1997 LHS Alarm and Electrical issues...

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by G.Focker, Sep 4, 2006.

  1. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    What I ended up having to do was plug the connector in and start the
    car... then shut the car off as the actuator motor moved into the
    position I needed it to be in. :)

    I worked for a brief period on getting the mode door actuator out this
    morning. I've got two screws out but am having a heck of a time with
    the screw closest to the front. I finally got the two screws out of the
    center floor heat adapter duct but there no room whatsoever to pull it
    out or away like the directions state because of the metal box (air bag
    controller?) below it and despite what the directions state the center
    support bracket refuses to be pried rearward to gain access to that
    specific screw. :-/

    I just find it interesting that both stall code seem to vanish after a
    single actuator was replaced.

    Thanks! I am sooo looking forward to putting the interior back
    together. I've got all the seats pulled and in the house where I
    scrubbed them to within an inch of their life over the last week. Look
    darn near "new" now - went from a dusty looking grey leather to a sharp
    black. :) Surprisingly no holes, tears or rips in the leather and
    only the slightest cracking along the outside edge of the front seats.

    Anyway, I don't think I'll be rushing to fix the AC at this point in
    case their are other mechanical issues that need attention first. I'd
    like to get all the fluids flushed and replaced for a start. is there
    anything I should do as far as the AC goes (or should I say, anything I
    should be doing to the system since I'll be running it without for a

    ....and on a completely unrelated note to the HVAC matters. When I got
    the car it had no relay for the cruise control. Looking at the socket
    where the relay goes, it doesn't look like there was one in there at
    the time of the flooding either. Is there ANY reason the owner might
    have removed this relay (other than not liking Cruise Control. lol) and
    does that relay control anything else?

    G.Focker, Sep 23, 2006
  2. G.Focker

    DeserTBoB Guest

    I don't know the leather quality of newer models, my the leather in my
    '86 Fifth Avenue have NO cracks and still feels like new! Of course,
    routine feedings with Lexol and a mink oil cleaner must've helped in
    that regard.

    Pick up some Lexol and give them a good soaking, and then wipe them
    down with a soft, dry terry cloth towel. They'll feel wonderful and
    won't crack anymore. Touchups on the cracking can be done with
    colored boot polished chosen to match, available at any western tack
    and apparel shop. Melatonin seems to have the widest choice of
    colors. The dye in the polish will cover the white of the leather and
    provide some protection, as well. Just be sure to buff it out after
    it dries!
    DeserTBoB, Sep 23, 2006

  3. save your breath, Boob- they all killfiled you, you're a troll- no one
    is replying to you anymore


    you've been OUTED, with prejudice !

    duty-honor-country, Sep 24, 2006
  4. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    Yup, Lexol is what I've been using as well.

    What's been hard to find is something for the vinyl/plastic in the car
    that doesn't go on shiny and greasy. Eagle One seems to make a decent
    product I just picked up today called "Nano Protectant".
    Dries to a deep satin, rather than glossy, look.

    Thanks for the tip!

    G.Focker, Sep 25, 2006
  5. G.Focker

    DeserTBoB Guest

    Sorry, John. I seem to remember now that melatonin is a
    neurotransmitting enzyme in the human nervous system. The brand name
    of the boot polish is "Meltonian!" How's THAT for an odd mixup of
    DeserTBoB, Sep 25, 2006
  6. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    That would be it... It was just a thought on my part, as knowing that it
    was down there, I want you to be aware of it...
    Thank you for the effort. I haven't had the opportunity to inquire about
    one as of yet. If you do come across one, let me know. What is the going
    rate for those things? There is actually a number of items I need that I
    haven't been able to come across.

    The local yard here is about worthless for anything. If they do have
    something, they charge an outrageous price for it. I believe it's about 50%
    of the price of a NEW item, price based on dealer price. I can go to a
    local auto parts store and get the stuff for a few dollars more, but at
    least it's new!
    FeMaster, Sep 25, 2006
  7. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    Yes, as stated a previous post, this is the airbag controller...
    Unfortunately, I can't provided any further advice here, as you are further
    along than I have ever been, so I have no advice about how or what to do in
    your current situation... :-(
    Agreed, very strange...
    The only issue that comes to mind is that the evaporator unit in the heater
    box in these vehicles has a very high failure rate. You may find that once
    you try to get the AC serviced, that that might be your weak point. If
    that's the case, you would have to tear out your dash again, but to a more
    advanced point, where you will need to physically remove the heater box in
    order to replace the evaporator...
    I don't know of any reason why this might have been pulled, unless the
    actual speed control unit was bad. I don't know of any other issues that
    would warrant this. And no, that relay is strictly for the speed control
    and nothing else.
    FeMaster, Sep 25, 2006
  8. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    Saturday, I ended up having to remove the screws from the carriage of
    the air bag controller and pull it down about half an inch and then it
    still took a further 30 minutes to convince that center floor heat
    adapter that it should give up it's cozy little spot and come free. I
    think it took another half an hour after that to slowly work the final
    screw out of the corner of the mode actuator. Once that was free the
    new one went into place in a matter of seconds before I had to spend
    another hour getting the screw and heat adapter back into place. I'm
    sure there would have been a tool somewhere to make it easier to get
    that screw out but it's all over with now and no more error codes.

