1997 LHS Alarm and Electrical issues...

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by G.Focker, Sep 4, 2006.

  1. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    Thanks Ken,

    that is interesting. I assume it depends on how they use that 'common
    wire'. If they were all daisy chained off one another then it's quite
    possible one fault could kill everything down the line.

    G.Focker, Sep 18, 2006
  2. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    No, they do not... The Recirc door functions and I can hear it but the
    air does not move from one vent to the next like it should.

    Are the actuators sitting sort of diagonally/one behind the other in
    the center of the car? I pulled a 5 wire connector from what I thought
    was the temp/blend door and it looked surprisingly clean, like no water
    had gotten to that but I can't see the connector for the mode door.
    If it's the actuators themselves that are bad, I think I've tracked
    down both, used, for $20.

    G.Focker, Sep 18, 2006
  3. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    Luckily, I knew what I was getting into...and even more thankfully,
    there's no smell in my car at all. I suppose the fact that it wasn't a
    submerged car and that it had new carpets/padding replaced as soon as
    it happened (plus it's 2 years after the fact) make a big difference.
    I, also, assume the time frame has a lot to do with it.. There a big
    difference between a car that was flooded for a week or more vs one
    flooded for a day or two.

    G.Focker, Sep 19, 2006
  4. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    Okay, there's 3 rows of numbers on the PLR
    It says:
    ASSY NO.

    4687146 B
    69832C 1297

    and then engraved in the black plastic case is:

    I'd done it for 10-20 minutes the first day but left it disconnected
    for an afternoon yesterday and came back to 23,24,32,32 but no 36! So
    that's some improvement.
    I believe that is correct. I pulled a 5 wire connector from what I
    think is the Blend/Temp actuator and it looked clean. At one point
    previously, when using the original ATC I'd also gotten an error 35
    relating to the Evaporator Sensor (though that error has since
    disappeared). All those items share the grey/tan wire according to the
    diagram, IIRC, but not sure if that means anything.
    I checked that out and it looked clean as a whistle. I think it may
    actually be sitting above where the water line was in the car.

    G.Focker, Sep 20, 2006
  5. G.Focker

    Joe Guest

    If they didn't move during diagnostics, they may be bad. Those actuators
    contain feedback to the computer built in. If you replace that assembly then
    you'll get everything new, so that should fix either problem of not moving
    or not talking.

    It's possible to R&R those without disassembling much of anything, but of
    course it's not fun. You can do it, though.
    Joe, Sep 20, 2006
  6. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    Thanks for the numbers... I'll see what I can come up with for that!
    Good sign! That points, almost definitely, to trouble with the actuators
    themselves, as we now know that the ATC is working, as the code 36
    (communication to the BCM) has been resolved..
    According to the wiring diagram I have, the Grey/Tan going to the Evap Temp
    Sensor is not tied into the Grey/Tan wires going to the other sensors. I'm
    not saying that that's the case, as the book has proven to be wrong before.
    What I see is the Temp sensor going through the 10-way connector, and them
    straight to the BONE (natural) connector on the BCM. The Grey/Tan from the
    other sensors (Blend, Mode, ATC in-Car, Sun) are just linked together to
    each other... I'm not sure about this one, according to the wiring, this
    is right for the standard controls, but I can't see how that would be
    correct for the ATC unit??

    Anyway, sorry it took so long, but I've got a few scans for you. Wiring
    diagrams, and a couple images of the heater box to help you locate the two
    actuators. I'm guessing you have found one of them. To help in
    identification, the wire colors are as follows:

    I'm wondering where you'd like to acquire the image files? I know your
    Gmail account will hold them, just wondering if the one in the header of
    your messages is valid. If so, I'll ship them off to you for your viewing
    pleasure :)
    FeMaster, Sep 20, 2006
  7. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    Good luck! if you can't come up with anything let me know and I'll see
    what I can find.
    I found a lone scan from a 1994 LHS tech manual showing the layout and
    it *seems* like they are indeed all tied into the same grey/tan wire
    when using the ATC only. Granted, I'm not a great decipherer of wiring
    diagrams but it does seem to be the case at least for the 1994 model.

    Yes, that's more or less just a "garbage collecting" address and I
    don't use it much for real correspondence but go ahead and send them
    there and I'll be sure to check it. At least I know there is plenty of
    space in that box. :)

    Thanks again!

    G.Focker, Sep 20, 2006
  8. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    Images have been sent. If there is anything else you need besides those,
    let me know...
    FeMaster, Sep 21, 2006
  9. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    Looks great, thanks! it's much appreciated. The only thing I need now
    is the patience to get under there and change them. :) If I'm lucky,
    my replacement actuators will arrive Friday and I'll slap them in
    Friday evening. Assuming all goes well then my in-dash electrical work
    will be complete, I think.

    G.Focker, Sep 22, 2006
  10. G.Focker

    DeserTBoB Guest

    So, assuming the actuators fix the last defect, you essentially have a
    new car, electrically at least.
    DeserTBoB, Sep 22, 2006
  11. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    Actually, I do have a question... When installing the 'new' actuator I
    note that the shaft must be positioned the same as the old one. The
    question is, how do I do this? I can't seem turn the shafts by hand, is
    it safe to use a tool to manually turn it?

    G.Focker, Sep 22, 2006
  12. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    Are you referring to manually turning the actuators or the shafts

    I wouldn't try to turn the actuators. If they are the same or a similar
    build inside them as the recirculation actuator, they have a worm gear
    inside, and won't turn by hand. You'd end up breaking some teeth on the
    gears inside.

