2000 Concorde LXi Tranmission

Discussion in 'Concorde' started by John Gregory, Mar 6, 2005.

  1. John Gregory

    John Gregory Guest

    There seems to be a difference of opinion concerning the transmission fluid
    here. The service manual - based upon my driving habits - claims no change
    is necessary. The dealer claims - after checking the fluid - no change is

    I can understand the position one might take if they have changed fluid over
    the years with no incidence of trans failure. However, that fact alone -
    particularly in view of recommendation from the manufacture NOT to change -
    doesn't serve as proof that changing fluid prevents failure. The same
    results may have occurred without the changes.

    On the other hand, it may be like chicken soup as a remedy for the common;
    it can't hurt. That being the case...

    Q3) How do I get ALL the fluid out of the system if I drain it myself,
    check the magnet, and replace the filter?

    Q4) Do I need any "special" tools for any part of the job? (I don't think
    I did for the '95 Concorde I had)

    Q5) How much would be left in the system if I simply dropped the pan and
    drained? (Assuming the pan is the only thing I could drop reasonably)
    John Gregory, Mar 9, 2005
  2. John Gregory

    aarcuda69062 Guest


    Labor time is;
    diagnose 1.0 hrs
    replace input speed sensor .5 hrs
    replace output speed sensor .5 hrs
    aarcuda69062, Mar 9, 2005
  3. John Gregory

    aarcuda69062 Guest

    Only if one makes certain assumptions and/or jumps to conclusions.
    That would be up to an individual library system.
    On line, I doubt it.
    The dealer charged exactly what the labor guide calls for.
    Varies by region.
    aarcuda69062, Mar 9, 2005
  4. The manual has claimed "No fluid change is necessary" for decades now. It
    was OK to follow this suggestion in the days of the overengineered,
    bulletproof Torqueflite transmissions. With the electronic transmissions,
    it's difficult to change the fluid often enough.
    How lucky do you feel? Are you comfortable gambling the $2500 (plus or
    minus) repair cost on this academic bit of sophistry?
    You don't, if that's the procedure you use. But that's OK, 'cause you
    don't have to. The idea is fluid replenishment.
    Don't worry about it, see Q3.
    Daniel J. Stern, Mar 9, 2005
  5. John Gregory

    maxpower Guest

    The dealership I work at would have charged you 1 hr labor, In order to
    verify which part is bad you would have had to at least remove the
    connectors to perform the test, therefore half the work was already done.
    The book that AArcuda is referring too normally says test and replace, .5
    for each sensor. He would be charging you an overlapping time of 1.0 hr.
    ( 1.5 is an average labor price and as I said on the high side)

    Glenn Beasley
    Chrysler Tech
    maxpower, Mar 9, 2005
  6. John Gregory

    Bob Shuman Guest

    My answers to your questions are embedded below.


    This is indeed terue, but the early Chrysler FWD electronic transmissions
    experiencesd a lot of early failures and word of mouth in this group seemed
    to confirm that frequent changes coupled with additional fluid coolers
    helped improve the life. I still follow this even though the product has
    obviously been improved.
    Again, absolutely true. My philosphy has always been to do PREVENTIVE
    maintenance where ever possible. You and everyone else are free to do
    whatever you like.
    Again, I agree. It can't hurt if done right.
    I do not get all the fluid out. I just get what I can and let it drain
    overnight. I figure I get 5-6 quarts each time which is roughly speaking
    about half.
    No special tools needed: A 3/8" ratchet and appropriate metric socket, some
    extenders, possibly a swivel if there is a bracket in the way (I do not
    think there was one, but each vehicle was different), a gasket scraper or
    wire brush, some brake cleaner and a torque wrench to re-tighten the bolts.
    See comment above. I do this to get the gunk out of the pan as there is
    always residue there which I am assuming comes from the clutch material. I
    also do this to change the filter as well. This just seems like good
    practice to me as I would never change engine oil and leave in a dirty
    filter even though this is what the OM says to do every 7500 miles. (I
    change engine oil and filter religiously at 3K miles and have never had an
    engine failure of any kind in over 30 years of driving.)
    Bob Shuman, Mar 9, 2005
  7. John Gregory

    Bill Putney Guest

    Not true. The fact that, along with the limp mode, the speedometer was
    not working tells you with a fair degree of certainty that the output
    sensor was bad.