    Yesterday I put all of the seats back in but for the front passenger
    and today I put the dash back together, finally, 3 weeks after tearing
    it apart when I started his adventure. Tomorrow, after I get the new
    tracks/motors on the passenger seat I'll bolt that into place.

    Then the car will go for a full mechanical check and we'll see if
    anything is lurking there. I, also, want to get all the fluids
    changed/flushed to be on the safe side.

    Yes, I've read about this issue. Assuming the evaporator is okay now,
    will going without the AC for a while affect it negatively? It'd
    certainly be wiser to fix the AC now than wait and have a much higher
    bill later, if that's the case.

    I'm not sure I want to advance any further into that dashboard. LOL I
    might have gone to the half way point but tearing the second half of
    that dash out would probably drive me over the deep end. :p

    Okay, we'll just have to file that under 'trivial mystery' and see if
    any oddity comes up. I had a relative once that had her Cruise
    fuses/relays pulled because she was irrationally scared of the feature
    and didn't want anyone else using it in her car, either. :p

    Thanks for all your help, so far. It's been quite a resource in dealing
    with a few of these issues.

    I don't suppose you have the removal/install instructions for the door
    latches in the driver side doors (front and rear)? The driver door
    seems dead and I can hear the rear passenger door latch just spin when
    I push on the electric lock switch. This is my final electrical issue.

    G.Focker, Sep 26, 2006
  9. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    Great news... As long as it works correctly now, you will be all set...
    There would be no problems that I'm aware of. Only issue would be that the
    you would be missing out on the drying effect of AC when you use the
    defroster. Not much of a loss in my opinion.
    I hear you! I've done a heater core before on my '86 Dodge Lancer. It's
    the same relative setup. You have to remove the heater box to change it.
    Differences were, you loosened the dash on one side, detach it on the other.
    Drop the steering wheel down, and swing the passenger end out. Pluses were,
    no airbags to deal with, and fewer electrical wires and connections.
    Minuses, one solid dash (not split like LH line,) Lots of vacuum lines
    (vacuum controls doors), I forget what else...
    Kinda odd... LOL
    Not a problem... Your scans are in the mail! Only scanned stuff for front
    door trim removal. Rear door is basically the same, but easier...
    FeMaster, Sep 26, 2006
  10. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    Yeah, it's been ages and ages ago but as I recall she was kind of odd
    all the way around. :-D

    Thanks! The one part I'm confused about is the connector for the power
    window switch panel. In the Intrepid/Concrdes/etc the switch plate is
    removable from the driver side of the panel and you can disconnect the
    the connector before removing the panel itself. In the LHS this switch
    plate seems to have screws holding it in from the inside of the panel.

    G.Focker, Sep 27, 2006
  11. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    I never replied to this, as I could not find the info I was looking for. I
    have now found it, and provide accurate data...

    The sensor on the back of the mirror only deals with the mirror, and has
    nothing to do with the auto headlamps. There are three wires going to the
    mirror, Power, Ground, and a feed from the reverse lights. There is no
    communication between the BCM and the mirror in order for your theory to be

    According to the service manual, the Sun Sensor is what controls when the
    BCM turns on and off the headlights when in the auto mode. Below is a quote
    from the service manual:

    "The Ultralight system turns the instrumentation and exterior illumination
    lamps ON when the ambient light levels are low and OFF when light levels are
    high. Ultralight is controlled by the Body Control Module (BCM). [SNIP]
    Ambient light levels are monitored by the BCM using the automatic
    temperature control system Sunload Sensor, located on the top of the
    instrument panel cover. [SNIP]"
    FeMaster, Sep 27, 2006
  12. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    I've only had the drivers side apart once of my vehicle, no other doors. If
    I remember correctly, I had just pulled the panel off, and there was enough
    slack in the wire harness to allow me to disconnect the plugs on the trim
    panel. If memory serves my right, there were a total of 4 plugs, mirror
    switch, window switch, door light, and speaker. I pulled the speaker
    (though not required) prior to removing the panel, so I didn't have to worry
    about that one.

