2001 Caravan SE 41TE/41AE Tranny Reliability

I'm the original owner of a 2001 Caravan SE with the 3.3l engine and
the 4-speed 41TE/41AE transmission. The van has about 17,000 miles on it
and the 3/36 warranty will be expiring this September.

I've read a lot about what appear to be an above average number of
problems related to the 41TE/41AE transmissions and am wondering if I
should be considering an extended warranty. I haven't had any problems
with the tranny and plan on giving it its first fluid change around
20,000 miles. Also, I've noticed that my transmission _does_ have a
cooler on it. Have these transmissions gotten any better in the past few
years?

I have had a few other problems with the van that have been covered
under the warranty: the ignition pack got flakey and needed to be
replaced and the power window motor unit started failing in the driver's
door and was replaced.

I have never purchased an extended warranty on anything before, but
the Chrysler transmission stories have me a bit worried. Any input would
be appreciated!

Thanks, Michael J. Linden

 

What is your tolerance for an unexpected $1500-1800 transmission repair
bill? If you usually have that amount on hand for vehicular emergencies,
don't buy the warranty, and maintain the thing properly and regularly.
(This means watching those who do the work for you like a hawk, by the way.)
Otherwise, spring for the insurance, and rest easier.

There's nothing magic about a warranty policy. It's just like life
insurance, where you bet the insurance company you're gonna die before the
actuarial table says you're likely to. Your van's gonna die someday too.
With proper, regular maintenance and normal use, these transmissions can
last the life of the van--anywhere from 120-200K miles, depending. If
you're hard on it (towing, heavy right foot, casual about maintenance) it
will break sooner than you want it to. Really, it's more up to you than it
is a factor of the transmission's design. No, they're not as strong as the
big ol' transmissions put into V8-powered RWD cars. But they should be
strong enough, given proper care and reasonable use.

I broke my old '93's A-604 by beating the sh*t out of it and failing to
maintain it. I also was in a pinch one day and topped it off with the wrong
fluid. I got what I was asking for. There's a real lack of that sort of
honesty in the stories you read on the Internet.

When I got my current Intrepid with all its fancy gadgets, I bet on some of
them breaking, so I popped for a $1000 aftermarket warranty. It paid off in
two repairs; I've broken even. I consider myself lucky. If the trans pops
in the next 13K miles, I'll be way ahead. I don't think this one will.

--Geoff

 

They really were never as "bad" as you'd be lead to believe. There really
were never that many "hard" failures. alot of it was teething problems with
software and controller problems etc. and units being replaced out of
desperation or favors to valued customers. My 99 died "hard" metal etc. but,
had 150000 miles on it. Pretty heavy towing loads etc. Did I waant it too?
NO! Did I expect it? Sort of. It was an expense I didn't want but than how
long can anything last? Considering the stresses the vehicle alone puts on
them let alone the fact I drive quite hard AND tow I think it did as well as
anything could.
Larry

 

I am the original owner of a 2002 caravan. At 28,000 miles, I started
experiencing a hard downshift when decelerating. The front pump in the
trans had to be replaced along with a few clutches. Thank goodness it
was still under warranty. My question now is the 7yr/70,000 drivetrain
warrenty valid for all Dodge vehicles or does everything stop at
3yr/36,000? I may consider an extended warrenty because this trans was
repaired and not fully rebuilt. Who knows how long it will last.

 

who would you be getting this warranty from? How much would it cost?
Have you read the exclusions?

they do have computers on them now and maybe you could have the dealer
plug their scanner into the trans computer and tell you how well the trans
is running.

Ted

 

I believe they are much better now that at first. My 96 GV has 146,000
miles with absolutely no transmission problems. I change the fluid and
filter every 30-40,000 miles.

I bought an extended warranty when I bought the 96 van. It had 33,000
when I bought it so the standard warranty was almost gone. I'd heard
the rumors also and believed them then so I paid $400 or so for the
extended warranty. Never needed it.