    I get the impression from some people that some dealers would not do
    certain work, like replace a sensor, without doing and charging for a
    diagnostic. Out of curiosity, if I walked into your dealership and said
    "I am pretty certain that my output sensor is bad. If I agree to pay
    your price for replacing the sensor and accept the possibility that that
    isn't the problem, will you replace the output sensor without charging
    me for a diagnostic test?" would they do that?

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    adddress with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Mar 10, 2005
  8. John Gregory

    Bill Putney Guest

    Correct. That's the beauty of the DIY non-power flush method. Combined
    with first dropping the pan to replace the filter, you then use the
    tranny's own pump to pump the fluid at normal rates out of the cooler
    return line. You get a 95+% fluid changeout, cleaned pan and magnet,
    new filter, and non of the risks of the power flush at minimum cost.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    adddress with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Mar 10, 2005
  9. John Gregory

    Bill Putney Guest

    That may be true. However, I have read on forums of DC dealers refusing
    to honor a warranty repair on a tranny because the fluid was not
    changed. When the customer complained that their driving meets the
    Schedule A conditions, the dealer claimed that they refuse to recognize
    that Schedule A driving is possible and that they consider Schedule B
    the only valid schedule - claim denied.
    Glad you asked. I posted this info. recently in another thread: "See
    this thread on the 300M Enthusiasts forum to see how it's done (300M and
    Concorde power trains and chassis are identical - in fact, the photos in
    my post in that thread show where I spliced the cooler return line on my
    Concorde for changing out the tranny fluid):

    Now - truth is, it is a dilution process, so it will never be 100% fluid
    exchange. But if you use, say, 12 quarts of fluid in the flush, the
    replacement will be 95+% complete (vs. 40% of a simple pan drop and add
    System holds slightly less than 10 qts. Dropping the pan ends up
    "wasting" 4 to 4-1/2 qts. You do the math. 8^)

    Another method that is between the method that I posted above and simply
    dropping the pan as far as effectiveness of fluid exchange is to drop
    the pan (replace filter), close it up , fill with new fluid, drive for a
    few miles, drop pan again, close up, fill with fresh fluid. WAG - about
    70 to 75% effective exchange of old/new fluid.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    adddress with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Mar 10, 2005
  10. John Gregory

    Bill Putney Guest

    $65 is about what you can get *both* sensors (combined) for, every day,
    all over the place. Thanks for posting all this stuff. It reminds me
    of a big part of why I do as much of my own work as possible.
    Yeah - "I like *this* mugger over here better than that one over there
    because this one only took my cash and not my credit cards too. I
    really respect him because when he stabbed me, he didn't twist the
    knife." 8^)
    Apparently as much as they want it to be. Let's see - 30 minutes work
    for $250 - I think that works out to about $500/hr. 8^)

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    adddress with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Mar 10, 2005
  11. John Gregory

    aarcuda69062 Guest

    Is that what they would have paid you Glenn, one hour?
    Misleading at best. There is more to the diagnostic than just
    checking the sensor.
    Did you check?
    Which labor guide did I use?
    Real Time?

    I suspect that you're BSing since that is not what the labor time
    guide describes.
    aarcuda69062, Mar 10, 2005
  12. John Gregory

    John Gregory Guest

    Just for the heck of it, I've drafted a letter to Chrysler with most of the
    comments made here (no names) concerning fluid change. I'm curious to see
    what Chrysler says. When I hear from them, I'll post the results.

    Thanks to all of you for the help and comments. I picked up a few pointers.
    John Gregory, Mar 10, 2005
  13. John Gregory

    maxpower Guest

    whats not true?