    When I removed the panel, I was unaware that the switches cold have been
    removed prior to the panel, so I never did. I was still able to disconnect
    them once the panel was removed/loosened. I don't think there is any other
    way around it for your vehicle.

    There is a small section which covers variations between the main setup (in
    Intrepid, Vision, and Concorde), and the LHS and New Yorker. There is no
    mention of any variances with the door procedures, with the exception of the
    removal of the stationary glass in the rear windows, which I believe the LHS
    and New Yorker have, and the others don't.
    FeMaster, Sep 27, 2006
  13. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    That's quite weird. In the '94 LHS that I got my 'new' ATC from,
    someone had taken the window switches from the driver door. In the
    process they had pulled off that plate/cover and broken it. I could see
    the screw posts in the rear of the panel where it had been connected.

    G.Focker, Sep 28, 2006
  14. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    Another small issue here but I think I can guess the solution...

    When setting the headlights to Auto, they will come on and stay on even
    in daylight. I'm getting no error codes from the BCM or the ATC at this
    point so assume the sun sensor is functioning fine. When I replaced the
    BCM it came from a 97 Intrepid, which I *think* did not have the
    Auto-headlight feature. The BCM itself had the same model # as the one
    out of my LHS, however.

    Do I assume correctly in thinking that this is something the dealer
    simply needs to 'switch on' as an option in the BCM?

    G.Focker, Oct 4, 2006
  15. G.Focker

    Ken Weitzel Guest

    Hi John...

    FeMaster and I disagree on what device "triggers" the lights on/off;
    but I'm pretty sure that we'll agree that whatever it is thinks it's
    dark enough for headlights long before us humans do... :)

    And it's pretty heavily damped... driving out of an underground
    parking lot (where of course they come on) into full heavy
    sunlight takes quite a while before they turn off...

    Take care.

    Ken Weitzel, Oct 4, 2006
  16. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    While we do disagree on this, I'm only going by what the service manual and
    the wiring diagrams in the manual tells me. This also correlates to what I
    have read in other forums, such as those at DodgeIntrepid.Net. Here's a
    "How-To" the mentions it:

    While I'm not sure what type of vehicle you own, it may be possible that
    your vehicle does use the sensor on the mirror, however, everything I have
    come across points to the '93 to '97 LH-series vehicles using the SunSensor.
    FeMaster, Oct 4, 2006
  17. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    I'm pretty sure that there is no option in the BCM to "turn on" the feature.
    I believe the feature is always present, and only needs the proper wiring to
    make it work.

    Does the SunSensor have a clear view of the outside? It's been said before
    that if the windshield wipers don't "park" in the proper location, that they
    will block the sensor's view. Service manual also states that the sensor
    needs to stick up from the dash approximately 1/4 of an inch in order to
    function properly.

    I don't have any specific testing data for the sensor. It is located in the
    "Body Diagnostic Manual", which I'm certain I do not have. (Would take some
    digging to know for sure, packed away in a box if I do).
    FeMaster, Oct 4, 2006
  18. G.Focker

    Ken Weitzel Guest

    Hi FeMaster...

    Love a good debate :)

    Have a like brand new loaded to the hilt 94 lhs, btw.

    From one of the 3rd party manuals (93-97) which I hope is
    fair use:

    "The sun sensor is used only on vehicles equipped with the Automatic
    Temperature Control (ATC). The sensor is mounted"...

    And after some obvious, just to confirm your other message, in bold

    "The sun sensor must protrude approximately 1/4 inch above the
    instrument panel top cover. This will ensure proper operation."

    However, I'm old, long retired, with lots of time, so as soon as
    we (Winnipeg, Canada) get a nice bright sunny day with a good
    bit of thermal loading, I'm going to do some experiments
    involving the sun sensor, the mirror sensor, and a big chunk
    of heavy black cloth, and will be happy to share the results :)

    Take care.

    Ken Weitzel, Oct 4, 2006
  19. G.Focker

    Joe Guest

    I don't have it either. I can say the sun sensor is pointed at the sky, but
    mine doesn't work any better than yours. I have two LHS's, and neither one
    can tell daylight from dark. I don't think it's unusual.
    Joe, Oct 6, 2006
  20. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    Interesting... One would assume they left the factory working
    properly... is there, perhaps, something in the sensor itself that
    might degrade over time and cause the expected action to fail?

    I haven't had much time to play but the sun sensor does indeed seem to
    have a clear view and I did have it out in bright sunlight without any
    effect last weekend. It's been raining and cold most of this week
    though so no time to investigate further with it. :(
    G.Focker, Oct 13, 2006
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