2000 Concorde LXi Tranmission

Discussion in 'Concorde' started by John Gregory, Mar 6, 2005.

  1. John Gregory

    John Gregory Guest

    While cruising between 65 and 70 on the throughway this evening, my
    speedometer suddenly (and I do mean suddenly) dropped to zero. I felt a
    slight shift or hesitation and began looking at gages, suspecting the worst;
    nothing but the speedometer registered unusual and the car continued. I
    traveled about a quarter to a half mile, stopped at a station, checked the
    trans fluid and found nothing unusual. slight odor from the fluid but
    nothing like burnt fluid.

    I pulled out of the station and chose to drive side roads rather than turn
    back on the throughway; a wise decision. The speedometer continued to stay
    at zero and - although I must have been traveling no more than 35 to 40
    miles an hour, the RPMs exceeded 2000; as though I were stuck in first gear.
    After traveling about half a mile, the transmission light came on ( I assume
    that's what it was despite my failure to find a similar picture in the
    service manual). I continued to drive with that light on for another quarter
    of a mile to half mile then shut off the car as soon as I found a safe place
    and called a tow truck. It was towed to a Chrysler dealer. Now I sit here
    shuddering about the call I expect Monday morning;$$$$.

    What are likely root causes of this problem? My '95 Concorde had the
    transmission replaced at 25000. I was "assured" the trans problems were
    corrected. Now another Concorde five years younger - with only 55000 -
    starts sputtering in the drive chain. What the hell's the mater with these
    components? Or could this be an electrical issue.like a computer module of
    some sort? And what's my likelihood of getting Chrysler to pick up at least
    half the tab?
    John Gregory, Mar 6, 2005
  2. John Gregory

    maxpower Guest

    Your out put speed sensor quit on you, have the dealer replace both sensors
    on this trans, the Input and the Output speed sensor, the two parts should
    cost about $65.00 and I wouldn't expect to pay more then 1.5 labor for the

    Glenn Beasley
    Chrysler Tech
    maxpower, Mar 6, 2005
  3. John Gregory

    John Gregory Guest

    I never thought I'd be pleased to hear my car needed repair but that's what
    happens when you expect a $2500 bill and learn it's gonna' cost less than
    $200. I appreciate the help. A few more questions:

    Q1) That indicator light. Is that something that gets triggered by
    transmission fluid heat but needs to shut off by a mechanic. In other words,
    it goes on automatically but not off automatically.

    Q2) Are these parts that are readily accessible without tampering with the
    transmission itself - like something bolted onto the housing or somewhere
    else in the engine?

    Q3) I have a manual and am mechanically inclined. I'm also retired and not
    readily inclined to slide under my car for very long. An Hour and a half may
    be too long.
    John Gregory, Mar 6, 2005
  4. It's on because the computer isn't seeing proper signals from the output
    speed sensor.
    They are indeed accessible from the outside, without disassembling the
    Which manual do you have? It must be a FACTORY manual, not a Haynes or
    Chilton, etc., or you are wasting your time and risking injury and/or
    Daniel J. Stern, Mar 6, 2005
  5. John Gregory

    John Gregory Guest

    I've got the official factory service manual from Chrysler. Will the light
    automatically go out when the parts are replaced? If those parts are on the
    outside, I have trouble understanding what risk of injury or damage might
    occur. But then... I haven't looked at the manual yet for this operation.
    When I think about it though, it's a moot point. The car is at the
    dealership, I'd have to tow it about two miles (assuming I shouldn't drive
    it as is), then I'd have to get the parts Monday and make the repair in the
    rain followed by snow (northern Ohio). Bunk! I'll just let Chrysler do it
    and be guided by what I'm told here. I'm acquainted with the service manager
    (he's help give me advice on various things I've done myself) and he seems
    to be fair. If I let him know Monday that I seem to have my finger on the
    problem that should help keep the labor where it ought to be. I assume the
    1.5 is what "the book" (what IS that book called that gives you guys the
    expected time of repair?) calls for.

