2000 T&C brake line broke.

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by NoName, Aug 10, 2005.

  1. NoName

    NoName Guest

    To be a bit more precise (not that I saw the problem/damage) I took the car
    to a shop to find out what happened/broke when my wife stepped on the brake
    pedal in a supermarket parking lot yesterday. The shop said they could get
    the part, (five day delay). The part that 'broke' is a flexible brake hose
    between two metal brake lines with one end going to the antilock brake unit
    attached to the engine, the other metal line going to the brake system.

    The private shop personnel were outrageously surprised, saying they had
    never seen THAT fail before. Anyway, the gist of the action was that
    evidently the shop couldn't reset the brake computer and clear the codes, or
    perhaps that Chrysler has some 'special/electronic' technique of flushing
    the brake lines (massive bleeding action to remover all air and replace all
    brake hydraulic fluid), which they either couldn't do, or can't accomplish
    since they don't have the proper tool.

    Does that make sense that Chrysler/dodge/plymouth 'gimmick' their automotive
    engineering in such a way that second party repair shops can't repair a
    vehicle and it MUST be taken to an authorized dealer to get the work done?

    My head is still spinning..
     
    NoName, Aug 10, 2005
    #1
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  2. NoName

    maxpower Guest

    I have seen that hose rust and break a few times and I believe it was due to
    undercoating/soundproofing that was sprayed on the vehicle after it left
    the factory. The soundproofing/undercoating trapped the water in the
    flexible casing and rusted it out causing the damage. The first experience I
    had was bleeding the brakes after I did a break job on the lift and it broke
    when the pressure was applied. There re two of those hoses together, I hope
    the other hose was inspected also
    Your car is equipped with Antilock brakes and yes it does take a special
    scan tool to bled the hydraulic brake assembly or the air will never get out
    of the system. If that shop has never seen that before they must not work on
    to many of these cars because that system has been there for at least 3
    years
    Its not a gimmick, its a procedure

    Glenn Beasley
    Chrysler Tech
     
    maxpower, Aug 10, 2005
    #2
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  3. NoName

    NoName Guest

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "maxpower" <>
    Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.chrysler
    Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 5:30 PM
    Subject: Re: 2000 T&C brake line broke.


    To be a bit more precise (not that I saw the problem/damage) I took the car
    to a shop to find out what happened/broke when my wife stepped on the brake
    pedal in a supermarket parking lot yesterday. The shop said they could get
    the part, (five day delay). The part that 'broke' is a flexible brake hose
    between two metal brake lines with one end going to the antilock brake unit
    attached to the engine, the other metal line going to the brake system.

    The private shop personnel were outrageously surprised, saying they had
    never seen THAT fail before. Anyway, the gist of the action was that
    evidently the shop couldn't reset the brake computer and clear the codes, or
    perhaps that Chrysler has some 'special/electronic' technique of flushing
    the brake lines (massive bleeding action to remover all air and replace all
    brake hydraulic fluid), which they either couldn't do, or can't accomplish
    since they don't have the proper tool.

    Does that make sense that Chrysler/dodge/plymouth 'gimmick' their automotive
    engineering in such a way that second party repair shops can't repair a
    vehicle and it MUST be taken to an authorized dealer to get the work done?

    My head is still spinning..

    ______________________________________

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    ==================================

    I have seen that hose rust and break a few times and I believe it was due
    to
    undercoating/soundproofing that was sprayed on the vehicle after it left
    the factory. The soundproofing/undercoating trapped the water in the
    flexible casing and rusted it out causing the damage. The first experience I
    had was bleeding the brakes after I did a break job on the lift and it broke
    when the pressure was applied. There re two of those hoses together, I hope
    the other hose was inspected also
    Your car is equipped with Antilock brakes and yes it does take a special
    scan tool to bled the hydraulic brake assembly or the air will never get out
    of the system. If that shop has never seen that before they must not work on
    to many of these cars because that system has been there for at least 3
    years
    Its not a gimmick, its a procedure

    Glenn Beasley
    Chrysler Tech

    ______________________________________
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    ==================================

    Thanks for the info.
    I will check and make sure BOTH the damaged flexible hose AND the other one
    is changed out. Won't cost the extra hose plus a bit more time to do that.
    I somehow get the uneasy feeling that the brake line bleeding is going to be
    a LOT higher than I am going to be happy about. Maybe I will be surprised.
    Who knows!!!! I don't think our van was undercoated. It seems that many
    consumer groups don't recommend the undercoating as it allows road salt,
    dirt and just plain water to get between the body/frame and the undercoating
    and possibly cause much more damage than the undercoating can prevent.

    Now here's another dumb question. IF some or a lot of brake fluid got on
    the driver caliper -- hence brake pad, would that necessitate replacing all
    four brake pads on the car? The reason I ask is that I just had front
    brakes replaced/redone about six months ago -- late last spring. There are
    only about 4,000 miles or so on the brakes since being replaced.

    The private shop I took the car too probably doesn't 'specialize' in brakes,
    and they can probably do 90% (wild guess?) of all brake work. Evidently
    Chrylser/dodge/plymouth is part of that 10% which requires special tools to
    thwart private garage type work.
     
    NoName, Aug 10, 2005
    #3
  4. NoName

    maxpower Guest

    The procedure with the scan tool is just a mater of pushing a few buttons to
    actuate the solenoids and pump to remove the trapped air.

