are factored in _after_ you've negotiated
a price.

Now, all the above assumes that you're paying cash for the car. If
you want the dealer to hook you up with a financing deal then that's
an added dimension to the negotiations and I have no idea if things
like monthly payments or APR financing rates are up for negotiation or
not.

 

[Karen Baron]

Ask your relative (who owns a dealership) if the Dealer-Invoice to
MSRP ratio is constant across what-ever cars they sell.

It's not.

Then please clarify what you said.

Is the holdback deducted from what the dealer pays?

Holdback is paid from the factory to the dealer, typically on a monthly
basis.

It's not worth a salesman's time to play that game. You think you can
get a bunch of them from different dealerships into the same room and
fight each-other over a single sale? No way. You think you're gonna
be able to play that game over the phone? No way. You're gonna get
pretty tired shlepping across town telling each dealer that the other
dealer just gave you a lower price.

Nonsense. Typically you will deal with the fleet guy, not with a
salesman. Send the dealership a serious bid with your exact
specifications. Send to a bunch, not just one dealer. Fax is fine.

Best way is to know roughly (or exactly) what a dealer pays for a car
and start from there. Especially if the car you want is on his lot.
Any incentives or discounts are factored in _after_ you've negotiated
a price.

You're not negotiating what a dealer pays and you're almost certainly
never going to find that out. That's really not going to help you
negotiate the price that YOU want to pay anyway.

Now, all the above assumes that you're paying cash for the car.

I don't see how.

If
you want the dealer to hook you up with a financing deal then that's
an added dimension to the negotiations and I have no idea if things
like monthly payments or APR financing rates are up for negotiation or
not.

First negotiate a price. Then do any finance negotiations that you want
from the dealer. Never mix the two negotiations! Honestly you're almost
certainly going to find a better financing deal elsewhere than a dealer if
you don't want to pay in cash. An exception is when the factory itself is
offering a special finance deal, but even then it may pay to take the
cashback if available instead. Most "dealer financing" is provided by a
local bank for which the dealer gets a (substantial) kick back. You can
almost certainly do better, especially at say a credit union.

 

[MartianSand]

Now I can contribute to the great debates on form and function. Personally
I think it is a bold design with an awesome amount of power.

Interior will

take a bit of getting used to but is certainly spacious.with an amazing
amount of adjustment in the seat, pedals and steering column.

Yes if truth be told this car and the new 300 x concept are

the true Lady magnets...even Diana and Celine Cat-fight over this one

http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=6887&size=big&password=&sort=1&cat=515


3.8 or 5.7 liter v8 rwd and 8 person capacity