1997 LHS Alarm and Electrical issues...

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by G.Focker, Sep 4, 2006.

  1. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    Yeah, it was a flood vehicle... He's trying to resurrect it...
    FeMaster, Sep 7, 2006
  2. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    Excellent! I see that in my previous reply I didn't need to give you the
    details, as you already have them... :) Now maybe you can help me...
    What's the best way to get at this without pulling the whole dash out like
    you have done?? :)

    FeMaster, Sep 7, 2006
  3. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    Yes, this is a flood vehicle - from the Marietta/Macksburg Ohio flood
    in September 2004. Water got part way up the lower dash between the
    radio and ATC. A salvage yard cleaned it up, replaced carpet, etc but
    didn't touch the electrical issues and then it sat in someone auto
    garage for 2 years.

    Luckily, other than a bad BCM, it's all been tracking down and
    replacing relays at this point to get major systems working.
    G.Focker, Sep 7, 2006
  4. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    I imagine if you stick your head under the drivers side dash you might
    be able to see this sucker peeking out. It's attached via a screw to
    the same spot where a plug holds the lower corner of the fuse box in
    place. I haven't removed mine yet but it looks like you can just
    unscrew it, unclip it and be off with it.

    G.Focker, Sep 7, 2006
  5. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    Yes, I've noticed this. Looks like you can get a rebuilt one for $59
    plus shipping.
    From what someone else said, it sounds like all the motors are on a
    frame that can be detached from one seat and re-attached to mine. I
    still find it horribly "coincidental" that all the same motors died on
    each seat, leaving the same working motor behind (forward/backward).
    I'm not surprised they would be water damaged but what are the odds of
    them being damaged in exactly the same way? :)
    G.Focker, Sep 7, 2006
  6. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    Yeah, I've just read a small section in the manual that deals with that. It
    does appear that they can be swapped out as a unit...

    That does seem a little strange... Maybe you should see if you can access
    the wiring harness that plugs into the back of the control unit on the side
    of the seat. Maybe the controls are crusty, and for some reason it just
    happens that the ones that aren't working are the same for both sides, maybe
    something to do with the construction or something...

    If you pull the seat, I can give you pin continuity check data for testing
    the switch assembly... Might just save a little money if it turns out to
    the controls instead...
    FeMaster, Sep 8, 2006
  7. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    Sounds good... It's raining like mad today, and the garage is occupied by
    another "project", so it'll have to wait for another day... :)

    If you finally do get to it, and get it, grab the part number for me, as I'm
    sure that my vehicle won't have this relay. Probably doesn't even have the
    wiring for it.. Fun fun! Another wiring job at hand!
    FeMaster, Sep 8, 2006
  8. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    How's the repairs going. It's been a few days, thought I'd inquire...
    FeMaster, Sep 12, 2006
  9. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    Thanks for asking!

    Since I last wrote, I tracked down a Park Lamp Relay for $5 and
    installed it. Parking lights and dash lights now activate when turning
    on Auto headlights. I, also, tracked down an Amplifier for $18 to
    replace the one in the trunk - and the radio and all speakers function

    Earlier tonight I was playing around with the power seat switch to
    attempt to diagnose whether it's the switch or the motors that are
    defective. I'd come to the conclusion that it was the motors but when I
    plugged the connector back in, the seat back motor sprang to life. I'm
    now thinking it must be corrosion in the connectors so I'll attempt to
    clean those in the next day or so and see what happens.

    Meanwhile I have a rebuilt ATC on order.

    So, let's see...

    So far, working/replaced:
    several relays
    Auto Headlight/Park Lights
    Power Door Lock switches
    new battery

    Partially working:

    ATC (and further checks of the HVAC system once that's installed)
    Power Door Motor for Driver side door
    Drivers Side seat Belt

    Once I get those working I need to go over the car thoroughly and check
    each option to verify it functions properly, then I'm going to have to
    find a decent mechanic to check out the engine and transmission
    (Previous owner said it slipped into Neutral twice within 400 miles of
    driving. Judging by the scent, I almost think it has the wrong
    transmission fluid in it). The AC will probably have to wait until
    Spring, however.

    As a trivial side note: On my 1993 Imperial, if you lifted the door
    handle of a locked door the interior lights would come on. I'm
    wondering if the LHS should do this, as well?

    G.Focker, Sep 14, 2006
  10. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    Excellent news...

