2005 Town and Country Steering Groan

You beat me to it!!!
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It would not be the first time that someone has overlooked something incredibly basic on troubleshooting a problem.

The poster said it only groans on slow speed turns when the engine is idling or a bit above idling. Never when the engine is higher RPM, or turning a smaller amount. Stop acting like a parts changer blindly following the factory recipies that you already know don't work, and start acting like a real diagnostician for a minute or two and use your head. Think about the conditions that are present in the first case and not present in the second case.

Ted
 
Bill Putney said:
Although there is some safety factor built in for a properly working system. People all the time put "underdrive pulleys" on the main crank to slow down all accessories without too much problem (though under worst-case driving conditions, there may be some noticeable sacrifices - battery droop if a lot of idle time, a.c. performance not optimum in stop and go, etc.). The factory has to design for worst-case conditions.
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Yes, but does this groaning either damage the steering or cause it to not work? If neither, then the problem is already going to be at the bottom of 500 other possible design defects that Chrysler already knows about, and that are more important because they do cause actual malfunctions. It might be that for example the minimum hydraulic pressure needed to assist the steering is, say, 80psi, and the assembly will groan if the hydraulic pressure is between 80-180psi and a resistance of 200 ft lbs is placed on the steering assist gears by the tires, and will not groan if the pressure is above 180psi with the same resistance. On investigation Chrysler discovered that the existing pully assembly will cause the pump to generate a pressure of 120psi at minimum engine idle, with 200 ft lbs of tire resistance, and that's good enough for them.

I don't know how you troubleshoot out-of-box problems but where I come from, when all standard attempts at fixing the problem have failed, if you still want to fix the problem then you start making hypothesises of what the cause is, and testing them out. When you do this you must assume that there are no restrictions on your hypothesis - that the most rediculous sounding hypothesis is possibly valid until proven wrong through real life testing - not armchair speculation. So far using this I've never found a problem that remained unsolvable and I've found solutions for a great many problems that everyone else who worked on them wrote off as unsolvable.. (I have found plenty where the solution required a human being trained to do something the correct way rather than the wrong way, and due to political factors, the human could not be retrained and so even though a solution to the problem was discovered, the solution was not put into effect and so the problem remained - but that is a different issue)

The obvious test would be to fabricate a smaller pully for the pump and see if it makes any difference. Not sit around arguing why it may or may not work without the bother of even testing it. Your starting to sound like an engineer!

Ted
 
funny thing glenn that pump fixed his van
he told me he had van to dealer 3 times and they could not fix it it's time you look for that tool and see how many more power steering issue's you will correct instead of hiding behind tsb's and star center crap because you are not taking care of the customer
 
philthy said:
funny thing glenn that pump fixed his van
he told me he had van to dealer 3 times and they could not fix it it's time you look for that tool and see how many more power steering issue's you will correct instead of hiding behind tsb's and star center crap because you are not taking care of the customer
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Your fix was merely just removing the old fluid and putting new fluid in. The cust bought a P/S pump that you sold him for no reason at all
 
then why did the dealer do 2 flushes with no results! because not all things can be fixed from a flush or bought in a can
 
ummm. if that were the case why not just improve the pressure relief valve in the pump? I would think a heavier spring would be cheaper then adding a pulley. It has nothing to do with pressure from the pump.

Glenn
 
damnnickname said:
ummm. if that were the case why not just improve the pressure relief valve in the pump? I would think a heavier spring would be cheaper then adding a pulley. It has nothing to do with pressure from the pump.
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OK, next time you have a vehicle come in with a worn out oil pump that is not making enough oil pressure, instead of replacing it with a new pump, why don't you just replace the pressure relief spring in the worn pump? According to your logic this ought to make the worn oil pump produce a higher pressure. Let's see how long the mains last then?

Stop acting like a parts changer and use your head - a moments thought and you would have realized that putting a stronger spring on the pressure relief valve on a weak oil pump isn't going to increase pressure.

The reports are that groaning doesen't happen at higher engine speed, please, make a hypothesis that answers the question of why groaning happens at low engine speed but not at high engine speed, and that doesen't involve pressure changes in the fluid system.

Ted
 
you said putting a bigger pulley on the system may do it!!!So how will a bigger or smaller pulley help out a worn pump too??? I said if that were the case why wouldnt they just install a heavier spring... dont change things around again.

Glenn
 
OK, so is the consusnes that no body know's how to fix this? Is it parts replacement, or is a flush. Has anything really worked? Its getting worse especially in the mornings, in the cold. That's when it happens the worst. and its only when turning to the right.
 
97CamryLEnewbie said:
OK, so is the consusnes that no body know's how to fix this? Is it parts replacement, or is a flush. Has anything really worked? Its getting worse especially in the mornings, in the cold. That's when it happens the worst. and its only when turning to the right.
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If you do not have a leak causing this to happen and the fluid if full the first thing to do is have the fluid flushed (this is for the grind noise,). If the groan/shudder/moan at slow speed parking lot maneuvers is present Chrysler said to have the power steering cooler replaced with the latest updated part. If the shudder is still present, replace the rack.