    I can't see why turning the shafts would be a problem. If they are that
    stiff, maybe the actuators aren't the problem at all, maybe the doors
    themselves are stuck... This would be a bad situation... I'll try to check
    for some internal views of the heater box, and get back to you...

    If the shafts for the doors are metal, maybe try a pair of pliers or
    something on them, but I wouldn't put too much force it for fear of breaking
    something inside. It's possible that if the shafts are metal, the may have
    rusted, and are now kind of seized in their plastic mounting holes... Just
    speculation on my part, but a possibility...

    One other thing you might want to try... If you have both actuators (or
    even one I guess) removed, plug the wiring harness back into them and try
    running the diagnostic test again. This would definitely tell you if the
    motors are bad. If they move freely on their own, you just might have stuck
    doors, which would be a much worse problem.... The only reason I am
    thinking this is that you had codes for both that indicate that they were
    "stalled", which could mean that they are functioning, but the doors
    themselves won't move. Hope not!
    FeMaster, Sep 22, 2006
  13. G.Focker

    Ken Weitzel Guest


    One of his error codes in a previous message translated to "stalled".

    Just thinking out loud if that's not perhaps indicating a seized-up

    Take care.

    Ken Weitzel, Sep 22, 2006
  14. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    The actuators was what i was referring to... I haven't actually made it
    out to the car yet today. I just noted in the removal instructions
    that you should match mark the position because the new ones need to be
    installed in the same position. Which didn't make much sense to me if
    you can't move the new actuator to the same position. (shrug)

    I haven't made it that far and I would hope this not to be the case. :)

    Well, i would *think* that you WOULD get a stalled error if the motor
    is not moving, wouldn't you? I can imagine having a working actuator
    and then getting a error for a stalled door but would it even be
    possible to have a defective actuator and still have a moving door?

    G.Focker, Sep 22, 2006
  15. G.Focker

    Joe Guest

    You're right. That's what the message is for, but we're hoping it's really
    the actuator itself, because it's going to be a major PITA to get into where
    those doors are.
    Joe, Sep 23, 2006
  16. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    As an update, I've replaced the Blend/Temp Door Actuator tonight. The
    door apparently moves fine now and I went from errors 23,24,32,33 to
    only getting an error 24!

    I shall tackle the Mode Door Actuator tomorrow and hopefully rid myself
    of that final error. I'm having trouble getting to this one though as I
    don't seem to have a tool to remove the front screw from the center
    floor heat adapter ducting. It's in a place that seems inaccessible for
    all of my tools. :-( I'll have to come up with something new but my
    back couldn't bear anymore floor time tonight.

    After that, I guess the dash can be pieced back together. Is there
    anything else I should be doing under the dash (checking, preventative
    maintenance, etc) before closing her back up?

    G.Focker, Sep 23, 2006
  17. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    As mentioned in my other msg, I've got one of the actuators replaced
    (Blend/Temp) and am now down just to error 24. The door/shaft is
    apparently all plastic, btw.

    G.Focker, Sep 23, 2006
  18. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    Unfortunately not. With the worm gear, you won't be able to turn it, except
    by applying power to the motor portion. That is why I was figuring that you
    would need to align the shaft itself, or perhaps slide the actuator onto the
    shaft as far as you can, and then physically turn the actuator unit to line
    up with the screw holes, thereby turning the door shaft at the same time.
    I just wasn't sure how exactly the codes worked. I wasn't sure if you would
    automatically get a stalled code at the same time as a feedback error code.
    It didn't seem to make sense to me to get a stalled code if there was a
    feedback error, as without the feedback, the computer wouldn't know if it
    was stalled or still working. I just assumed that in order for a stalled
    code to set, the computer would need the feedback circuit to function so it
    would know that the actuator/door wasn't moving...

    Oh well, at least based upon your other post, you eliminated the other
    codes, so this is definitely a good sign. Once you get the other unit
    replaced, you should be all set, with the exception of the AC. Good luck,
    hope it all goes well once the other is changed out.
    FeMaster, Sep 23, 2006
  19. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    Do you have any issues with the airbag light coming on? If a portion of
    your BCM managed to be under water, then your airbag controller most
    certainly was... This unit is mounted under the center area of your dash.
    It has probably been in your way the entire time you've been trying to
    change out those actuators...

    Just a thought, as you don't want an issue with that. If it gets crusty
    inside, they may not go off, or even perhaps go off unexpectedly while your
    going down the road! OUCH!
    FeMaster, Sep 23, 2006
  20. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    Is that what the metal boxy thing is in the center bottom with the two
    connectors? I was wondering what that was as I hadn't seen reference to
    it yet but given one of the connectors was yellow thought it might be
    related to the air bag system.

    Ouch, indeed! I checked the connectors and they looked fine. Otoh,
    virtually all the connectors have been exceptionally clean even when
    the components themselves were damaged. However, no problems with the
    light in either case. I think the car must have been flooded just long
    enough to short circuit random items but not long enough for any
    measurable corrosion to set in. I'd, also, always heard that wiring
    tends to become brittle and easily broken when it's been under water
    but all the wiring in my LHS is quite flexible and clean.

    I was in a salvage yard earlier pulling the seat tracks/motors from a
    9x New Yorker and, frankly, it's under dash area was just as dirty as
    my car started out as and it didn't have the excuse of a flood!

    I *DID* check to see if it had the Park Lamp Relay for you but, alas,
    it did not. it didn't even have the alarm/ATC or premium BCM or I would
    have come out of there with a bag like Santa Claus. :-D

    G.Focker, Sep 23, 2006
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