    I tracked down the location where the park-lamp relay goes (thanks to you
    description,) and as I suspected, its's not there, nor do I see any wiring
    for it. Looks like another wiring job for me :(
    Well, that just might be some good news for you!
    Hope that clears up your control issues. Those actuator motors are a bitch
    to find. I was told by local Chrysler dealer that the recirculation
    actuator (the one I needed) was $65, and even then they couldn't be sure it
    was still available until they called about it. I guess it comes from a
    third-party manufacturer, yet can only be purchased through the dealer (or a
    scrap yard)... On top of that, they are bitch to get at to replace, though
    might not be too bad for you, since you said your already had the lower dash
    ripped apart/out.
    I wouldn't doubt that it is. Up until recently, the proper fluid was only
    available through the dealer, and I can't see that happening, considering
    the cost of the stuff through the dealer!
    I don't believe this is the case; I haven't seen one of these style cars do
    this yet. It MAY turn on when unlock the doors with the keys, as the only
    electrical connection is the one attached to the key switch for the alarm.
    I can confirm, however, that with the keyless entry, when you unlock the
    doors with that, the interior lights DO come on...
    FeMaster, Sep 14, 2006
  11. G.Focker

    Ken Weitzel Guest

    Hi John...

    Congrats on the work so far; good show!

    Just tried the interior lights on my 94 for you, maybe it's close

    Lifting the handle while locked does nothing - no alarm, no lights.

    Unlocking with the key does nothing either. Lifting the handle
    unlocked does nothing. Not until the door is actually physically
    ajar do the lights come on.

    On the other hand, unlocking with the fob does turn on the interior

    Take care.

    Ken Weitzel, Sep 14, 2006
  12. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    Yes, the PLR seems to be one of those things that was rare enough they
    didn't automatically run wiring for it. None of the salvage yards in my
    area even had a car with one in it. I ended up going to ebay for it.

    Yes I was skimming some info about all this and it doesn't sound fun at all.
    It seems like one area where Chrysler could have made it a little
    easier to service. :-(
    Yes, and these transmissions seems particularly touchy if the
    discussions around allpar.com or dodgeintrepid.net are anything to go
    Okay, probably just not a feature they carried forward from the
    previous generation.

    G.Focker, Sep 14, 2006
  13. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    Thanks! So far, it's been a lot less painful than I feared it might be...

    Thanks for the confirmation. As I'd mentioned in my previous response,
    I guess it's just not an option they carried forward to the LH series.
    When I finally get a remote, I suppose I won't miss it. :)

    G.Focker, Sep 14, 2006
  14. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    Would I be able to get the part# from you? I'm not seeming to come across
    the relay on eBay myself. Is it just a standard relay like you'd find out
    under the hood?
    I can agree with that! I've done the heater core in a '86 Dodge Lancer, and
    even back then when there wasn't so much as far as electronics goes, it was
    a major pain to get the "Heater Box" out of the car to replace the core...
    I'm not sure if you have to actually remove the unit to change any or all of
    them, but in any case, I'm sure it's not going to a fun job should it need
    be done.
    I'll attest to that! When I bought my car, it drove perfectly. About
    2-weeks later, it started having the clutch shudder, when the
    Torque-converter clutch tried to engage. I narrowed it down to the idea
    that the wrong type of trans fluid was put in. Ended up doing a full flush,
    so I pulled the pan and changed the filter at the same time. Talk about
    expensive... $80-some dollars just for the fluid! (bought 3-gallons at
    about $27 a piece) At the time, the dealer was the only place to get the

    After the flush & filter change, I couldn't even get the car to drive.
    Would go into reverse fine, but did not want to go into drive. Would take
    anywhere from 10 seconds to 5 minutes to engage... Man was I not happy!

    Pulled the pan again, and removed the valve body & solenoid pack (which is
    INTERNAL to this transmission, can only be accessed by removing the valve
    body). I flushed the solenoid pack as best I could with carb cleaner,
    completely dismantled the valve body and cleaned that with carb cleaner.
    Neither looked like there was a problem, nor excessively dirty (there was a
    little darkness, like possible fine metal particles), but otherwise was in
    good shape.

    Put everything back together, put another new filter in (better quality one
    this time around), and the SAME problem.... Took it to a tranny shop, so
    they could scan the codes. Pointed to an internal mechanical failure! No
    repair, but offered to install a rebuild for $2800.00 Yeah, I didn't pay
    that much for the whole car!

    To make a longer story short, I had parked the car for about 6 months, while
    trying to figure out what to do with it. I got tired of driving around my
    rusty piece of crap, and decided that if the tranny is dead anyway, I just
    going to drive it as is, what was it going to hurt, It needed to be replaced
    anyway. Fired it up, and it has driven flawlessly ever since... No clue
    why letting it sit made it work, but I'm NOT complaining! :)
    FeMaster, Sep 14, 2006
  15. G.Focker

    Joe Guest

    For the record - Mine doesn't. I tried it.
    Joe, Sep 15, 2006
  16. G.Focker

    G.Focker Guest

    I didn't find any directly listed on ebay either... What I did was find
    a few people parting out their LHS/Intrepid/Concorde and asked them if
    they had the PLR and what they'd sell it for. I'll try to get you the
    part number the next time my head is under the dash again. lol It's
    basically the same size as the flasher/turn signal relay that shares
    that cubbyhole under the dash.