    I appreciate all the help.
    John Gregory, Mar 6, 2005
  6. John Gregory

    Bill Putney Guest

    Here's a How To linked from the 300M Enthusisats Club web site (300M has
    identical power train and chassis as Concorde) - tells you everything
    you need to know including diagram showing location of sensors:

    You'll need the front end or the left front up on jack stands - you'll
    be reaching in to the center of the vehicle from the left side - you'll
    be on the ground on your back. To access one of the sensors, you may
    need either an open end or deep well (1"). Regular socket (1") will
    work for the other one (sensor is shorter, and less obstructions). 20
    minute job.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    adddress with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Mar 6, 2005
  7. John Gregory

    Bill Putney Guest

    Shop rate book.

    20 minute job for a DIY'er. They'll probably charge you the 1.5 hours -
    one of the costs of having "professionals" do it.

    BTW - you might want to visit and consider joining the 300M Enthusiasts
    Club: http://300mclub.100megs42.com/

    Their forums: http://300mclub.100megs42.com/forums/index.php

    Also www.dodgeintrepid.net forums.

    All 2nd gen. LH cars are 95+% mechanically the same. There are no good
    Concorde forums, so those are the places to hang out.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    adddress with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Mar 6, 2005
  8. John Gregory

    Megan Simms Guest

    To expand on what others have said, a transmission speed sensor failed. There
    are two such sensors, one that measures input shaft speed and one that measures
    output shaft speed. In your case, we know that it was your output sensor that
    failed, because of the failed speedometer indication.

    Because the TCM (transmission control module) wasn't receiving normal readings,
    it went into a preprogrammed (limp home) mode that locks the transmission in 2nd
    gear, hence your high tachometer reading. This protects the transmission and
    allows you to still drive, all though with great care and at slow speed.

    These sensors are known to fail for some reason. I'm not sure if newer sensors
    will last longer, or if sensors manufactured before some data are not prone to
    failure. However they are readily available (many models use the same sensors
    and dealers tend to keep a bunch in their stock) and not excessively expensive.
    It is an easy do it yourself repair with the caveat that you need to be able to
    get under the car (sensors are accessed from under the transmission on the right
    (driver) side and a factory service manual is important. You may wish to
    replace the nearby input sensor too, although I don't have any evidence to
    suggest that the new sensor would be any better. The input and output sensors
    have different part numbers with a slightly different socket to prevent them
    from being reversed. These are hall effect sensors.
    Megan Simms, Mar 6, 2005
  9. John Gregory

    Megan Simms Guest

    I believe what you saw was the "check engine" light which illuminates whenever a
    fairly serious trouble code is stored by the computer. Some more serious
    conditions will also cause the light to flash instead of being on steady.

    The light should go out after the computer detects the problem has not
    reoccurred after a period of time. If the dealer does the repair they may be
    able to reset it with their scan tool equipment. You can also view some trouble
    codes by turning the ignition ON three times repeatedly (don't start the engine)
    and watching the odometer display. This won't get all codes but it often can
    give you the more serious ones. Consult the FSM for their meanings.
    Megan Simms, Mar 6, 2005
  10. John Gregory

    maxpower Guest

    In you case it set due to a fault code with the output speed sensor, If you
    put the part on yourself it will see the problem is fixed and will turn it
    off. after a few few trips. Or a scan tool will reset it.
    On the left side outside of trans.
    It wouldnt take an hour and a half, but you would have to raise at least the
    left side of the vehicle
    maxpower, Mar 6, 2005
  11. John Gregory

    maxpower Guest

    Daniel Stern had a car he couldnt fix a few years ago and got into a deep
    mess with the owner so he blamed the after market manual for that. That is
    what he meant when by the comment below

    But then... I haven't looked at the manual yet for this operation.
    1.5 labor I said was on the high side.
    maxpower, Mar 6, 2005
  12. I'm not certain -- the manual will contain this information.
    The reference was to the many errors and grossly incorrect procedures
    present in Haynes and Chilton manuals.
    "Flat-rate manual".
    Daniel J. Stern, Mar 6, 2005
  13. John Gregory

    Steve B. Guest

    You should have no problem driving the car home a few miles from the
    dealership if you want to fix it yourself. The trans is locked in
    second gear so accelerate slowly and don't go excessivley fast. The
    input sensor failed on my sisters car a while back and she was at the
    dealership less than 30 minutes total to get it replaced.

