1997 LHS Alarm and Electrical issues...

Yeah, it was a flood vehicle... He's trying to resurrect it...

 

Excellent! I see that in my previous reply I didn't need to give you the
details, as you already have them... Now maybe you can help me...
What's the best way to get at this without pulling the whole dash out like
you have done??

Thanks!

 

Yes, this is a flood vehicle - from the Marietta/Macksburg Ohio flood
in September 2004. Water got part way up the lower dash between the
radio and ATC. A salvage yard cleaned it up, replaced carpet, etc but
didn't touch the electrical issues and then it sat in someone auto
garage for 2 years.

Luckily, other than a bad BCM, it's all been tracking down and
replacing relays at this point to get major systems working.

 

I imagine if you stick your head under the drivers side dash you might
be able to see this sucker peeking out. It's attached via a screw to
the same spot where a plug holds the lower corner of the fuse box in
place. I haven't removed mine yet but it looks like you can just
unscrew it, unclip it and be off with it.

John

 

Yes, I've noticed this. Looks like you can get a rebuilt one for $59
plus shipping.

From what someone else said, it sounds like all the motors are on a
frame that can be detached from one seat and re-attached to mine. I
still find it horribly "coincidental" that all the same motors died on
each seat, leaving the same working motor behind (forward/backward).
I'm not surprised they would be water damaged but what are the odds of
them being damaged in exactly the same way?

 

Yeah, I've just read a small section in the manual that deals with that. It
does appear that they can be swapped out as a unit...

That does seem a little strange... Maybe you should see if you can access
the wiring harness that plugs into the back of the control unit on the side
of the seat. Maybe the controls are crusty, and for some reason it just
happens that the ones that aren't working are the same for both sides, maybe
something to do with the construction or something...

If you pull the seat, I can give you pin continuity check data for testing
the switch assembly... Might just save a little money if it turns out to
the controls instead...

 

Sounds good... It's raining like mad today, and the garage is occupied by
another "project", so it'll have to wait for another day...

If you finally do get to it, and get it, grab the part number for me, as I'm
sure that my vehicle won't have this relay. Probably doesn't even have the
wiring for it.. Fun fun! Another wiring job at hand!

 

How's the repairs going. It's been a few days, thought I'd inquire...

 

Thanks for asking!

Since I last wrote, I tracked down a Park Lamp Relay for $5 and
installed it. Parking lights and dash lights now activate when turning
on Auto headlights. I, also, tracked down an Amplifier for $18 to
replace the one in the trunk - and the radio and all speakers function
perfectly!

Earlier tonight I was playing around with the power seat switch to
attempt to diagnose whether it's the switch or the motors that are
defective. I'd come to the conclusion that it was the motors but when I
plugged the connector back in, the seat back motor sprang to life. I'm
now thinking it must be corrosion in the connectors so I'll attempt to
clean those in the next day or so and see what happens.

Meanwhile I have a rebuilt ATC on order.

So, let's see...

So far, working/replaced:
BCM
several relays
Alarm
Horn
Auto Headlight/Park Lights
Power Door Lock switches
new battery

Partially working:
Seats

Needed:
ATC (and further checks of the HVAC system once that's installed)
Power Door Motor for Driver side door
Drivers Side seat Belt
Remote

Once I get those working I need to go over the car thoroughly and check
each option to verify it functions properly, then I'm going to have to
find a decent mechanic to check out the engine and transmission
(Previous owner said it slipped into Neutral twice within 400 miles of
driving. Judging by the scent, I almost think it has the wrong
transmission fluid in it). The AC will probably have to wait until
Spring, however.

As a trivial side note: On my 1993 Imperial, if you lifted the door
handle of a locked door the interior lights would come on. I'm
wondering if the LHS should do this, as well?

John

 

Excellent news...

I tracked down the location where the park-lamp relay goes (thanks to you
description,) and as I suspected, its's not there, nor do I see any wiring
for it. Looks like another wiring job for me

Well, that just might be some good news for you!

Hope that clears up your control issues. Those actuator motors are a bitch
to find. I was told by local Chrysler dealer that the recirculation
actuator (the one I needed) was $65, and even then they couldn't be sure it
was still available until they called about it. I guess it comes from a
third-party manufacturer, yet can only be purchased through the dealer (or a
scrap yard)... On top of that, they are bitch to get at to replace, though
might not be too bad for you, since you said your already had the lower dash
ripped apart/out.