I just bought a 2003 GC with 29,000 miles on it. It comes standard with
the 7/70 powertrain warranty so I didn't even need to think about
extending it. However, had it not come with that standard I would not
have paid the money this time for the extra warranty. I now believe
that the transmission horror stories are largely due to a few things:

1. Old tapes that people just keep on playing. I do believe Chrysler
had more trouble than usual with the electronic 4-spd at first, but I
think that was resolved 10 or more years ago. However, the beat goes on...

2. People that abuse their vehicles and don't maintain them properly.

Just my $0.02.


Matt

 

When I bought my 2003, I was told the warranty was standard and
transferable for the first time starting with that model year. However,
I haven't tried to confirm what the dealer told me. I have paperwork
that says I have powertrain protection for 7/70 and that is all I care
about. I don't think this was standard on the older models and
apparently it wasn't transferable either.


Matt

 

The trannies did improve in the late 90's, but it's still true that they
were designed for cars and not the heavier minivans. My '96 is on it's 3rd
tranny and it's always been maintained on schedule and is driven well within
the norm, i.e., no "abuse". I'm not sure what that means; when I was in
high school I had a buddy that would drive down an old country road at 45
mph and then put it in Reverse and hit the gas (smoke, spinning tires,
etc.). Now THAT was abuse! My wife drive pretty normal, maybe a little
fast when she's in a hurry. Mostly around town driving. Is that abusive?
It's harder on the tranny than straight freeway driving to be sure, but it's
certainly "normal" usage.

Fluid/filter changes are always done on schedule by the dealer. So am I an
old tape? or abusing my van? There's probably not a single Chrysler minivan
on the road from the early 90's that's on it's original tranny and that
hasn't been for several years. I believe the ratio is much better for
minivans from the late 90's. It's probably too early to say for the 2000+
minivans. These minivans use components designed for cars and they don't
hold up as well because of it.

 

Today I picked up my 1998 Town & Country after having to have the tranny
replaced at 78,000 miles. The bill is just under $2800 for a reman and
towing was another $83. I bought a Jasper reman at a little higher price
because it had a 75,000 mile warrenty instead of Chrysler's 36,000 miles. If
the Jasper man hadn't given me a "partial core allowance" the bill would
have been over $3,200.

There is a pin in/on the differential that can slip out of place. It goes
boom and puts a hole in the housing. Fluid then comes pouring out of the
bell housing, and you don't have a core for a replacement tranny. With a
core the bill would have been more like $2250. This has nothing to do with
any maintenance you do on the tranny, it can just happen. Clearly a faulty
design on the part of Chrysler.

I haven't had a chance yet to yell at Chrysler, but I doubt I'll get
anywhere. I don't know of any warrenty beyond the "Basic Warrenty" of
3yr/36,000, and also I didn't replace it with an OEM reman. Unless anyone
can tell me of any unpublished warrenty, I'm just screwed. On the same
morning that I got these numbers, I also found out my 13 year old needs
$3,500 in braces for his teeth.

Before this we were in love with our T & C. I also have a '95 Ply Voyager
that I drive everyday with 216,000 miles with original tranny & engine and
doing fine. I think they're the same trans.
After reading this you may need some kind of insurance to give you peace of
mind. The extra warrenty might be worth it. ...Catch49

 

I'm not a transmission designer and don't claim to be one on TV,
however, I don't understand this "it was designed for cars" theory.
Most specs I've seen for transmissions didn't include the weight of the
vehicle they were going into, but listed the torque that the
transmission was rated to handle. Torque is a function of the engine,
not the weight of the car. A 3.3L engine in a car will apply the same
torque as a 3.3L engine in a minivan. The only difference is that the
torque will need to be applied for a longer period of time to accelerate
the van to an equivalent speed, but this doesn't out any more mechanical
stress on the transmission. It can very well apply additional thermal
stress, but handling this is as much a function of the oil cooling
system as it is the fundamental design of the transmission. And unless
the temperature rise is extreme, the temp won't cause instant
transmission failure. The main detriment is it degrades the oil, which
is the main reason I change my oil at shorter intervals than even
Chrysler recommends.