    Steve B.
    Steve B., Mar 6, 2005
  14. John Gregory

    Art Guest

    Also have the dealer change the AT fluid since it got very hot.
    Art, Mar 7, 2005
  15. John Gregory

    TNKEV Guest

    Sounds like a speed sensor shouldn't be too big of a bill.
    TNKEV, Mar 7, 2005
  16. John Gregory

    John Gregory Guest

    Welp... here's the outcome; $205.00! Replaced both sensors and billed me for
    2 hours labor. Told me there was no need to worry about the transmission
    fluid; new, improved and designed to withstand the temperatures of hell.
    They also did a safety bulletin repair for two seat bolts so they got paid
    by Chrysler for that as well.

    Did I get rooked?
    John Gregory, Mar 9, 2005
  17. John Gregory

    maxpower Guest

    Yup a little steep with the labor
    maxpower, Mar 9, 2005
  18. John Gregory

    Bill Putney Guest

    Yeah - I'd like to get paid for 2 hours for 30 minutes work. Where do I
    sign up! I'd at least tell them to knock it back to book rate - and ask
    them to explain why they take that long to do a 30 minute job.

    You really should change the fluid and filter regardless of what they
    say. Every 80k miles would be reasonable. DIY for cost of fluid and
    filter and 2 hours time, and get a thorough changeout of fluid in the
    bargain - not less than half from a pan drop.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    adddress with the letter 'x')
    Bill Putney, Mar 9, 2005
  19. John Gregory

    Bob Shuman Guest

    I have 4 of these same/very similar Chrysler electronic transmissions in a
    1991 Mitsubishi 300GT (130K miles) 1996 Eagle Vision (75K miles) , 1999 T&C
    Minivan (64K miles), and 2001 Dodge Intrepid (40K miles). I have dropped
    the pans and changed all these vehicles transmission fluid (use the correct
    ATF+3/4 fluid) and filter on 30-36K mile intervals and all are still
    performing just like when they were new. I am still amazed at the shift
    quality in the 14.5 year old 3000GT every time I drive it! I know that
    dropping the pan does not get all the fluid, but believe that this approach
    is much better than the "power flush" recommended at the dealer. I
    personally have seen the gunk in the trans pan and the filings on the magnet
    and know these will not come out using the power flush method. I also
    believe in replacing the filter since it can only clog and restrict fluid
    pressure over time.

    With regard to the speed sensors, I doubt both were actually defective.
    From what you had described, I would have guessed the output sensor was bad.
    I've replaced three of these over the years on the vehicles listed above and
    previous Chryslers as well. About two years back the part cost me about $25
    or so dollars at the local dealer. Access was a breeze if you can get under
    the vehicle and it took about 10 minutes to remove the electrical connector
    , unscrew the part using a simple wrench and then screw in the replacement
    and re-connect the connector. I personally do not see the value in the
    price you paid, but then again, you might not have the tools or the
    inclination so $200 to fix it may well be worth it to you.

    Bob Shuman, Mar 9, 2005
  20. John Gregory

    John Gregory Guest

    Out of curiosity, I phoned another large Chrysler dealer to get an estimate
    of this repair. $249! If the part costs $65 and they billed by "the book",
    that means labor runs $122.66 and hour. Can this be right?

    Q1) Is there a book available at the library - or on line - that will give
    standard time for all repair jobs?

    I think it would be wise to be armed with this information before agreeing
    to a repair... not that I'm complaining about mine. I may have been clipped
    a little but the dealership has been fair with me in the past. And... if his
    competitor is any guide, my dealer actually gave me "a break".

    Q2) What is the going hourly rate for a Chrysler dealership repair these
    John Gregory, Mar 9, 2005
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