I wouldn't doubt that it is. Up until recently, the proper fluid was only
available through the dealer, and I can't see that happening, considering
the cost of the stuff through the dealer!

I don't believe this is the case; I haven't seen one of these style cars do
this yet. It MAY turn on when unlock the doors with the keys, as the only
electrical connection is the one attached to the key switch for the alarm.
I can confirm, however, that with the keyless entry, when you unlock the
doors with that, the interior lights DO come on...

 

Hi John...

Congrats on the work so far; good show!

Just tried the interior lights on my 94 for you, maybe it's close
enough.

Lifting the handle while locked does nothing - no alarm, no lights.

Unlocking with the key does nothing either. Lifting the handle
unlocked does nothing. Not until the door is actually physically
ajar do the lights come on.

On the other hand, unlocking with the fob does turn on the interior
lights.

Take care.

Ken

 

Yes, the PLR seems to be one of those things that was rare enough they
didn't automatically run wiring for it. None of the salvage yards in my
area even had a car with one in it. I ended up going to ebay for it.

Yes I was skimming some info about all this and it doesn't sound fun at all.
It seems like one area where Chrysler could have made it a little
easier to service. :-(

Yes, and these transmissions seems particularly touchy if the
discussions around allpar.com or dodgeintrepid.net are anything to go
by....

Okay, probably just not a feature they carried forward from the
previous generation.

John

 

Thanks! So far, it's been a lot less painful than I feared it might be...

Thanks for the confirmation. As I'd mentioned in my previous response,
I guess it's just not an option they carried forward to the LH series.
When I finally get a remote, I suppose I won't miss it.



John

 

Would I be able to get the part# from you? I'm not seeming to come across
the relay on eBay myself. Is it just a standard relay like you'd find out
under the hood?

I can agree with that! I've done the heater core in a '86 Dodge Lancer, and
even back then when there wasn't so much as far as electronics goes, it was
a major pain to get the "Heater Box" out of the car to replace the core...
I'm not sure if you have to actually remove the unit to change any or all of
them, but in any case, I'm sure it's not going to a fun job should it need
be done.

I'll attest to that! When I bought my car, it drove perfectly. About
2-weeks later, it started having the clutch shudder, when the
Torque-converter clutch tried to engage. I narrowed it down to the idea
that the wrong type of trans fluid was put in. Ended up doing a full flush,
so I pulled the pan and changed the filter at the same time. Talk about
expensive... $80-some dollars just for the fluid! (bought 3-gallons at
about $27 a piece) At the time, the dealer was the only place to get the
fluid.

After the flush & filter change, I couldn't even get the car to drive.
Would go into reverse fine, but did not want to go into drive. Would take
anywhere from 10 seconds to 5 minutes to engage... Man was I not happy!

Pulled the pan again, and removed the valve body & solenoid pack (which is
INTERNAL to this transmission, can only be accessed by removing the valve
body). I flushed the solenoid pack as best I could with carb cleaner,
completely dismantled the valve body and cleaned that with carb cleaner.
Neither looked like there was a problem, nor excessively dirty (there was a
little darkness, like possible fine metal particles), but otherwise was in
good shape.

Put everything back together, put another new filter in (better quality one
this time around), and the SAME problem.... Took it to a tranny shop, so
they could scan the codes. Pointed to an internal mechanical failure! No
repair, but offered to install a rebuild for $2800.00 Yeah, I didn't pay
that much for the whole car!

To make a longer story short, I had parked the car for about 6 months, while
trying to figure out what to do with it. I got tired of driving around my
rusty piece of crap, and decided that if the tranny is dead anyway, I just
going to drive it as is, what was it going to hurt, It needed to be replaced
anyway. Fired it up, and it has driven flawlessly ever since... No clue
why letting it sit made it work, but I'm NOT complaining!

 

For the record - Mine doesn't. I tried it.

 

I didn't find any directly listed on ebay either... What I did was find
a few people parting out their LHS/Intrepid/Concorde and asked them if
they had the PLR and what they'd sell it for. I'll try to get you the
part number the next time my head is under the dash again. lol It's
basically the same size as the flasher/turn signal relay that shares
that cubbyhole under the dash.