    The fact that, along with the limp mode, the speedometer was
    And yes if the cust only wanted the part we would have to install the part.
    The same as nrake work, if the cust doesnt want the rotors turned, we wont
    machine the rotors,
    There will be notes on the owners RO
    maxpower, Mar 10, 2005
  14. John Gregory

    maxpower Guest

    I wonder if you read the word normally in this statement?
    maxpower, Mar 10, 2005
  15. John Gregory

    maxpower Guest

    Good luck in getting a reply back from them
    maxpower, Mar 10, 2005
  16. John Gregory

    Bill Putney Guest

    Read the very next sentence I wrote. You said that to verify which part
    (I assume you mean input vs. output sensor), you have to run a
    diagnostic. My very next sentence (still below) says that the fact that
    the speeodmeter doesn't work when it goes into limp mode tells you that
    it's the output sensor. If the customer already told you that, then you
    are ripping him off by charging him to re-discover what he already told
    you that completely diagnoses it for you.
    Well good. So why do you perform and charge for a diagnosis when the
    customer already told you the work he wanted done and the diagnosis
    won't affect the outcome? That's like going to a doctor with a cut on
    your finger, and he won't sew it up until he takes photos of the cut and
    sends it off to a specialist to verify that it is indeed cut and that it
    needs to be sewn up. For goodness sake - sew it up and quit gouging the
    customer with bogus charges.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    adddress with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Mar 10, 2005
  17. John Gregory

    aarcuda69062 Guest

    Yes I did. Your use of the word "normally" suggests that on one
    day the page in the labor guide says one thing and on another
    day, it says something else.
    aarcuda69062, Mar 10, 2005
  18. John Gregory

    John Gregory Guest

    Oh I'll get one... guaranteed. I asked for the warranty service record on
    the '95 Concorde I bought used and they refused to give it to me saying it
    was "confidential" between them and the original customer. I gave them my
    explanation of why it was public record and they stuck to their guns. I
    wrote my Senator (Ohio) and gave my side of the argument. The file arrived
    about three weeks later. I'll get an answer. What I'm concerned about is
    getting a wishy-washy answer and that is something I can't fight
    successfully. "Gotta see the car"... "Each case is different." And they
    successfully skit the issue. We'll see what happens.
    John Gregory, Mar 10, 2005
  19. John Gregory

    Steve Guest

    Output speed sensor died or connection came loose.

    Without a valid output speed reading, the transmission controller
    assumes that the transmission is slipping and reverts to "limp" mode-
    you have 2nd gear and reverse, nothing else.

    as though I were stuck in first gear.

    Second gear, actually.

    .. Now I sit here
    Sensors are cheap. Probably $30 or so for the part, plus installation.
    Nothing inherent. Replace the sensor and get on with life.
    Steve, Mar 10, 2005
  20. John Gregory

    Steve Guest

    Let me play Karnac the Magnificent, and I'll predict the reply:


    Dear Mr. Gregory,

    Thank you for your letter concerning your DaimlerChrysler product. We
    appreciate your business and your concerns are important to us.

    Regarding your questions about transmission fluid change intervals,
    please refer to your owners manual. Follow the service schedule that
    corresponds to the way you use your DaimlerChrysler Vehicle.

    Please do not hesitate to contact us if we may be of help in the future.


    The problem is that your letter will go to some MBA/Marketing type, not
    to an engineer. Its that way at all car companies, which is why the rest
    of us hang out here to exchange more useful information.

    Although, I DID once mention on a new vehicle survey that my '73
    Plymouth had over 380,000 miles (at the time, now over 430,000 miles)
    and that I expected my wife's (then nearly new, now 220,000 miles) 93
    Vision to be at least that good or I'd be really disappointed. They sent
    me a nice cast aluminum "Chrysler 100,000 mile club" license plate
    frame. So at least they're good for something, although they should
    have given me 3.8 "100,000 mile" license plate frames :p
    Steve, Mar 10, 2005
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