Glenn
 
Glenn,
I've made an appt with a different dealer for the 15th. I have no leak and the fluid is full. I will see what they come up witih at that appt and let you know. Thanks for all your help. I hope they can fix it.
 
97CamryLEnewbie said:
Glenn,
I've made an appt with a different dealer for the 15th. I have no leak and the fluid is full. I will see what they come up witih at that appt and let you know. Thanks for all your help. I hope they can fix it.
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Ok, let me know
 
Hello All! Well I'm frustrated as hell. I've taken my wife's van to the
Cracksler (I call them that, beceause the answers they are giving me
are like they are on crack) dealership at least 3 times for this issue
and all I get is: "yes its a problem that Chrysler knows about and they
are working on a fix". When my wife turns into say the driveway or a
parking spot, there is a noticable groan coming from the front end. It
only happens when she's driving slow and turning, Never at freeway
speeds and never when driving straight. I keep getting the same line,
so I figured I would give this a shot to see if anyone else has this
issue. She has a 05 Town and Country with a 3.6L engine.
Click to expand...
 
Hello All! Well I'm frustrated as hell. I've taken my wife's van to the
Cracksler (I call them that, beceause the answers they are giving me
are like they are on crack) dealership at least 3 times for this issue
and all I get is: "yes its a problem that Chrysler knows about and they
are working on a fix". When my wife turns into say the driveway or a
parking spot, there is a noticable groan coming from the front end. It
only happens when she's driving slow and turning, Never at freeway
speeds and never when driving straight. I keep getting the same line,
so I figured I would give this a shot to see if anyone else has this
issue. She has a 05 Town and Country with a 3.6L engine.
Click to expand...
 
Hello All! Well I'm frustrated as hell. I've taken my wife's van to the
Cracksler (I call them that, beceause the answers they are giving me
are like they are on crack) dealership at least 3 times for this issue
and all I get is: "yes its a problem that Chrysler knows about and they
are working on a fix". When my wife turns into say the driveway or a
parking spot, there is a noticable groan coming from the front end. It
only happens when she's driving slow and turning, Never at freeway
speeds and never when driving straight. I keep getting the same line,
so I figured I would give this a shot to see if anyone else has this
issue. She has a 05 Town and Country with a 3.6L engine.
Click to expand...
 
Sorry, I am the echo. Still figuring out how to post here.

I also have a 3.8 2005 Town and Country. I have the exact same problem. It started at 10 months and about 9,000 miles. Groaning in the steering when backing out of driveway and turning to go up the street. Also noticible when slow turning, especially making u-turns. Developed external leak which resolved itself. (Was told by dealer it was a little transmission leak and they tightened something to stop it.) I am no mechanic, but it seemed odd to see transmission fluid on the ground near the inside of the right front tire.

At first sound only occured when turning right, then occasionally on left turns. They finally diagnosed an internal leak in the rack and pinion, but told me parts would not be available for several weeks. The external leak returned and I became afraid to drive it for fear of getting stuck somewhere, or possible failure

Dealer finally replaced rack and pinion at 25,000 miles . . .three weeks ago. When I rescued it from the dealership, it immediately made the same noise, except only during left turns. They said I needed to drive it for 200 miles to get the air out of the system. 1,000 miles later, it was still groaning. I took it back. They couldn't diagnose, so they took it to a local alignment shop for diagnosis then brought the car back to the dealership to supposedly replace the power steering pump. That was last week. No one from the dealership returns my calls.

I figure I may have to get an attorney to help me convince them to buy it back at this point. Frustration is not a strong enough word.
 
Sorry, I am the echo. Still figuring out how to post here.

I also have a 3.8 2005 Town and Country. I have the exact same problem. It started at 10 months and about 9,000 miles. Groaning in the steering when backing out of driveway and turning to go up the street. Also noticible when slow turning, especially making u-turns. Developed external leak which resolved itself. (Was told by dealer it was a little transmission leak and they tightened something to stop it.) I am no mechanic, but it seemed odd to see transmission fluid on the ground near the inside of the right front tire.

At first sound only occured when turning right, then occasionally on left turns. They finally diagnosed an internal leak in the rack and pinion, but told me parts would not be available for several weeks. The external leak returned and I became afraid to drive it for fear of getting stuck somewhere, or possible failure

Dealer finally replaced rack and pinion at 25,000 miles . . .three weeks ago. When I rescued it from the dealership, it immediately made the same noise, except only during left turns. They said I needed to drive it for 200 miles to get the air out of the system. 1,000 miles later, it was still groaning. I took it back. They couldn't diagnose, so they took it to a local alignment shop for diagnosis then brought the car back to the dealership to supposedly replace the power steering pump. That was last week. No one from the dealership returns my calls.

I figure I may have to get an attorney to help me convince them to buy it back at this point. Frustration is not a strong enough word.
 
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