    Now on to more dire stuff. I swapped out the ATC head with one from a
    94 LHS and came up with the same errors as before - #23, 24, 32, 33,
    and 36. I can control the fan but only hot air comes out of the vents
    near the windshield.

    Can I get some detailed help in troubleshooting these errors? The data
    I've found so far seems too vague for me to coherently follow and I
    honestly am not sure what I'm looking for under the dash - The Blend
    and Mode Actuators or some such. Even some pics would be greatly
    appreciated. My Haynes manual is useless in this area. This seems like
    the first issue I've hit that is NOT going to be such an easy/quick fix.

    Much thanks!


    G.Focker, Sep 16, 2006
  17. G.Focker

    Ken Weitzel Guest

    Hi John....

    This may be helpful ?


    Might save you a little troubleshooting time... guess
    Chrysler wanted to save a foot or so of wire; all the door
    motors have one common wire; they switch this between
    B+ and ground to reverse directions. A side effect of that
    is that only one door can be operating at a time. Guess it
    happens quickly enough that we don't notice. But it makes me
    wonder... if the first chosen to move doesn't, does that mean
    that errors will be returned for all? Dunno, worth thinking
    about, seeing one of yours is returning "stalled"

    Take care.

    Ken Weitzel, Sep 16, 2006
  18. G.Focker

    FeMaster Guest

    OK. I'll see what I can come up with. I'd still appreciate a part number
    when you get the opportunity, thanks..
    The ATC codes are stored in the BCM. They are permanent, like the BCM
    codes, until cleared. According to the service manual, you will need to
    pull power from the BCM to reset the codes. It indicates that the battery
    connection should be removed for 10 minutes, though from my experience it
    usually takes a little longer. Once reset, give it another go and see if
    you are still getting the same codes.
    I'll see what I can get for you, but it won't until Monday afternoon that I
    can go into any detail here. The manual makes reference to troubleshooting
    through the use of the scantool, which I'm sure you don't personally have
    access to...

    I'll take a look at the wiring diagrams and what-not, and hopefully through
    that we'll be able to test out the door motors. I see that each of the
    units you are having issues with have 5-wires a piece (unless that changed
    before the '97 model year).

    I'll also try to get some scans of the heater box, and what the actuators
    look like for you...

    In the mean time, there is a WHITE, 10-wire, connector somewhere near the
    lower right side of the heater/AC box. This is the common connector that
    runs between each heater/AC door motor, and the BLACK connector on the BCM.
    Check this WHITE connector for crusty/dirty connections.
    FeMaster, Sep 17, 2006
  19. G.Focker

    Joe Guest

    While we're waiting, I'll comment. The a/c mode, temperature, and recirc
    dampers are controlled by 3 stepper motors. You probably know that. Two of
    them (temp and mode) are on the bottom of the a/c box, right in the middle
    of the car. They may have gone under water. QUESTION - when you do
    diagnostic mode, do those motors move? I mean, does air blow out of other
    vents, not just the defrost? They should cycle when you run diagnostics,
    and air should move to different vents. I am too lazy to look at my manual,
    but you can spot the mode door easily enough. It's the one with a lot of
    cams hooked to it to move multiple dampers. The temperature motor just
    moves one damper.

    They're not all that expensive, or at least compared to the front engine
    cradle mounts, 8 simple hunks of rubber for $50 each = $400. They're cheap
    compared to that.
    Joe, Sep 18, 2006
  20. G.Focker

    DeserTBoB Guest

    Sidebar to this "flood car" story:

    The California Dept of Motor Vehicles and the Los Angeles County
    Sheriff have put out a bulletin about scam artists selling "near mint"
    fairly new cars that were submerged by Katrina in and around New
    Orleans. Since these are all one and two year old cars when they were
    submerged, they all have the same basic problems that we've seen here,
    and worse.

    According to DMV, the scammers are retitling the cars in other
    southern states with lax record keeping and/or lack of salvage titles
    BEFORE trying to move them to California for sale mostly on "sled
    lots" with shady operators in poorer/more crime ridden areas of LA and
    the county. The retitling hides the "salvage" status, since many
    southern states don't have such a thing as a "salvage title," and then
    they're trucked to California and the Northeast to try to get higher
    prices. Caveat emptor. The problem here is that none of this is
    really illegal, except that most dealers will try to hide the car's
    history as much as possible, which can be prosecuted as fraud.
    Louisiana has one of the loosest and worst kept vehicle records
    systems in the nation, so tracing these waterlogged trashmobiles is
    difficult, if not impossible, even with Carfax.

    One thing I'd think they'd have a real tough time getting rid
    of...that smell. Can't ya smell that smell???
    DeserTBoB, Sep 18, 2006
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