2000 Concorde LXi Tranmission

While cruising between 65 and 70 on the throughway this evening, my
speedometer suddenly (and I do mean suddenly) dropped to zero. I felt a
slight shift or hesitation and began looking at gages, suspecting the worst;
nothing but the speedometer registered unusual and the car continued. I
traveled about a quarter to a half mile, stopped at a station, checked the
trans fluid and found nothing unusual. slight odor from the fluid but
nothing like burnt fluid.



I pulled out of the station and chose to drive side roads rather than turn
back on the throughway; a wise decision. The speedometer continued to stay
at zero and - although I must have been traveling no more than 35 to 40
miles an hour, the RPMs exceeded 2000; as though I were stuck in first gear.
After traveling about half a mile, the transmission light came on ( I assume
that's what it was despite my failure to find a similar picture in the
service manual). I continued to drive with that light on for another quarter
of a mile to half mile then shut off the car as soon as I found a safe place
and called a tow truck. It was towed to a Chrysler dealer. Now I sit here
shuddering about the call I expect Monday morning;$$$$.



What are likely root causes of this problem? My '95 Concorde had the
transmission replaced at 25000. I was "assured" the trans problems were
corrected. Now another Concorde five years younger - with only 55000 -
starts sputtering in the drive chain. What the hell's the mater with these
components? Or could this be an electrical issue.like a computer module of
some sort? And what's my likelihood of getting Chrysler to pick up at least
half the tab?

 

Your out put speed sensor quit on you, have the dealer replace both sensors
on this trans, the Input and the Output speed sensor, the two parts should
cost about $65.00 and I wouldn't expect to pay more then 1.5 labor for the
job.

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

 

I never thought I'd be pleased to hear my car needed repair but that's what
happens when you expect a $2500 bill and learn it's gonna' cost less than
$200. I appreciate the help. A few more questions:

Q1) That indicator light. Is that something that gets triggered by
transmission fluid heat but needs to shut off by a mechanic. In other words,
it goes on automatically but not off automatically.

Q2) Are these parts that are readily accessible without tampering with the
transmission itself - like something bolted onto the housing or somewhere
else in the engine?

Q3) I have a manual and am mechanically inclined. I'm also retired and not
readily inclined to slide under my car for very long. An Hour and a half may
be too long.

 

It's on because the computer isn't seeing proper signals from the output
speed sensor.

They are indeed accessible from the outside, without disassembling the
transmission.

Which manual do you have? It must be a FACTORY manual, not a Haynes or
Chilton, etc., or you are wasting your time and risking injury and/or
damage.

 

I've got the official factory service manual from Chrysler. Will the light
automatically go out when the parts are replaced? If those parts are on the
outside, I have trouble understanding what risk of injury or damage might
occur. But then... I haven't looked at the manual yet for this operation.
When I think about it though, it's a moot point. The car is at the
dealership, I'd have to tow it about two miles (assuming I shouldn't drive
it as is), then I'd have to get the parts Monday and make the repair in the
rain followed by snow (northern Ohio). Bunk! I'll just let Chrysler do it
and be guided by what I'm told here. I'm acquainted with the service manager
(he's help give me advice on various things I've done myself) and he seems
to be fair. If I let him know Monday that I seem to have my finger on the
problem that should help keep the labor where it ought to be. I assume the
1.5 is what "the book" (what IS that book called that gives you guys the
expected time of repair?) calls for.

I appreciate all the help.

 

Here's a How To linked from the 300M Enthusisats Club web site (300M has
identical power train and chassis as Concorde) - tells you everything
you need to know including diagram showing location of sensors:
http://theswampbbs.com/300m/Servicestuff/speedsensor.htm

You'll need the front end or the left front up on jack stands - you'll
be reaching in to the center of the vehicle from the left side - you'll
be on the ground on your back. To access one of the sensors, you may
need either an open end or deep well (1"). Regular socket (1") will
work for the other one (sensor is shorter, and less obstructions). 20
minute job.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

Shop rate book.

20 minute job for a DIY'er. They'll probably charge you the 1.5 hours -
one of the costs of having "professionals" do it.

BTW - you might want to visit and consider joining the 300M Enthusiasts
Club: http://300mclub.100megs42.com/

Their forums: http://300mclub.100megs42.com/forums/index.php

Also www.dodgeintrepid.net forums.

All 2nd gen. LH cars are 95+% mechanically the same. There are no good
Concorde forums, so those are the places to hang out.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

To expand on what others have said, a transmission speed sensor failed. There
are two such sensors, one that measures input shaft speed and one that measures
output shaft speed. In your case, we know that it was your output sensor that
failed, because of the failed speedometer indication.

Because the TCM (transmission control module) wasn't receiving normal readings,
it went into a preprogrammed (limp home) mode that locks the transmission in 2nd
gear, hence your high tachometer reading. This protects the transmission and
allows you to still drive, all though with great care and at slow speed.