    Maybe I will be surprised.
    I agree. The vehicles come from the factory with rust protection already on
    the vehicle, so the dealers that sell it now call it soundproofing, A total
    rip off as far as I'm concerned,
    That stuff has been known to do more damage once it is applied, it traps
    moisture and causes rusting at a faster rate
    How did the brake fluid get on the caliper if the hose that blew is under
    the drivers seat behind everything? And a small amount wont hurt anything,
    Wash it off with brakes clean. If it were a wheel cyl that blew out with a
    drum brake system I would replace the shoes due to total saturation of the
    linings. And no it wouldn't be necessary to replace all linings

    -- hence brake pad, would that necessitate replacing all
    I only work on Chrysler Products so I cant answer if the other Manufactures
    use this type system.
    It isn't made by Chrysler it is made by Bendix so there may be others out
    there using this application
     
    maxpower, Aug 10, 2005
    #4
  5. NoName

    NoName Guest

    I was just asking the question about the brake pad. I don't see any REASON
    for the brake pad to have gotten any fluid on it at all. BUT I can see that
    shop might tell me that it did, and that I would need to get new brake pads.

    Buts it worse than that. I got a phone call today that the master brake
    cylinder was leaking, and NO mention of the flexible tube having a hole it
    it. the trusted shop I took it too originally (and I called him back after
    listening to the voice mail to make sure) said the line/hose was broken, and
    that he didn't see any reason for the master brake cylinder to be replaced.

    So the plot thickens.
    Wow, I am just torn over the diagnostic fee I am going to PAY that didn't
    include the leaking HOSE, I am not so certain the brake cylinder is bad.
    Guess its time for a third opinion at a different Dodge/Chrysler 5 Star
    shop... my original shop says he sees no way the brake cylinder is
    involved... So there is a learning process for me.
     
    NoName, Aug 11, 2005
    #5
  6. NoName

    maxpower Guest

    So the brake line that they say was leaking isnt and now its the master cyl?
    Take your vehicle somewhere else, It sounds like the circus has just
    started selling tickets.
     
    maxpower, Aug 11, 2005
    #6
  7. This isn't true. The OTC Genisys scanner will bleed ABS brakes in the
    year vehicle you have. I am sure other scanners will also. Granted, the
    OTC tool isn't your $99 toy that you buy at Autozone, but it is not
    out of the question for a professional auto repair shop to purchase.
    And it is not manufactured by Chrysler or sold by them. For a time
    MAC Tools was OEMing the OTC scanners, I don't know if they still do, but
    you can call OTC and they will sell you one or send you to someone who
    will.

    Ted
     
    Ted Mittelstaedt, Aug 11, 2005
    #7
  8. NoName

    NoName Guest

    Hey, its more comical than THAT.
    The car has 76K miles on it,
    The 'report' that I received says i need to have "a fuel injection service,
    30K major maintenance service, trans fl uid flush (fluid is black) --
    Customer has decline d all repairs at this time."

    The major maintenance's have been performed, the money vacuuming of my
    wallet isn't needed, and the tranny fluid is red, and was changed at 35k and
    65K. I think the shop looked at some other car NOT mine. But its not there
    anymore. I paid my $29.32 and got it to a different Chrysler shop.

    Their is a recall on the heated leather seats, and boy, am i glad I didn't
    allow them to get started on THAT.
     
    NoName, Aug 11, 2005
    #8
  9. NoName

    NoName Guest


    Thanks,
    I just sometimes get the feeling that customers are looked at more as a
    'mark' than as a resource to be taken care of.
    well ahem, taken? .... LOL
     
    NoName, Aug 11, 2005
    #9
  10. NoName

    maxpower Guest

    I feel the same way every time I pay my electric bill or go to the doctors
    or fill my truck up with gas
     
    maxpower, Aug 11, 2005
    #10
  11. NoName

    NoName Guest


    So, there was another part rubbing against the brake line (flexible part)
    and evidently wore the metal thin enough to let the pressure blow out. Now
    I am being told that i still must replace the master brake cylinder, as it
    may have dirt, or the mbc may have been damaged as the brake fluid reservoir
    is dry, and i don't want to cause inadvertent damage to the antilock brake
    components. Oh Joy!!!

    I am doomed!!!
     
    NoName, Aug 12, 2005
    #11
  12. NoName

    NoName Guest


    Necessary evils?
    Or are we [consumers] just too easily turned like lemmings toward the sea???
    See my reply to myself about must replace master brake cylinder - mbc!
     
    NoName, Aug 12, 2005
    #12
  13. NoName

    Guest Guest

    I would flush the master thoroughly and try it, unless the cyl is
    inexpensive enough that the labout to do that would be half the cost
    of the master. The vehicle was not run long with no fluid, right???
     
    Guest, Aug 12, 2005
    #13
  14. NoName

    NoName Guest

    I ended up probably driving the vehicle approximately 18-20 miles from the
    time the line broke.
    all braking was done with the parking/emergency brake. There was NO braking
    with the brake pedal. Well, I should say that I sort of tapped on the brake
    pedal to make sure my son (who was following me) knew I was slowing down
    with the parking brake.

    And I decided to replace the master brake cylinder as well. I think I am
    being overly cautious but I don't want to mess up the antilock brake system
    with dirt/debris/air and have a greater expense. Its just a gouging. Sort
    of like $3.00 a gallon gasoline. Here we come!!!!
     
    NoName, Aug 12, 2005
    #14
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