Now on to more dire stuff. I swapped out the ATC head with one from a
94 LHS and came up with the same errors as before - #23, 24, 32, 33,
and 36. I can control the fan but only hot air comes out of the vents
near the windshield.

Can I get some detailed help in troubleshooting these errors? The data
I've found so far seems too vague for me to coherently follow and I
honestly am not sure what I'm looking for under the dash - The Blend
and Mode Actuators or some such. Even some pics would be greatly
appreciated. My Haynes manual is useless in this area. This seems like
the first issue I've hit that is NOT going to be such an easy/quick fix.

Much thanks!

John




John

 

Hi John....

This may be helpful ?

http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes-climate.html

Might save you a little troubleshooting time... guess
Chrysler wanted to save a foot or so of wire; all the door
motors have one common wire; they switch this between
B+ and ground to reverse directions. A side effect of that
is that only one door can be operating at a time. Guess it
happens quickly enough that we don't notice. But it makes me
wonder... if the first chosen to move doesn't, does that mean
that errors will be returned for all? Dunno, worth thinking
about, seeing one of yours is returning "stalled"

Take care.

Ken

 

OK. I'll see what I can come up with. I'd still appreciate a part number
when you get the opportunity, thanks..

The ATC codes are stored in the BCM. They are permanent, like the BCM
codes, until cleared. According to the service manual, you will need to
pull power from the BCM to reset the codes. It indicates that the battery
connection should be removed for 10 minutes, though from my experience it
usually takes a little longer. Once reset, give it another go and see if
you are still getting the same codes.

I'll see what I can get for you, but it won't until Monday afternoon that I
can go into any detail here. The manual makes reference to troubleshooting
through the use of the scantool, which I'm sure you don't personally have
access to...

I'll take a look at the wiring diagrams and what-not, and hopefully through
that we'll be able to test out the door motors. I see that each of the
units you are having issues with have 5-wires a piece (unless that changed
before the '97 model year).

I'll also try to get some scans of the heater box, and what the actuators
look like for you...

In the mean time, there is a WHITE, 10-wire, connector somewhere near the
lower right side of the heater/AC box. This is the common connector that
runs between each heater/AC door motor, and the BLACK connector on the BCM.
Check this WHITE connector for crusty/dirty connections.

 

While we're waiting, I'll comment. The a/c mode, temperature, and recirc
dampers are controlled by 3 stepper motors. You probably know that. Two of
them (temp and mode) are on the bottom of the a/c box, right in the middle
of the car. They may have gone under water. QUESTION - when you do
diagnostic mode, do those motors move? I mean, does air blow out of other
vents, not just the defrost? They should cycle when you run diagnostics,
and air should move to different vents. I am too lazy to look at my manual,
but you can spot the mode door easily enough. It's the one with a lot of
cams hooked to it to move multiple dampers. The temperature motor just
moves one damper.

They're not all that expensive, or at least compared to the front engine
cradle mounts, 8 simple hunks of rubber for $50 each = $400. They're cheap
compared to that.

 

Sidebar to this "flood car" story:

The California Dept of Motor Vehicles and the Los Angeles County
Sheriff have put out a bulletin about scam artists selling "near mint"
fairly new cars that were submerged by Katrina in and around New
Orleans. Since these are all one and two year old cars when they were
submerged, they all have the same basic problems that we've seen here,
and worse.

According to DMV, the scammers are retitling the cars in other
southern states with lax record keeping and/or lack of salvage titles
BEFORE trying to move them to California for sale mostly on "sled
lots" with shady operators in poorer/more crime ridden areas of LA and
the county. The retitling hides the "salvage" status, since many
southern states don't have such a thing as a "salvage title," and then
they're trucked to California and the Northeast to try to get higher
prices. Caveat emptor. The problem here is that none of this is
really illegal, except that most dealers will try to hide the car's
history as much as possible, which can be prosecuted as fraud.
Louisiana has one of the loosest and worst kept vehicle records
systems in the nation, so tracing these waterlogged trashmobiles is
difficult, if not impossible, even with Carfax.

One thing I'd think they'd have a real tough time getting rid
of...that smell. Can't ya smell that smell???