To me abuse is making every start a full-throttle start. I see many
people who drive this way. This won't cause instant failure either, but
certainly adds thermal stress to the transmission and the clutches
during full-throttle shifts. Shifting into drive while still rolling
backwards in reverse. I see this in parking lots all the time. People
back quickly out of a parking spot and the next thing they are moving
forward without the brake lights so much as blinking. Using the
transmission to hold the vehicle in place on a hill waiting for the
light to change rather than using the brake. This can generate a lot of
heat in the torque convertor, especially on a nice hot day. Trying to
rock an automatic to get it unstuck in the snow and winding the wheels
up in one direction and then shifting into the other. Spinning on snow
and then hitting dry pavement with the wheels spinning at a high RPM.
I'm sure there are many other ways to abuse an automatic, but these are
some of the things I see on almost a daily basis.

Doesn't sound like you are abusing your transmission, at least not from
a maintenance perspective, but without seeing your driving habits I
can't comment on them. Also, I said above that I believe the early
editions of the transmission were more troublesome. My 96 is going
strong at 146,000 miles. That isn't early 90s, but it is now 8 years
old. Time will tell how long it lasts. I think my minivan has held up
very well for the most part. The main problems I've had have nothing to
do with car vs. van components. I'd say fully 80% of the problems with
my minivan have been electrical in nature (clock spring, rear blower
switch, wiper switch, rear windshield washer control, etc.). My van
still has the original suspension components, including the struts (I've
never had another vehicle go this long without needing new shocks or
struts), tie rod ends, etc. Even the sway bar bushings are original,
but they are in need of replacement now. The mechanicals of the van
have been very reliable. I've replaced the started, the water pump and
the idler pulley and that is about it. Even the exhaust system is still
original which is pretty good after 8 northeast winters.

The thing that amazes me is all these stories of people on their third
or fourth transmission, and who STILL own the vehicle! No way I'd keep
a vehicle that had experienced two transmission failures. And many
folks that say they've had such troubles go out and buy another Chrysler
minivan. To me this would be insane. So, I'll admit that I think many
of these stories are in the urban legend category. Nobody in their
right mind would keep a vehicle that is eating transmissions, or, even
worse, buy another of the same model.


Matt

 

do not confuse the 2001 van with the older ones, the trans in the 2001 is a
whole lot better built than the older models .

 

Well, for me, my '96 G. Caravan has had 2 mysteries. 1) The front brakes
2) The transmission

I'm not sure I know the real answer as to why I've had so much trouble with
either, but I do have theories. The transmission theory that says this
transmision doesn't handle the stresses of a minivan very well comes from
the transmission shop that fixed mine last month. He showed me their work
bench and there were 3 A604/41TE's lined up (one was mine). He gave me his
opinion about the tranny, which is that it's a tranny for a car put into a
minivan. Since I'm not a transmission expert by any means, I can only
choose to believe him or not. But I have heard the same opinion among
people in this ng. It works logically, but the truth is.... well .... a
mystery to me.

They didn't limit their comments to Chrysler. They said the Honda minivans
have the same problem and that the GM minivans (not the Astro, but the .....
whatever it's called) do too.

I wouldn't say we baby the tranny -- my wife is oblivious to it's existence
-- but the standard I use to measure wheather we are abusive is whether
we've had similar problems with the other cars/vans we've owned given that
we drive all our cars pretty much the same. I've phrased it before by
saying that I don't believe that our 41TE finally discovered our abusive
driving habits.. none of the others did!

Well, I'm embarassed to admit I still own this beast. Part of the problem
is we like the van. The other is that there's a state of denial one gets
into that says that NOW the problem is fixed and it won't break again. Now
that we're on the third tranny (original, first failure, second failure)
I've lost that sense of denial. It's over. I've got 2 years and 10 months
(or whatever the mileage currently is) left on the warranty and I won't have
the van past that.

 

Yes, it is instructive to read the Chrysler trans manual.

Chrysler has been tinkering with this transmission for at least 10 years,
trying to get
it stronger and more reliable.