These sensors are known to fail for some reason. I'm not sure if newer sensors
will last longer, or if sensors manufactured before some data are not prone to
failure. However they are readily available (many models use the same sensors
and dealers tend to keep a bunch in their stock) and not excessively expensive.
It is an easy do it yourself repair with the caveat that you need to be able to
get under the car (sensors are accessed from under the transmission on the right
(driver) side and a factory service manual is important. You may wish to
replace the nearby input sensor too, although I don't have any evidence to
suggest that the new sensor would be any better. The input and output sensors
have different part numbers with a slightly different socket to prevent them
from being reversed. These are hall effect sensors.

 

I believe what you saw was the "check engine" light which illuminates whenever a
fairly serious trouble code is stored by the computer. Some more serious
conditions will also cause the light to flash instead of being on steady.

The light should go out after the computer detects the problem has not
reoccurred after a period of time. If the dealer does the repair they may be
able to reset it with their scan tool equipment. You can also view some trouble
codes by turning the ignition ON three times repeatedly (don't start the engine)
and watching the odometer display. This won't get all codes but it often can
give you the more serious ones. Consult the FSM for their meanings.

 

In you case it set due to a fault code with the output speed sensor, If you
put the part on yourself it will see the problem is fixed and will turn it
off. after a few few trips. Or a scan tool will reset it.

On the left side outside of trans.

It wouldnt take an hour and a half, but you would have to raise at least the
left side of the vehicle

 

Daniel Stern had a car he couldnt fix a few years ago and got into a deep
mess with the owner so he blamed the after market manual for that. That is
what he meant when by the comment below


But then... I haven't looked at the manual yet for this operation.

1.5 labor I said was on the high side.

 

I'm not certain -- the manual will contain this information.

The reference was to the many errors and grossly incorrect procedures
present in Haynes and Chilton manuals.

"Flat-rate manual".

 

You should have no problem driving the car home a few miles from the
dealership if you want to fix it yourself. The trans is locked in
second gear so accelerate slowly and don't go excessivley fast. The
input sensor failed on my sisters car a while back and she was at the
dealership less than 30 minutes total to get it replaced.

Steve B.

 

Also have the dealer change the AT fluid since it got very hot.

 

Sounds like a speed sensor shouldn't be too big of a bill.

 

Welp... here's the outcome; $205.00! Replaced both sensors and billed me for
2 hours labor. Told me there was no need to worry about the transmission
fluid; new, improved and designed to withstand the temperatures of hell.
They also did a safety bulletin repair for two seat bolts so they got paid
by Chrysler for that as well.

Did I get rooked?

 

Yup a little steep with the labor

 

Yeah - I'd like to get paid for 2 hours for 30 minutes work. Where do I
sign up! I'd at least tell them to knock it back to book rate - and ask
them to explain why they take that long to do a 30 minute job.

You really should change the fluid and filter regardless of what they
say. Every 80k miles would be reasonable. DIY for cost of fluid and
filter and 2 hours time, and get a thorough changeout of fluid in the
bargain - not less than half from a pan drop.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

I have 4 of these same/very similar Chrysler electronic transmissions in a
1991 Mitsubishi 300GT (130K miles) 1996 Eagle Vision (75K miles) , 1999 T&C
Minivan (64K miles), and 2001 Dodge Intrepid (40K miles). I have dropped
the pans and changed all these vehicles transmission fluid (use the correct
ATF+3/4 fluid) and filter on 30-36K mile intervals and all are still
performing just like when they were new. I am still amazed at the shift
quality in the 14.5 year old 3000GT every time I drive it! I know that
dropping the pan does not get all the fluid, but believe that this approach
is much better than the "power flush" recommended at the dealer. I
personally have seen the gunk in the trans pan and the filings on the magnet
and know these will not come out using the power flush method. I also
believe in replacing the filter since it can only clog and restrict fluid
pressure over time.

With regard to the speed sensors, I doubt both were actually defective.
From what you had described, I would have guessed the output sensor was bad.
I've replaced three of these over the years on the vehicles listed above and
previous Chryslers as well. About two years back the part cost me about $25
or so dollars at the local dealer. Access was a breeze if you can get under
the vehicle and it took about 10 minutes to remove the electrical connector
, unscrew the part using a simple wrench and then screw in the replacement
and re-connect the connector. I personally do not see the value in the
price you paid, but then again, you might not have the tools or the
inclination so $200 to fix it may well be worth it to you.

Bob

 

Out of curiosity, I phoned another large Chrysler dealer to get an estimate
of this repair. $249! If the part costs $65 and they billed by "the book",
that means labor runs $122.66 and hour. Can this be right?

Q1) Is there a book available at the library - or on line - that will give
standard time for all repair jobs?

I think it would be wise to be armed with this information before agreeing
to a repair... not that I'm complaining about mine. I may have been clipped
a little but the dealership has been fair with me in the past. And... if his
competitor is any guide, my dealer actually gave me "a break".

Q2) What is the going hourly rate for a Chrysler dealership repair these
days?