Ted

 

Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've had no unusual problems with either
the brakes or tranny on my 96. My 03 is too new too tell. I know
several others with Chrysler minivans and I don't know a single person
yet who has had to replace a transmission. My front rotors were warped
when I first got my 96 GV, but I attributed that to abuse. The van had
33,000 miles on it in one year and had been used by a dealership as a
utility vehicle for parts running, etc. I replaced the rotors and pads
at around the 50,000 mile mark and have replaced the pads and surfaced
the rotors once more since then, but again nothing unusual for a vehicle
with 146,000 on it. I've had to replace front pads every 60-80,000
miles on every disk brake vehicle I've ever owned and this van is no
different. And I've never had an automatic transmission fail in any
vehicle I've ever owned, nor a manual transmission for that matter, nor
even had to replace a clutch.

Yes, I believe that all minivans have some higher than usual
transmission failure rates. I can only suspect that this is due to more
abuse for this type of vehicle and more heat generated and maybe the
transmissions don't have sufficient cooling capacity. I really don't
think it is a strength issue. Many have recommended getting the towing
package on the Chryslers to have extra cooling capacity and maybe that
is part of the answer.

I've always thought this was the best response to trouble like this.
Get rid of the vehicle and don't buy another one like it. And send a
letter to the company telling them why you aren't buying more of their
vehicles. The fact that Chrysler is still the best selling minivan
tells me that transmission troubles just aren't as big a problem as
people on usenet would like to have us believe. It if we, nobody would
buy them anymore and their sales would plummet. I bought a second one
because my first one has held up very well, other than electrical
problems as I mentioned before. However, they have been annoying to be
sure, but never left us stranded or anything serious like that.


Matt

 

Have they really made mechanical changes? Most of what I've heard
hasn't been related to strength, but to software, seals, etc. Do many
of them really drop parts into the pan?


Matt

 

Sure... mine lasted 6 months. The 96's lasted a year. So far the
03 is 13 months - looks like a winner!

 

Yes. Many of them. The trans computer alone has gone their 3 hardware
revs, let
alone the firmware revs.

In general the changes are able to be carried forward. So if your a trans
rebuilder who
is working with an old core, you can generally use the redesigned parts

I've never seen any in my pan.

Ted

 

You really hit on the crux of the issue with that last sentence. Its
not so much peak torque and shock loading (although that can break a
transmission, and even more likely the differential gears in minivan
transmissions), its the energy dissipated during shifts, and the average
torque being carried by the gear train. Both of those factors depend
more on the weight of the vehicle than on the peak horsepower or torque
of the engine. In other words, a 4-cylinder minivan is harder on
automatic tranny clutches ON AVERAGE than a 3.5L powered 300M, because
while the 300M can certainly dump a lot more energy into the clutch
packs on WOT acceleration than the 4-cylinder minivan, on AVERAGE the
minivan upshifts under a greater load than the 300M.

Whenver I look at the insides of an automatic- even a normally dead-nuts
reliable one like the 1969 A727 I have apart on my workbench right now
which is only there due to the incompetence of the last idiots that had
it open- I can't help but be amazed that such small components can
absorb and re-direct SO much torque and horsepower. And the 727 innards
are gargantuan compared to the friction area and gear sizes inside a FWD
tranny.

 

Parts of it definitely come down to a strength issue, the rest is energy
dissipation (heat). I used to know an engineer who worked at New Venture
Gear and I picked his brain on several occasions. Strength did not start
out as an issue when the '84 Caravoyager debuted and was a lightweight
true MINI van. But the vans have *seriously* porked up over the years.
Modern Town and Country vans come out with curb weights in the mid
4000s. That's the same general weight as my '66 Dodge Polara, and the
power to move the minivan is passing through clutches and gears that are
SUBSTANTIALLY smaller and weaker than the gears in the '66. When the LH
cars came out, a very different forming process was used to manufacture
the differential gears (net forming which is akin to a forging process)
in order to make the parts stronger than those in the minivans and
sideways-engine cars at the time. I don't know if they've revised the
gears in the minivans or not.

 

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 03:14:49 -0800, "Ted Mittelstaedt"

...

Not MY idea of "hardware changes". YMMV Same old POS tranny AFAIK.
But i'm only 13 months into the latest one so ICBW.